Bikini

[DMC12]

How many % of the world is Christian, Muslim, and Jewish? not counting other religions who might also have a nice view of chastity.

some will feel bad after commiting a sin some even will feel like trash (not saying that is a good feeling but i assume some people do), some even if they do not sin would feel more stressed when having to face more temptations, having to look away in fear in order to avoid ocassion of sin.

I’m not here about people who want to see people as objects and that it wont matter how they dress they will still do the same. im talking about those that for some reason are weak in that area, maybe a bad life, maybe other stuff, but nonetheless trying to overcome it.

 

[fin]

You’re right, boyshorts can show butt cleavage especially if they’re very tight. But I’ve seen the usual bikini bottoms which can show this too, aside from being super low waist and having a crotch only a few inches wide.

I guess an option would be normal non-boyshort bottoms that have a higher waist and more coverage for the crotch area. Of course high waist probably won’t be flattering everyone

I’ve seen sites selling modest swimsuits as them call it. The tops are tankinis, and for the bottoms they offer both bikini bottoms and boyshorts styles. They also sell skirts with bottoms attached. I guess that would make them more modest.

So this is where it gets confusing. Fin thinks bikini bottoms should be boyshorts because they are “more modest.” Really? I think they have the potential to be very immodest. I think the concept is “sexy,” the idea a woman is borrowing a man’s clothing, which is an intimate thing. That’s why I think they are sexier to wear. But, from the back, boy shorts aren’t that modest; they ride very low on the hips and can show butt cleavage and also are a cut a little high on the bottom and show what I call butt jowels. They don’t flatter everyone. So how does a woman apply what dshix wrote? One person thinks boyshorts are more modest and I think they are sexier.

 

[severus68]

This is NOT the issue. He is not suggesting he has no responsibility. All men recognize it is our faith that calls us to respond properly to our natural impulses to the female body. The impulse is natural and good but should be reserved for our wives. Once our “body” responds to a female, we are of course called to control ourselves and not treat a woman as an object. That is NOT what the OP is talking about. He is talking about the first cause of the attraction, the revealing nature of the bikini. And women DO have a responsibility to NOT cause attention to their bodies outside of their bedroom. We as men cannot expect women to be forced to comply, but we can, and SHOULD at least ask our friends.

Please read what the OP said about other men treating his female friends like meat and my suggestion was about that.

Nothing wrong with men admiring women and vice versa, as long as it stops there. The human body is beautiful. If we all look at others as persons not objects from the onset, then lust does not come in. This applies to husbands and wives too.

The bikini has been discussed on many threads on CAF at nausem. If anyone has an issue with bikinis and other swim wear, I would suggest they stay away beaches and swimming pools. Life is too short and there is so much suffering in this world to justify so much time and energy on clothing.

 

[severus68]

Outfits I have been wearing that men/boys/guys have looked at me like an object:

high school cheerleading uniform
high school softball uniform
bikini
one piece
t-shirt and jeans
sundress
maxi dress/blazer combo
cocktail dress
Bermuda shorts and a polo shirt

Maybe guys should be taught not to look at women like objects and we wouldn’t have to have this discussion.

Yes.

 

[severus68]

---

Those “men” should take responsibility for their own disordered desired mind and pray for the grace to purify their mind-- instead of making others into scapegoats.

Yes, everyone should take responsibility for their own thoughts, words and deeds.

 

[severus68]

For many many if not most Christian men - a bikini is going to be something that will be in order “problematic” in the area of modesty. Now some may have high virtue and great custody of the senses so it does not present a personal problem for them - but it is of that order.

Women have a difficulty understanding this – just as us men have a difficulty understanding some aspects of being “a woman”…

It appears that you are saying that many, many Christian men are tempted by the sight of a woman in a bikini which would mean than non- Christian men are more likely to see women as persons whatever they are wearing.

I know of many, many Christian men who also see women as persons and first look at the face, never the clothes.

 

[severus68]

And to think I was taught that the “healthy all american young man” (implying straight) could see (almost) any woman in a burlap bag with the same result as a bikini.

And that women actually dress for women.

I don’t know about young American males but I would think that for the most, women do dress for themselves.

 

[severus68]

Well, if anyone wants to bring the topic up, one way would be to refer to …something…the Catechism of the Catholic Church, Bible, quotes on modesty by the saints.

It’s VERY hard in this current climate. Years and years ago, I’ve heard that modesty was a topic for homilies. It hasn’t been in my time, though, and I’m approaching 50 years of age!

I have been told by older people that the influence of the 1960s, was particularly damaging all the way around, and nothing has been quite the same ever since.

Years ago, people seemed to realize there was a direct relationship between what we, especially women, wore and how men responded to us.

Now, the current mentality is to put all the responsibility on the man, saying it doesn’t matter if women are nude sunbathing, in a micromini with a tight, plunging neckline, see-through blouse, that it’s always 100% the man’s fault if he falls, sins.

Now yes, I will agree we are 100% at fault for our sins. That being said, I would like to add that I happen to be one of the few who will agree with you on this matter, that I actually believe if the man falls I believe the man to be at fault AND the woman, BOTH! In fact, in my opinion, I consider the woman, in this case, to be even MORE at fault for tempting the man than the man is for falling, but that’s just me.

