Bikini

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Ophelia23 said:
I personally think pointing out how women are enticing men by their lack of proper dress is just not the right approach to the problem. And it is a problem. But we all need to be responsible for the log in our own eye first before we point out the splinter in someone else’s. Simply pointing out that these girls are tempting you and/or other men to sin would be ineffective.

As a side note, modesty in women’s dress will not remove man’s temptation of the female body. This is evidenced by the fact that, even in culture where women must be covered completely except for their eyes, there is still an enormously high sexual crime rate against women. But I digress.

I always took the approach to first lead by example. My rule of thumb has always been, "If I can’t imagine wearing it with Mary with me, I won’t wear it. As women, we aren’t called to dress modestly only so that men will not be tempted by us. We are also called to modesty as a form of rejecting the world and embracing the humility of Christ.

Perfectly said! 👍
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I think a better approach might be to approach it with the idea of the marriage room (can’t remember the name) but the women veil those parts of the body which are part of procreative union. You tell women that this veil should only be lifted when you are married to your spouse. Until then veil that area of your body.

I think it is a lot deeper then this but get at this idea.
 
on_the_hill said:
It bothered you. Did it bother them? Do you think maybe they *wanted *to be approached? And moreover, I’m not entirely sure a bikini makes that much of a difference.

Be that as it may, it seems like this thread is focused on altering the behavior of the women for the benefit of the men. Now, I’m not at all saying that modesty should be thrown out the window. What I am saying is there’s a current of ‘change the outfit because of the way men react.’ How about saying, “Guys, it’s a bikini. Get over it.”

And I wish you’d not use the word “meat.” It’s a little unappetizing. How about “treating them as objects?”
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It is not focused on altering women. The way these men where treating my friends was not the way they Iike. Trust me when I say this. Also did I mention these people are like sisters to me?
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
And a lot of men don’t care what you wear.
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For many many if not most Christian men - a bikini is going to be something that will be in order “problematic” in the area of modesty. Now some may have high virtue and great custody of the senses so it does not present a personal problem for them - but it is of that order.

Women have a difficulty understanding this – just as us men have a difficulty understanding some aspects of being “a woman”…
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
And a lot of men don’t care what you wear. There is nothing sexy about a 17 year old in a softball uniform. Long pants, long socks, sleeves on my shirt.** I can see where a bikini can be tempting for guys**. I don’t see how unisex t-shirt and blue jeans is immodest, a maxi dress comes down to the floor and we all know blazers cover the body. Bermuda shorts come down to the knee. Guys really need to learn to control themselves. Most of the time, it isn’t what the girl is wearing, it is that people don’t teach their sons to respect women.
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Bookcat said:
For many many if not most Christian men - a bikini is going to be something that will be in order “problematic” in the area of modesty. Now some may have high virtue and great custody of the senses so it does not present a personal problem for them - but it is of that order.

Women have a difficulty understanding this – just as us men have a difficulty understanding some aspects of being “a woman”.
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I guess you missed the bolded and underlined portion. My point is that dressing modestly doesn’t stop men from treating you like objects. It doesn’t help any. It doesn’t matter what I wear, I can be treated like an object. A lot of women feel this way, it makes us not care how modest we dress.
 
Bookcat said:
For many many if not most Christian men -** a bikini is going to be something that will be in order “problematic” in the area of modesty.** Now some may have high virtue and great custody of the senses so it does not present a personal problem for them -** but it is of that order**.
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Again those “Christian” men should pray for the Grace to purify their mind – and quit scapegoating.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
Outfits I have been wearing that men/boys/guys have looked at me like an object:

high school cheerleading uniform
high school softball uniform
bikini
one piece
t-shirt and jeans
sundress
maxi dress/blazer combo
cocktail dress
Bermuda shorts and a polo shirt

Maybe guys should be taught not to look at women like objects and we wouldn’t have to have this discussion.
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You know that would be a great thing but that would require us to change our physical being through the evolution process. I would love if I didn’t look at women that way but I can’t help it.
 
And to think I was taught that the “healthy all american young man” (implying straight) could see (almost) any woman in a burlap bag with the same result as a bikini.

And that women actually dress for women.
 
to add to this nike shorts are something to add to the list of immodest things.
 
Loving_disciple said:
You know that would be a great thing but that would require us to change our physical being through the evolution process. I would love if I didn’t look at women that way but I can’t help it.
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And women can’t help they way they we’re built. God made me look the way I do. It is easier and cheaper to change the way boys think than changing my physical appearance. You wanna pay for my plastic surgery so I don’t have a sexually appealing body, even when I dress modestly?
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
I guess you missed the bolded and underlined portion. My point is that dressing modestly doesn’t stop men from treating you like objects. It doesn’t help any. It doesn’t matter what I wear, I can be treated like an object. A lot of women feel this way, it makes us not care how modest we dress.
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Unfortunately. But as Christians -yes it is important that one care (not saying that you do not). As Bl. Pope John Paul II noted – this is an area that women do not experience and need to learn…

And of course it is important anyone not to “tempt” via immodest dress…as Jesus says’ -temptation will come but “woe to” those “by which it comes”…
 
Loving_disciple said:
It is not focused on altering women. The way these men where treating my friends was not the way they Iike. Trust me when I say this. Also did I mention these people are like sisters to me?
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Did you say something to those men? They were the ones doing wrong. Exactly how much would your female friends have to alter their clothing before those treated them respectfully?
 
Bookcat said:
Unfortunately. But as Christians -yes it is important that one care (not saying that you do not). As Bl. Pope John Paul II noted – this is an area that women do not experience and need to learn…

And of course it is important anyone not to “tempt” via immodest dress…as Jesus says’ -temptation will come but “woe to” those “by which it comes”…
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What do you propose I wear so that I don’t tempt men? I have given you a list of clothing which the majority is modest attire.
 
Well, if anyone wants to bring the topic up, one way would be to refer to …something…the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Bible, quotes on modesty by the saints.

It’s VERY hard in this current climate. Years and years ago, I’ve heard that modesty was a topic for homilies. It hasn’t been in my time, though, and I’m approaching 50 years of age!

I have been told by older people that the influence of the 1960s, was particularly damaging all the way around, and nothing has been quite the same ever since.

Years ago, people seemed to realize there was a direct relationship between what we, especially women, wore and how men responded to us.

Now, the current mentality is to put all the responsibility on the man, saying it doesn’t matter if women are nude sunbathing, in a micromini with a tight, plunging neckline, see-through blouse, that it’s always 100% the man’s fault if he falls, sins.

Now yes, I will agree we are 100% at fault for our sins. That being said, I would like to add that I happen to be one of the few who will agree with you on this matter, that I actually believe if the man falls I believe the man to be at fault AND the woman, BOTH! In fact, in my opinion, I consider the woman, in this case, to be even MORE at fault for tempting the man than the man is for falling, but that’s just me.

Saints have asked us who is more at fault, the one who prepares the poison or the one that drinks it? the one who prepares the trap or the one who falls into it?

I know people will probably agree we have an epidemic of sexual sin in our time. To me, one of the first lines of defenses would be modesty. The Bible talks about it, the Catechism, the saints. Yet, if we dare mention the word, typically, realize you could get really hammered!
 
Bookcat said:
Discussion here is about the Bikini.
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:rolleyes: You can lecture me on the fact that I’m not supposed to tempt men. That some clothing sponsors these feelings, but you can’t point me to the clothing I SHOULD be wearing? Gotcha. :rolleyes:
 
Work towards purifying the mind – and not towards pointing the finger at someone else. The more we allow Grace to work within us-- the more we will see others as children of God – no matter what the person wears.
 
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