Bikini

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Bookcat said:
I did.

scepterpublishers.org/product/index.php?FULL=676
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I’m not going to buy a book that tells me what I already know. I think you know that. That isn’t my point. You can tell me over and over that I’m not supposed to tempt some guy, but the honest truth, no matter what a female wears, some guy somewhere is going to like it. I have given you clothing items that have tempted men, from a bikini to a floor length dress with a blazer over it. So you can sit behind your computer screen and tell me all day long that I’M not supposed to dress to make men lust, when in fact, dressing modestly CAN tempt men. It does, ALL THE TIME.
 
You’ll find that modesty is a VERY taboo topic, not politically correct to even discuss in most circles.

I think it’d probably be more acceptable to talk about gay marriage, abortion, contraception, etc., than modesty. Just my experience.

If one even raises the subject, expect to get accused at least a few times of putting your nose where it doesn’t belong, being judgemental, and probably also being prideful.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
I’m not going to buy a book that tells me what I already know. I think you know that. That isn’t my point. You can tell me over and over that I’m not supposed to tempt some guy, but the honest truth, no matter what a female wears, some guy somewhere is going to like it. I have given you clothing items that have tempted men, from a bikini to a floor length dress with a blazer over it. So you can sit behind your computer screen and tell me all day long that I’M not supposed to dress to make men lust, when in fact, dressing modestly CAN tempt men. It does, ALL THE TIME.
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Your choice - it was only an offer of supposed good book on the subject.

Yes there will be men who will lust after women even if they are modestly dressed.

Certainly.

This discussion was about the Bikini. As to other kinds of attire I leave that to the book I referred you to.

The fact that men can lust after a woman who is dressed modestly does not mean that a woman ought to dress immodestly (not that your intending to do so–this is a general statement)

All Christians -men and women are to be modest.
 
Bruised_Reed said:
Actually, it is the issue. Would those male friends have a similar reaction to viewing women with their breasts uncovered because that is how their culture dresses? I’m going to wager that they would. The OP’s friends don’t wear bikini’s 24/7 but those male friends are probably wearing those objectifying attitudes 24/7.

Not all men “recognize it is our faith that calls us to respond properly to our natural impulses to the female body” first, because not all men are men of faith and second, because even men of faith are not always taught to respect women and girls. I’m not saying women should be able to dress however they want to where ever they want to but at the same time I am saying they should be able to wear swimwear at the beach, or shorts and sleeveless tops when it’s hot.

I don’t think the OP should say anything to his female friends who didn’t do anything wrong if he didn’t have the guts to say something to the guys who did.
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Your implying that I didn’t say anything. I have no problem with sleeveless tops of one pieces. However I don’t want my friends to be targets of men including myself because of the way they dress. I don’t want them to be targets in General but it does help to have modesty
 
Oh look! It’s yet another modesty thread. Wanna bet this one ends up like all the others? Someone gets suspended and the thread gets locked.
 
Loving_disciple said:
Your implying that I didn’t say anything. I have no problem with sleeveless tops of one pieces. However I don’t want my friends to be targets of men including myself because of the way they dress. I don’t want them to be targets in General but it does help to have modesty
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No, I didn’t assume but I couldn’t edit my post so I asked later:
Bruised_Reed said:
Did you say something to those men? They were the ones doing wrong. Exactly how much would your female friends have to alter their clothing before those treated them respectfully?
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So, what did you say to those guys and what was there reaction? I suppose it seems easier to have your friends change their clothing rather than change the hearts and minds those guys.

