Biden now opposes Hyde Amendment

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phil19034 said:
The man needs to be excommunicated and so do the rest of them.
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I agree with you.

But I fear that it wouldn’t mean anything to those who receive excommunication for voting for abortion rights, gay marriage, etc.

Obviously they don’t respect the teachings of Holy Mother Church because they publicly promoted the sinful acts as “good” and “necessary” and “loving,” and they acted upon their beliefs by voting for these acts.

It’s possible that their guilt is lessened because they have been subject to heretical teaching by a rogue priest who should be stripped of his clerical powers by the Church, but for some reason, is still in the pulpit and still standing at the altar consecrating Holy Communion and distributing it to his sheep.

But our country’s leaders are all highly-intelligent people and they should be able to compare the teachings of their priest to the Catechism of the Catholic Church and recognize that the priest is preaching evil, and that they must disassociate themselves from evil if they are to have a hope of heaven.

No, I think they honestly don’t care what the Church says. To them, the Church is a warm fuzzy in their their life, in the same category as their pet dog or their shiny car (battery-powered, of course!)–something to make them feel all secure and spiritual and high-minded.

If they were ex-communicated, they would find one of the heretical parishes, or attend a Protestant church that supports their beliefs, and claim with great piety, “We all worship the same God.”

And they would also say, “How can the bishops ex-communicate anyone when for years, they ignore the sexual abuse in their own camp?” Sigh.

So sad.

We must pray for these politicians, that God will work in their lives to change their hearts.

There are quite a few stories of people who were solidly pro-choice who have changed their minds when something happened to re-arrange all their thoughts about abortion. Sometimes it’s something very mundane, like seeing a pregnant woman and suddenly realizing that “OMG, it really IS a human being!”. And sometimes it’s something very dramatic, such as God coming to them in a terrible nightmare and making it very clear that they are sinning against Him and against all mankind by promoting abortion as a “right.”

We must pray. I must pray.
 
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I’m with you!

I have said on these boards before and stick by it, I will not vote for Trump or Republican. There is more than abortion to care about and I am not a single issue voter.

I will vote Democrat in the 2020 election.
 
JSAD said:
Why?I ask because I’m really curious.

I don’t understand the point in voting 3rd party? What does it really accomplish other than bragging rights?
Does Anyone remember the 3rd party candidates from the 2016 election?

Ultimately you have to ‘endure’ the consequences of either of the Democrat or republican.
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I mean, how much of my vote is going to matter if I vote for one of the big 2 parties? Probably not much. And if my conscience won’t let me vote for the Dems or Repubs, then I’ve got to vote third-party.

I think it’s much more of a social stand to vote for a third-party candidate then to follow the herd and choose a satisfactory major-party candidate. Imagine if everyone who was dissatisfied by the major parties voted third-party.
 
Thanks. That makes sense(although i don’t necessarily agree). I believe 3rd party candidates need to be given a chance to demonstrate their policies &platform on a wider scale . Inviting them to the debates or maybe having a ‘3rd party primary’ may be one way to go.
 
I think Syllabus of Errors focuses on “public” part, whereas Dignitatis humanae focuses mostly on private one. I agree it should be explained better, especially to take care of SSPX dissent it causes (and I understand that it does). What does that have to do with this thread though?
 
OrbisNonSufficit said:
What does that have to do with this thread though?
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The influence of Father John Courtney Murray on the idea that Catholics can be personally opposed to abortion but still be pro-choice when it comes to legislation. (Biden’s position?) As a reference point, Father Murray was also instrumental in drafting the Document Dignitatis humanae.
 
I was supporting him too. I still sort of am, but this bothers me. I wish there was one, just one pro life democrat out there who had a shot at winning. Heck, I’d even settle for a pro life democrat who didn’t have a shot of winning at this point.
 
OKComputer said:
I was supporting him too. I still sort of am, but this bothers me. I wish there was one, just one pro life democrat out there who had a shot at winning. Heck, I’d even settle for a pro life democrat who didn’t have a shot of winning at this point.
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Is there any possibility that you and others who support the Democratic Party could petition Dan Lipinski, Illinois State Congressman, to make a fun for the Presidential nomination?

The current crop of Democrats will do nothing to temper Pres. Trump’s negative traits.–But running against Rep. Lipinski could possibly force Pres. Trump to reign some of the more extreme uncouthness.

