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SWolf
Guest
Lucky for Bill, it’s making a resurgence, especially among the young.
I never would have guessed he had a soft spot for things religious. Then again, he struck me as the life of the party in public, but melancholy privately, so there’s a lot about himself he’s probably not open about.
I will pray for him.
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7_Sorrows
Guest
He misses the Latin Mass but admires Pope John XXIII
(who I also admired)? I wonder if he is a practicing Catholic or had a strong Catholic upbringing. Isn’t the music still sacred?
I like Bill Murray. A great comedian as well as dramatic actor.
(who I also admired)? I wonder if he is a practicing Catholic or had a strong Catholic upbringing. Isn’t the music still sacred?
I like Bill Murray. A great comedian as well as dramatic actor.
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Tigg
Guest
I agree, Bill…I agree!
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SWolf
Guest
I can only speak for myself, but I rarely hear Gregorian Chant or a classic hymn like you would see in the Pius X Hymnal at Mass, which I’m assuming he is referring to.
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Contra_Mundum_1
Guest
Nice
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Valdemar
Guest
Dig a little into the personal and publicly-known struggles of this guy before you make him the next head of the CDF. LOL. For myself I’m just glad he possibly has something to lead him back to the Lord and His Church.
As for the TLM, yes, many of us love it. I have parish associations with both a novus ordo where I am very active in a sort of missionary capacity with our wonderful African Priest and a FSSP TLM parish where I am a member of the Confraternity of St Peter. The place I personally feel most worshipful is at the FSSP TLM parish not due to the content of the Mass per se {both are valid Masses}, but the content of the culture.
Another observation which could be merely local is that the novus ordo parish is populated by many who have very strong opinions of dissent about Church doctrine and are in more or less constant underlying struggle w/ Church and Priest about the details of how the Mass should be presented, the music used, etc.
At the FSSP Chapel, there is unity and power in not just the Mass but the congregation of the faithful.
Also, the hair color of the novus ordo parish is a solid gray. That of the TLM parish is variable from bald {babies!!!} to everything else. There are LOTS of young people, young families, young adults, etc but has significantly fewer gray hairs.
The novus ordo parish is closer on the timeline to the Culture of Death both in terms of the proximity of their doctrine to the teachings of the Church and their feet to that 6-foot hole in the ground.
As for the TLM, yes, many of us love it. I have parish associations with both a novus ordo where I am very active in a sort of missionary capacity with our wonderful African Priest and a FSSP TLM parish where I am a member of the Confraternity of St Peter. The place I personally feel most worshipful is at the FSSP TLM parish not due to the content of the Mass per se {both are valid Masses}, but the content of the culture.
Another observation which could be merely local is that the novus ordo parish is populated by many who have very strong opinions of dissent about Church doctrine and are in more or less constant underlying struggle w/ Church and Priest about the details of how the Mass should be presented, the music used, etc.
At the FSSP Chapel, there is unity and power in not just the Mass but the congregation of the faithful.
Also, the hair color of the novus ordo parish is a solid gray. That of the TLM parish is variable from bald {babies!!!} to everything else. There are LOTS of young people, young families, young adults, etc but has significantly fewer gray hairs.
The novus ordo parish is closer on the timeline to the Culture of Death both in terms of the proximity of their doctrine to the teachings of the Church and their feet to that 6-foot hole in the ground.
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SWolf
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Catholic teaching is now so far outside mainstream culture that many families are going “underground”, so to speak. I see the TLM as fostering that mostly positive mentality, even if it creates somewhat of a “bunker” line of thinking. The Novus Ordo sees itself as still working in the world, even if many of the parishioners don’t ascribe to all the elements of the faith, also positive. They still evangelize, but don’t push as many buttons.
Both can go overboard. I’ve seen plenty of bad Novus Ordo masses where anything goes, and there’s an TLM SSPX Church, which I would never frequent while they are in schism, two miles from my house.
You’re blessed to be part of an FSSP Church.
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Valdemar
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That’s a pretty good assessment.
It all does make one wonder what the worship and culture of the Church…oh, and numbers…are going to look like in a century.