Targeted of what? Objectifying comments? Sexual assault? No, modest dressing will not help. It’s unfortunate that women have to alter our behavior, dressing or not dressing a certain way, not going to certain places etc. so we can avoid being “targeted.” Also, if you are saying your don’t want your friends to be targeted by how they dress then you’re coming close to saying that it’s okay that other women are…especially if the men, who did something wrong, were not addressed.
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
You can tell me over and over that I’m not supposed to tempt some guy, but the honest truth, no matter what a female wears, some guy somewhere is going to like it. I have given you clothing items that have tempted men, from a bikini to a floor length dress with a blazer over it. So you can sit behind your computer screen and tell me all day long that I’M not supposed to dress to make men lust, when in fact, dressing modestly CAN tempt men. It does, ALL THE TIME.
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Can attractive women be attractive in modest clothing? Yes! Nothing wrong with that. Attractive is good. But that is not the same thing as dressing to catch the attention of a man in a lustful way. I work in a large company and in my particular office the overwhelming majority are women. They ALL dress modestly and appropriately for business. You won’t find them wearing low cut tops and exposing themselves. The reason for that is that they are dressing to be respected for what they do and how they are, not what their body looks like. Trust me its NOT a Christian company either!

The real point here is that women need to know that dressing modestly is actually more about respect for themselves. They need to demand respect by showing they demand it and that is making men know them for their abilities and intellect, not to see them visually as some toy or playground for their desires. It’s not about telling women what they can/ can’t wear at all. That seems to be the immediate defense.

As the father of a little girl, I’ve seen it with her friends and the way they dress at 6 & 7 yrs old. Think about the impact this has on children. Thankfully she’s now in a Catholic school and everyone wears a uniform.

Having the attitude that men are will look lustfully at me no matter what I wear, so I’ll just wear immodest clothing is not logical at all. As a man I see women that dress in skimpy clothing and I feel sorry for them. To me they have a self esteem issue. They know darn well when they got dressed and picked out what they were going to wear, that it attracts certain type of attention from men. Then when men look b/c we’re visual creatures, then we are pigs and should control ourselves. WHAT? That is being disrespectful to men.

The OP is being genuine in his concern and feeling a need to try and do the right thing and he’s been attacked for this. What a shame!
 
Convert2013 said:
(…)
Having the attitude that men are will look lustfully at me no matter what I wear, so I’ll just wear immodest clothing is not logical at all. As a man I see women that dress in skimpy clothing and I feel sorry for them. To me they have a self esteem issue. They know darn well when they got dressed and picked out what they were going to wear, that it attracts certain type of attention from men. Then when men look b/c we’re visual creatures, then we are pigs and should control ourselves. WHAT? That is being disrespectful to men.

The OP is being genuine in his concern and feeling a need to try and do the right thing and he’s been attacked for this. What a shame!
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No one here is saying that women should wear immodest clothing because men are going to lust anyway. No one. Also, your comparison of the workplace vs. wearing a bikini don’t jibe because I’m certain none of your female coworkers wear bikinis. But what about at the beach or pool? What about women who need a little more support? One pieces don’t have much support.
 
You know that would be a great thing but that would require us to change our physical being through the evolution process. I would love if I didn’t look at women that way but I can’t help it.
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By our own strength we can’t do much at all. But…

“I can do all things in him who strengthens me.” Philippians 4:13
My point is that dressing modestly doesn’t stop men from treating you like objects. It doesn’t help any. It doesn’t matter what I wear, I can be treated like an object. A lot of women feel this way, it makes us not care how modest we dress.
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“Thus, sinning against your brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food is a cause of my brother’s falling, I will never eat meat, lest I cause my brother to fall.” 1 Corinthians 8:12-13

Men and women both have responsibilities in this situation. Men should imitate Christ who usually walked around with his eyes “cast down”. If you strive to avoid looking in the first place, it’s harder to look lustfully at someone. Women should imitate the Blessed Virgin Mary, who dressed modestly and humbly. Did Mary dress a certain way to please men, women, the Jewish authorities, etc?? No, she dressed modestly to please God.