Saints have asked us who is more at fault, the one who prepares the poison or the one that drinks it? the one who prepares the trap or the one who falls into it?

I know people will probably agree we have an epidemic of sexual sin in our time. To me, one of the first lines of defenses would be modesty. The Bible talks about it, the Catechism, the saints. Yet, if we dare mention the word, typically, realize you could get really hammered!

So, men who lust are poor defenseless things who are trapped by temptresses.

 

[severus68]

Work towards purifying the mind – and not towards pointing the finger at someone else. The more we allow Grace to work within us-- the more we will see others as children of God – no matter what the person wears.

Well said.

 

[severus68]

This demonstrates the subjectivity of mens’ reactions, and why they are not a good reference for determining whether a female is dressed modestly or immodestly. Clothes, or lack of clothes, aren’t objectively sinful. The intention of the person who is wearing or not wearing certain clothing is what determines whether their clothing is meant to provoke lust, not the responses of the men around the woman, because every man will likely see her differently no matter what she is wearing.

Agreed.

 

[severus68]

How many % of the world is Christian, Muslim, and Jewish? not counting other religions who might also have a nice view of chastity.

some will feel bad after commiting a sin some even will feel like trash (not saying that is a good feeling but i assume some people do), some even if they do not sin would feel more stressed when having to face more temptations, having to look away in fear in order to avoid ocassion of sin.

I’m not here about people who want to see people as objects and that it wont matter how they dress they will still do the same. im talking about those that for some reason are weak in that area, maybe a bad life, maybe other stuff, but nonetheless trying to overcome it.

We are human so we all have weaknesses but we have to work on them and not use them as an excuse.

 

[OurLadyPray4US]

Where I live the lake freezes over

Where I live a woman attended Holy Mass in short shorts and sports bra

 

[Loving_disciple]

Where I live a woman attended Holy Mass in short shorts and sports bra

It is not thing to be dressed like that for exercise but to go in front of Jesus like that is a big NO

 

[catholictiger]

Work towards purifying the mind – and not towards pointing the finger at someone else. The more we allow Grace to work within us-- the more we will see others as children of God – no matter what the person wears.

i strongly agree but girls dressing in ways that help men seek a purity of mind will help this. Don’t wear something that will make it easier for men to lust after you. As I said before think of your body as a weeding room or something similar that should only be shown after you are married to every one else you should put a veil of it.

it is a cooperative battle both the Man and Women play a role.

 

[Loving_disciple]

i strongly agree but girls dressing in ways that help men seek a purity of mind will help this. Don’t wear something that will make it easier for men to lust after you. As I said before think of your body as a weeding room or something similar that should only be shown after you are married to every one else you should put a veil of it.

it is a cooperative battle both the Man and Women play a role.

Yep you are absolutely right

 

[Bookcat]

You can get your friends a Christmas gift:

“The Privilege of Being a Woman” by Dame Doctor Alice Von Hildebrand

cuapress.cua.edu/search.cfm

(recently made a dame…catholicnewsagency.com/news/pope-names-alice-von-hildebrand-to-prestigious-order/)

 

[DMC12]

We are human so we all have weaknesses but we have to work on them and not use them as an excuse.

I said that some people are fighting to overcome their weakness, not making excuses, and taking the responsability of their acts, but why should other people make it harder for them?

the first part is that even for atheist it is a good value to dress modestly, after all even if they don’t believe in sin and God, the mental pain they are causing to others (which is most of the world), is something that you can see with your own eyes.

It appears that you are saying that many, many Christian men are tempted by the sight of a woman in a bikini which would mean than non- Christian men are more likely to see women as persons whatever they are wearing.

I know of many, many Christian men who also see women as persons and first look at the face, never the clothes.

No, i think he means that some Christian men struggle with that feeling,

atheist and others just “enjoy” the show, so they don’t find it problematic at all.

 

[on_the_hill]

Outfits I have been wearing that men/boys/guys have looked at me like an object:

high school cheerleading uniform
high school softball uniform
bikini
one piece
t-shirt and jeans
sundress
maxi dress/blazer combo
cocktail dress
Bermuda shorts and a polo shirt

Maybe guys should be taught not to look at women like objects and we wouldn’t have to have this discussion.

There was a Catholic high school near where I went to graduate school. The girls wore classic uniforms. One time I drove past with a buddy of mine, who was also Catholic. We had a ten-second conversation that was essentially:

“If the people who run that school had any idea–those girls in those uniforms–”
“Yep.”

'nuff said.

 

[on_the_hill]

You know that would be a great thing but that would require us to change our physical being through the evolution process. I would love if I didn’t look at women that way but I can’t help it.

You’re expressing a normal reaction, right? Men are created to be sexually attracted to women.

 

[on_the_hill]

I agree with one of the replies. Bikinis look like underwear. For me it’s not just about the midriff being exposed. Some bikini tops are skimpy and expose much cleavage/part of the breasts. I also think that bottoms (including those for one piece suits) should be boyshorts, which are more modest.

Uhh…have you seen boyshorts? I’d rather have my daughter wear a bikini bottm than boyshorts.

If I were a Mod, I’d be looking very closely at this thread. Some of the comments are getting fairly specific about body parts and how/when they’re exposed. Not saying it will or should be locked, but…