Biden, Pelosi to Pope Francis’ inaugural mass

[MichaelTDoyle]

He sent the highest level politicians…that are Catholic, should he have sent Ryan, a loser? Should he have sent Santorum, another loser? That would have been rude, tho I don’t think that anyone would have noticed. It’s possible, and in fact likely that Obama has no idea what the status of their souls are, which is good because it’s none of his business anyway. They profess to be Catholic, it’s good enough for him and for me. (LOL, as if they care one or other about you OR me!!)

It’s not whether or not their Catholic, it is that they support doctors killing children in the womb of mothers. I’d rather they sent someone non Catholic, then send someone who supports the legalized killing of children in the womb who claims to share my faith. This has been an ongoing grave scandal.

Public actions and statements that bespeak evil as good are to be judged and corrected. That is our duty as disciples of Christ; is it not a spiritual work of mercy?

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

But the ‘common sense’ is not something scriptural, or taught by the Church. With that said, correction should be evident in public figures. It’s not ours to demand public penance, or confession.

1983 CIC 915. Those who have been excommunicated or interdicted after the imposition or declaration of the penalty and others obstinately persevering in manifest grave sin are not to be admitted to holy communion. (See also CCEO 712)

Olim: 1917 CIC 855. § 1. All those publicly unworthy are to be barred from the Eucharist, such as excommunicates, those interdicted, and those manifestly infamous, **unless their penitence and emendation are shown and they have satisfied beforehand the public scandal **[they caused]. § 2. But occult sinners, if they ask secretly and the minister knows they are unrepentant, should be refused; but not, however, if they ask publicly and they cannot be passed over without scandal. (See also: Canon Law Digest I: 408-409.)

You are exactly correct. I wonder how that correction of scandal would come? A pro-life vote, perhaps.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It’s not whether or not their Catholic, it is that they support doctors killing children in the womb of mothers. I’d rather they sent someone non Catholic, then send someone who supports the legalized killing of children in the womb who claims to share my faith. This has been an ongoing grave scandal.

Public actions and statements that bespeak evil as good are to be judged and corrected. That is our duty as disciples of Christ; is it not a spiritual work of mercy?

Doesn’t Christ say to approach your brother one on one first, for ‘fraternal correction?’

I don’t see correction happening on a public forum, anonymously.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

Doesn’t Christ say to approach your brother one on one first, for ‘fraternal correction?’

I don’t see correction happening on a public forum, anonymously.

He does. So how does that correct the public scandal?

The forum is for discussion of the issues. Not sure I understand. Who is correcting anonymously Democrat leaders on a public forum?

?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prooftext

Prooftexting (sometimes “proof-texting” or “proof texting”) is the practice of using isolated quotations from a document to establish a proposition. Using discrete quotations is generally seen as decontextualised. Critics note that such quotes may not accurately reflect the original intent of the author,[1] and that a document quoted in such a manner may not in fact support the proposition for which it was cited when read as a whole.[2][3][4][5]

 

[Margy1948]

Actually canon law requires it. But, yes, Church leaders decide whether to follow it. Not sure why they would want to not follow it in these circumstances, but considering the number of politiicians that are allowed to receive communion, it wouldn’t surprise me. Hopefully, the Pope will fix that once and for all.

I’m not so sure about Canon Law requiring it.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

But the ‘common sense’ is not something scriptural, or taught by the Church. With that said, correction should be evident in public figures. It’s not ours to demand public penance, or confession.

You raise good points. I am not demanding it, but I should think a corrected conscience would demand it of the person himself. That is the common sense of it, I think for restitution and for humility. I would hope I would do that if I found myself in such a situation.

lol like admitting I was wrong publically about requiring a public confession after you corrected me!

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

He does. So how does that correct the public scandal?

The forum is for discussion of the issues. Not sure I understand. Who is correcting anonymously Democrat leaders on a public forum?

No one is correcting anyone through a public forum, unless they are all participants. Our voice, Catholics, is known publicly, as a politician’s view is known publicly. Now, how do we go about correcting an erroneous view? Go, anonymously, on a public forum and attack them? Reading through, the two threads of the same topic, you will see there are those who have done just that.

I think our new Pope is aware of a politician’s view, or it will be made known to him, prior to meeting with them. He seems to be fairly blunt, and humble at the same time. Blunt enough to make his view of Church doctrines clear, and humble enough not to attack someone publicly. Sadly, there are those that have outright called for that type public humiliation, which I think would only distance one into their erroneous way, and reflect poorly on the Pope in the eyes of those with no preference on a view. He is the authoritative man of the entire Church. Let him be who the Holy Spirit has appointed, and learn from his example.

 

[Margy1948]

He does. So how does that correct the public scandal?

The forum is for discussion of the issues. Not sure I understand. Who is correcting anonymously Democrat leaders on a public forum?

?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prooftext

i fully understand his point, you cannot correct a brother from a public forum, and while it’s okay to discuss issues, the posts here are unkind and bullying towards two Catholics who have achieved much with their lives. Okay, so some of you folks don’t think that they are good Catholics, but what I see here is a lack of charity and that is no better than the actions of the people being criticized.
It makes me sad, esp on a Saturday night and one week before Holy week, when we should be taking our own inventories and not those of our neighbors.