On a sidenote, our Priest comments that it wasn’t till V2 and subsequently with the establishment of the vernacular Mass of Pope Paul VI that Catholicism took off in East Africa, and when he came to the USA he was quite uninformed about the TLM culture and actually, negatively inclined toward it. Now after seeing American Catholicism in NY and all thruout our diocese here, he is utterly dismayed with the general malaise and resistance to orthodox doctrine present in many novus ordo parishes and is pursuing training to offer the TLM.
It does interest me as well as a convert that as much as the overall thrust of the Church seems to be to support the “new Mass” you still have to educate the membership about what the New Evangelization is. No problem in the TLM parish or any other TLM parish I am familiar with. They know and they are doing it.
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Ignatius
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Seeker2013
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I sort of understand the nostalgia for the Latin. But it was the vernacular Mass of the Roman Empire (at least the Latin speakers). What repells me is that Latin was the official language of the Roman Empire offials who executed Christ. Now, if the switch had been from Aramaic, I think the argument against change from a little used vernacular to contemporary vernacular would be stronger.
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SWolf
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And Hitler spoke German. Languages aren’t evil, people are.
Actually, someone correct me if I’m wrong, I believe you can technically have a Tridentine Mass in the vernacular, it just doesn’t tend to be done because the Latin is considered so beautiful.
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Scottgun
Guest
Well, then it is a good thing we don’t worship Seeker2013. To poo-poo Latin in such a manner is a slap in the face to every saint that spoke and wrote in it.
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ProVobis
Guest
St John XXIII effectively banned the vernacular in Veterum Sapientia.
And it’s his Mass (the 62 Missal) which is used in the Latin Mass. (The New Mass can be said in Latin but it’s very rare.)
And Murray is right. A phrase like “Sursum corda” has a different vibration than “Lift up your hearts” not to mention a slightly different meaning.
You think if Hitler spoke Spanish, he would have been as effective?
No, it has to be in Latin. It would defeat its purpose to have it in vernacular, that of unifying across countries and cultures. Many parishes are going bilingual so it’s partly intended to unify those people.
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jimmy
Guest
I don’t see the contradiction. P. John XXIII was admirable, even if you don’t agree with the changes to the mass. Besides, if you were going to lay the blame at the feet of any particular pope it would probably be Paul VI who lead the council.
I agree with him. Something has been lost with the new mass. There was a sense of beauty in the old mass. The new mass is completely lacking in any sense of beauty.
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jimmy
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It was also the language every western saint spoke for most of the history of Christianity. Besides, what does the language spoken have to do with the crucifixion of Jesus? Should we ban Greek and Hebrew as well since those who hung Jesus also spoke those languages? No one should be allowed to study the Hebrew OT or the Greek NT.
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Valdemar
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Bill are you listening??
Go see Father Rutler!!
Go see Father Rutler!!
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LittleFlower378
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When was the last time we have seen a movie star talk about the Catholic Mass in the news? It is a refreshing thing to see! 
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ProVobis
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Mel Gibson and Alfred Hitchcock come to mind.When was the last time we have seen a movie star talk about the Catholic Mass in the news? It is a refreshing thing to see!
You’re right. It is refreshing to see (or hear) this.
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OraLabora
Guest
I hear it every Sunday at Mass; and if I could make it to weekday Mass as well I’d hear it every day. Just hang around with Benedictines
This is in the Ordinary Form too, using the Graduale Romanum of 1974 (the one you refer to is the Vatican Edition of the Graduale Romanum which came out in 1908).
I also sing in a Gregorian schola. We bring Gregorian chant to various parishes in our small city of ~100k population, once a month plus at various activities (parish anniversaries, funerals, concerts, etc.). Also in the OF, using the Graduale Romanum when we sing for Mass. We also do solemn Vespers on one Sunday each of Advent and Lent, plus Holy Saturday Lauds, in Gregorian chant, using the current Liturgy of the Hours.
There are similar scholas in Montreal, Quebec City, Chicoutimi, Southern Ontario, and Western Canada.
Have faith, some of us are working to ensure it doesn’t die out!
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