It would be a pleasure to see the media cope with TWO pro-life candidates running for President!

I personally think that the Democratic machine would force Rep. Lipinski to resign from the Democratic party if he runs–Democrats are incredibly intolerant of diversity.

 
@Peeps, I wish that was possible. Sadly, at this moment, there just aren’t many pro life democrats out there. Pro life democrats. The few, the proud…well, mostly just the few.
 
I never viewed him as being credible on pro-life causes as it was. Despite being “personally opposed” he was always going to be on a slippery slope if he wanted to gain ground in his own party.
 
Biden is of course trying to appear as progressive as he can. But his sudden shift on abortion will not go unnoticed by many Democrats, who, whatever one might think of their beliefs and ideology, are not stupid. By doing this, he shows himself as a typical hypocritical politician rather than a man of principle, which is a shame. He must want the nomination of his party very much.
 
Bataar said:
He claims to be, but he is not. In order to be a Catholic, one has to believe every church doctrine. To dismiss even one of them removes the person from the church.
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No, it does not. People are members of the Catholic Church when they are baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church. If they leave the Catholic Church, or do not practice the faith according to the Church precepts (such as going to Mass on Sundays, etc.) then they are “lapsed Catholics” or “fallen away Catholics” or “nonpracticing Catholics”. They do not suddenly become un-Catholic.

Where did you get the idea that not believing in “every church doctrine” removes the person from the membership of the Church? Do you have a source for this or is it something from your own mind?
 
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Sadly, the Dem candidates (at least the ones who have a chance in the primary) are kinda dreadful. I have a hard time seeing any of them defeating Trump in the general.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
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Bataar:
He claims to be, but he is not. In order to be a Catholic, one has to believe every church doctrine. To dismiss even one of them removes the person from the church.
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No, it does not. People are members of the Catholic Church when they are baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church. If they leave the Catholic Church, or do not practice the faith according to the Church precepts (such as going to Mass on Sundays, etc.) then they are “lapsed Catholics” or “fallen away Catholics” or “nonpracticing Catholics”. They do not suddenly become un-Catholic.

Where did you get the idea that not believing in “every church doctrine” removes the person from the membership of the Church? Do you have a source for this or is it something from your own mind?
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Canon 1364 reads: “An apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sentenciae excommunication …”

Canon 751 defines these three crimes: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after Baptism of a truth which must be believed by divine and Catholic faith. Apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith. Schism is the withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or from communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

Biden has obviously and publicly denied truth which must be upheld by all Catholics. This makes him, according to Canon law, a heretic which, also according to Canon law, excommunicates him.
 
It’s highly unlikely Joe Biden has committed any of those things you list, especially since he is still with all probability considering himself a Catholic, attending Mass and receiving Holy Communion in apparent good faith somewhere in the USA. (Same as he’s been doing for decades of supporting questionable legislation.) From a recent Crux article:
Biden and his wife are both Roman Catholics and regularly attend Mass at St. Joseph’s on the Brandywine in Greenville, Delaware. He wears a rosary on his left wrist, a gift his younger son, Hunter, gave to his older son, the late Beau Biden, after a visit to the shrine of Our Lady of Guadalupe.
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https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2019/04...atican-biden-has-a-rocky-past-with-us-church/

He would probably tell you that he himself does not doubt the truths of the Catholic Faith but feels that from a political and civil law standpoint he can’t force his beliefs on others. At any rate, you’re not his confessor and don’t live in his head, nor do you fully understand how the church applies canon law.

We see this mistake all the time on here. Catholics think that because other Catholics disagree with some teaching or have a doubt, they’ve incurred automatic excommunication. It’s quite tiresome and also wrong, but I presume that those who like to feel more holy than others will just continue along with the wrong-headedness.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
We see this mistake all the time on here. Catholics think that because other Catholics disagree with some teaching or have a doubt, they’ve incurred automatic excommunication. It’s quite tiresome and also wrong, but I presume that those who like to feel more holy than others will just continue along with the wrong-headedness.
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Would performing gay marriages not excommunicate him?

Regardless yes he’s technically Catholic but in practical terms he is not living in agreement with his faith or showing repentance. Therefore he is not in communion with the Church, and, in my opinion, should cease to identify as Catholic.
 
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