Biden now opposes Hyde Amendment

Status
Not open for further replies.
I would think performing gay civil marriages is a sin as well as a scandal, and I would expect his priest to have a talk with him. (Whether this actually happened or not, I have no way of knowing.)

But it’s a civil marriage; the Church doesn’t recognize it and Biden didn’t claim to marry these people in the church, or in any church or in a religious capacity. He performed a civil legal function. If the Church is going to start excommunicating Catholics for performing civil legal functions that are against Church teaching (not just on gays and gay marriage but on a whole bunch of issues such as death penalty, divorce, contraception etc), then we would have mass excommunications of Catholics in legal and government positions, and Catholics basically couldn’t serve in those positions.

If Biden had held himself out as a Universal Life Church Minister and claimed to be marrying the gay people in a religious capacity, then I could see him committing one of the excommunicable offenses.
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
No, it does not. People are members of the Catholic Church when they are baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church. If they leave the Catholic Church, or do not practice the faith according to the Church precepts (such as going to Mass on Sundays, etc.) then they are “lapsed Catholics” or “fallen away Catholics” or “nonpracticing Catholics”. They do not suddenly become un-Catholic.
Click to expand...
Thanks for clarifying. I thought this was the case, but I wasn’t sure.

I do think that people like Pres. Biden, who claim to be Catholic but advocate practices that are in opposition to Catholic Church teachings, “heap coals of fire on their heads” and put themselves in danger of hell.

Not only do these people weaken their own souls and hurt their ability to discern right and wrong, but they also weaken the souls of other Christians who are poorly-catechized or weak-willed.

In addition, Catholics like Vice Pres. Biden definitely hurt evangelism of non-Catholics who receive a distorted and incorrect version of what the Catholic Church teaches.
 
All of what you say is true, but Biden and Kaine and Cuomo and all the Kennedys who openly cheated on their wives for years, divorced, remarried etc are still Catholic. They are just sinful Catholics.
And in being sinful Catholics, they are no different from generations of other leaders who had mistresses and engaged in fraud and revenge murder and all kinds of other rotten stuff. It doesn’t make it okay but it is nothing new either.

The Catholic Church is a hospital for sinners. We don’t like to kick people out unless the person is trying to wreck the Church, or has already left the Church (for instance by publicly starting another church, or publicly joining another church) or, in the case of clergy or religious, have directly disobeyed an order of a superior. We don’t just keep perfect exemplary members.
 
Last edited:
Bataar said:
40.png
Tis_Bearself:
40.png
Bataar:
He claims to be, but he is not. In order to be a Catholic, one has to believe every church doctrine. To dismiss even one of them removes the person from the church.
Click to expand...
No, it does not. People are members of the Catholic Church when they are baptized and confirmed into the Catholic Church. If they leave the Catholic Church, or do not practice the faith according to the Church precepts (such as going to Mass on Sundays, etc.) then they are “lapsed Catholics” or “fallen away Catholics” or “nonpracticing Catholics”. They do not suddenly become un-Catholic.

Where did you get the idea that not believing in “every church doctrine” removes the person from the membership of the Church? Do you have a source for this or is it something from your own mind?
Click to expand...
Canon 1364 reads: “An apostate from the faith, a heretic, or a schismatic incurs a latae sentenciae excommunication …”

Canon 751 defines these three crimes: “Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after Baptism of a truth which must be believed by divine and Catholic faith. Apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith. Schism is the withdrawal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or from communion with the members of the Church subject to him.”

Biden has obviously and publicly denied truth which must be upheld by all Catholics. This makes him, according to Canon law, a heretic which, also according to Canon law, excommunicates him.
Click to expand...
I think you also have to have full knowledge that the crime is excommunicable to actually be hit with that penalty upon committing that crime.
 
What does that have to do with whether he is still a Church member? My comments were directed to the guy who claimed Biden had excommunicated himself from the church somehow. I simply said no such thing occurred.

I couldn’t care less what people think of Biden. I probably won’t vote for him myself because of the recent scandals and what seems to be lack of sound judgment on his part. But he’s still a member of the Catholic Church unless he either publicly joins another church or his Bishop kicks him out with some public statement.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
Biden Reverses Stance, Now Opposes Hyde Restriction On Abortion Funding : NPR

There goes the one shred of pro-life credibility that he once had.

And the sad thing is that he is still the most conservative Democratic candidate who could realistically be nominated. Tulsi Gabbard has in the past taken somewhat conservative stances on various issues, but she probably will not get the nomination (VP is a possibility).
Click to expand...
Here’s Joe on the issues http://www.ontheissues.org/Joe_Biden.htm BEFORE he did his flip flop

Dem party platform https://democrats.org/about/party-platform/

Appointing Judges

Securing Reproductive Health, Rights, and Justice

Women and Girls

It is the party of death,
 
Last edited:
Tis_Bearself said:
What does that have to do with whether he is still a Church member? My comments were directed to the guy who claimed Biden had excommunicated himself from the church somehow. I simply said no such thing occurred.