 

[pete_29]

i fully understand his point, you cannot correct a brother from a public forum, and while it’s okay to discuss issues, the posts here are unkind and bullying towards two Catholics who have achieved much with their lives. Okay, so some of you folks don’t think that they are good Catholics, but what I see here is a lack of charity and that is no better than the actions of the people being criticized.
It makes me sad, esp on a Saturday night and one week before Holy week, when we should be taking our own inventories and not those of our neighbors.

Charity is calling Ryan and Santorum losers?

 

[Margy1948]

I’m just sayin’ public sinners would do well to think twice before presenting themselves in front of him to receive Our holy Lord.

And yes, public sin requires a public confession (little c) to repair the scandal caused by the Catholic who proclaims publicly that evil is good. The correction needs to be public for the sake of the ongoing formation of the consciences of the faithful. This is just common sense.

If that were so, and I disagree, then there would be no time for any other news or actions because all of us are so sinful.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Charity is calling Ryan and Santorum losers?

I would agree it’s not, and I would also agree that two wrongs don’t make a right. With that said, what is to prevent Ryan and Santorum to attend? What would the political ramifications be if they requested to attend with Biden and Pelosi, and be turned down by the administration that claims to be ‘reaching across the aisle?’ It seems moot to bring them up, if they have not voiced any intentions, or desires, one way or the other.

 

[Margy1948]

Ryan and Santorum can buy a ticket and go, they are free to do so.

So true, and it would be a nice family trip for Santorum, although I don’t think that Ryan should leave because he has work to do in the House. OTOH, why not? It’s the chance of a lifetime,
Maybe they can watch the whole thing on a big TV in the church hall, seems like it would be nice to watch with other Catholics.
You’re a sound thinker, Julianna, and kind.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

No one is correcting anyone through a public forum, unless they are all participants. Our voice, Catholics, is known publicly, as a politician’s view is known publicly. Now, how do we go about correcting an erroneous view? Go, anonymously, on a public forum and attack them? Reading through, the two threads of the same topic, you will see there are those who have done just that.

I think our new Pope is aware of a politician’s view, or it will be made known to him, prior to meeting with them. He seems to be fairly blunt, and humble at the same time. Blunt enough to make his view of Church doctrines clear, and humble enough not to attack someone publicly. Sadly, there are those that have outright called for that type public humiliation, which I think would only distance one into their erroneous way, and reflect poorly on the Pope in the eyes of those with no preference on a view. He is the authoritative man of the entire Church. Let him be who the Holy Spirit has appointed, and learn from his example.

Good points and interesting. I didn’t read the whole thread. I tend to be a bit self centered and paranoid, so I thought that was directed at me. At least I can say I’m not anonymous.

Did you read that earlier link I posted? That was a bold correction. I’m not sure he would not say something in his role as a shepherd.

I also wonder if humiliation-particularly if offered up–is not a great penance. When I feel my humiliation is afterwards when I get a clearer sense of reality (humility) if you will. No, I’m not talking about imposed humiliation. The nature of a conscience struggling toward the truth would provide opportunities enough. Humiliation itself is … can be profitable.

Humiliation is when I remember a sinful act and realize I am culpable. That is when I feel humiliation. Now I’m not talking about if someone pulls my pants down in public–that kind of innocent feeling in the victim is not what I would call humiliation, but embarrassment and hurt against their modesty. Just thinking out loud here.

 

[pete_29]

I would agree it’s not, and I would also agree that two wrongs don’t make a right. With that said, what is to prevent Ryan and Santorum to attend? What would the political ramifications be if they requested to attend with Biden and Pelosi, and be turned down by the administration that claims to be ‘reaching across the aisle?’ It seems moot to bring them up, if they have not voiced any intentions, or desires, one way or the other.

I wasn’t aware that you were the one that called them losers.

 

[Margy1948]

Charity is calling Ryan and Santorum losers?

Ryan lost the last election and I thought that Santorum did as well. I can’t say that I’m sure of that without checking it out, tho.

 

[Margy1948]

It sounds like landon13 was merely giving their opinion. Which by the way, I agree with.

The statement Julianna refers to was not qualified with the words “in my opinion” so it’s hard to know that,

 

[pete_29]

Ryan lost the last election and I thought that Santorum did as well. I can’t say that I’m sure of that without checking it out, tho.

So losing a stupid election make them losers. It must be nice to hate people with a clear conscience.

 

[MichaelTDoyle]

If that were so, and I disagree, then there would be no time for any other news or actions because all of us are so sinful.

Not all of us are “public” In fact very few of us are in this context.
Public in this context implies a proportional correction. This forum is not national news.

The speaker of the house proclaiming herself Catholic and supporting abortion laws is a grave scandal. It deserves equally public correction, doesn’t it?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I wasn’t aware that you were the one that called them losers.

I didn’t. I answered because I didn’t think it a big enough issue to handle as a part of the inquisition though, and thought that in doing so it offered a ‘gentle’ food for thought for all involved. I apologize for speaking out of turn.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

For me, personally, I would think that any Catholic would consider the Holy Father’s request to his fellow bishops in Argentina. He’s asked that they not spend the money to come to the ceremony, but donate the money to the poor instead. With such a request, it would seem to please him more to make donations in honor of his appointment, and have the heads of states give him a phone call to pay respects.