So stop bickering on both sides and think of the other side with charity. 😃
 
Bruised_Reed said:
No one here is saying that women should wear immodest clothing because men are going to lust anyway. No one. Also, your comparison of the workplace vs. wearing a bikini don’t jibe because I’m certain none of your female coworkers wear bikinis. But what about at the beach or pool? What about women who need a little more support? One pieces don’t have much support.
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How can you be certain they don’t wear bikinis? I don’t know what they wear at the beach. I was referring to modesty in general and the overall attitude. There are plenty of women who wear 1 piece suits at the beach with no apparent problem. I’m not trying to dictate EXACTLY what a woman should wear. Which is what you seem to be looking for here.

Men are responsible for their own actions as well as women. Is it appropriate for them to look at women wearing bikinis?
 
M1Garand said:
Thank you. And I would say I have been where you are. In fact lust rides my back like a wild beast and I constantly struggle with chastity. I also completely agree with you that women dress inappropriately. Ultimately the problem is mine and I have to offer it up and deal with it. Maturity has also taught me that women will not listen to such (name removed by moderator)ut in fact it tends to make them act out more especially the young ones. Show them that a normal young male can look at the bodies God gave them and control his impulse and drives. Show them the utmost respect and love even if they act and are loose. Women have been hyper-sexualized by culture but that is the failing of men not women. We are to protect the fairer sex from these things and if they have succumbed then we protect them by not acting out on those things that make us weak but by becoming strong in our example and we do not need to demean them or dictate to them.

I hope this makes sense.
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A small group of women spent the 1970s trying to convince all women that all men were evil - only out to use and abuse them. We need to know how we got from a society where I treated women with the utmost respect, and still do, to a group of self-styled Fashion Elitists who told women it’s OK to dress like a street walker or show over 90% of your skin on a beach. Which is why I’m never going to a beach again. I’m serious. If any of those girls were my daughters, the answer to "Dad? Can I wear this? would be “No. Listen, young lady, Guys are guys and they respond to nearly naked young women as they always have. And I will not have my daughter running around in public in her underwear or less,” because, every so often, those so-called Fashion Designers shave off a little more cloth.

amazon.com/Extreme-Makeover-Transformed-Conformed-Culture/dp/1586175610

Wake up, my fellow Catholics. Human dignity begins with human decency.

Peace,
Ed
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
And women can’t help they way they we’re built. God made me look the way I do. It is easier and cheaper to change the way boys think than changing my physical appearance. You wanna pay for my plastic surgery so I don’t have a sexually appealing body, even when I dress modestly?
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That wasn’t what I meant
 
KendraDZ1902 said:
Like men don’t lust after women in one pieces? Heck, some men will say that one pieces are more attractive because it leaves a little to the imagination, where bikinis leave none to the imagination. 🤷
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Yes exactly. Modestly can’t be equated to the % of exposed skin.

And by the way, it is not necessarily “lust” that an attractive woman elicits. It may simply be admiration, and it can be quite captivating and cause one to stare.
 
Convert2013 said:
Can attractive women be attractive in modest clothing? Yes! Nothing wrong with that. Attractive is good. But that is not the same thing as dressing to catch the attention of a man in a lustful way. I work in a large company and in my particular office the overwhelming majority are women. They ALL dress modestly and appropriately for business. You won’t find them wearing low cut tops and exposing themselves. The reason for that is that they are dressing to be respected for what they do and how they are, not what their body looks like. Trust me its NOT a Christian company either!

QUOTE]

Men can still lust after women in appropriate clothing. Then what? Are we to change what is appropriate because men are still lusting? It is pitiful. That’s what I don’t get. People have said that the sin is on both the man and woman. Well, that isn’t fair, especially when I’m doing what I’m supposed to do. “You aren’t supposed to tempt your Christian brother.” Yeah well, some of my Christian brothers need to take a chill pill.
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Are all Bikini’s immodest, or only some?

Are all one-piece swimsuits “modest”, or only some (or none)?

Can you (anyone) elaborate on where the line is crossed?
 
Modesty is not a line. It is a virtue. It should be practiced by all person to the best of their ability, based on their conscience.

Sadly, many people today have a dulled or ignored conscience, and thus their sense of modesty is greatly damaged.
 
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