I couldn’t care less what people think of Biden. I probably won’t vote for him myself because of the recent scandals and what seems to be lack of sound judgment on his part. But he’s still a member of the Catholic Church unless he either publicly joins another church or his Bishop kicks him out with some public statement.
Click to expand...
Unless you claim Biden is completely ignorant of the church’s Infallible teaching on abortion, gay marriage and potential other issues, Biden is a manifest heretic according to Canon law. Canon law also states that a heretic cannot be a member of the church.
 
Fine, whatever. Please be sure you send letters to Biden’s pastor and bishop in case they missed something. I’m sure they’ll thank you for letting them know.
 
I do not trust this guy. Over the years, he has flip-flopped on many, many issues.

 
JoeShlabotnik said:
I do not trust this guy. Over the years, he has flip-flopped on many, many issues.
Click to expand...
He may be taking a conservative, pro-life stance just to get elected. He may actually believe in this, or he may not. Perhaps Melania, in spite of the irregularity of their marriage, has had a good influence on him. He may have had a change of heart. In the end, no one can answer that question but him.

I support him, first and foremost, because he has so far appointed two conservative, apparently pro-life Supreme Court justices, with the possibility of appointing more, especially if he is re-elected in 2020. He has flaws. So do we all. He can be crude and he can be boorish. Or he can be very gracious.

As far as Supreme Court justices, though, we all need to be aware that ultimately their task is to interpret the Constitution. Depending on the case at hand, a Justice may decide in a way other than we would like to see. Abortion is not specifically addressed in the Constitution.
 
Last edited:
JoeShlabotnik said:
I do not trust this guy. Over the years, he has flip-flopped on many, many issues.

Click to expand...
  1. well, thats why I didn’t vote for him during primary.
  2. during presidential election, I never vote for individuals - I vote only for platform / ticket. But also, I could never trust Hillary either.
Both tickets sucked. So for me, I choose the one who was saying the right things vs the ticket who was flat out saying that our religious view must change
 
phil19034 said:
So for me, I choose the one who was saying the right things vs the ticket who was flat out saying that our religious view must change
Click to expand...
Just out of curiosity, which one was which? I didn’t think either Trump or Hillary said anything about changing one’s religious view.
 
phil19034 said:
Both tickets sucked. So for me, I choose the one who was saying the right things vs the ticket who was flat out saying that our religious view must change
Click to expand...
I think we Christians must balance wisdom with righteousness in order to be effective witnesses in this world.

I did NOT say that we must “compromise” righteousness. In the case of an election, we have to remember, as many have said in this thread, that all men and women are sinful, and even if a person is totally righteous without sin, they still might be lacking in the ability to be a good politician (e.g., Pres. Jimmy Carter), which will ultimately hurt many people.

At this time in the U.S. history, abortion is taking the lives of thousands of people every year–it’s a literal holocaust. It is imperative that Christians vote for the people who are willing to support with words and action a PRO-LIFE AGENDA! Even if the pro-life policy is not the literal end of all abortion in this country, if only a few lives are saved, that is better than the continuance of pro-abortion policies that take so many innocent lives.

If you study world history, you will see that many times, uncouth and sinful people have been used by God to bring about His Will. It seems that sometimes, their very uncouthness makes them immune to the constant pressure and criticism from those who advocate evil, and gives them the intestinal fortitude to go forward with a righteous course in spite of criticism, threats, and predictions of doom for the nation.

I can understand why a Catholic/Christian would vote for a Democratic candidate rather than a Republican when the issue is the economy, or education, or diplomacy with other nations.

But to willingly vote for a Democratic candidate knowing that if that candidate wins, abortion will continue to be the law of the land–I find that hard to stomach.

As for the 3rd Party candidate–again, if the sensible voter knows full well that the 3rd Party candidate has no chance and that votes for that candidate will take votes away from the uncouth Republican and that the Democratic candidate WILL win, and abortion will continue to be the law of the land–again, I find this approach to voting unconscionable. It’s not “righteous” to deliberately and knowingly allow evil to continue unchallenged in the nation because of intolerance for a person’s personal sins.

If the only doctor in your town was a sinning adulterer, would you refuse to take your sick child to that doctor? That’s what you are doing when you vote “against” candidates that pledge to support righteous pro-life policies (and follow through on that promise!) even though they themselves have been guilty of public personal sins.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top