Billions of people have HD video cameras in their pockets: why aren't we seeing lots of miracles on video?

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Hear this, you foolish and senseless people, who have eyes but do not see, who have ears but do not hear:

Jeremiah 5:21

I see miracles around me every day.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Hello there,

'Twasn’t a claim I was making, tho. It was a perhaps.

I can’t see much evidence for miracles in the links you posted.
The first two links seem to be more about whether the gospels and the books in the Christian canon are mythical or not.
The first one makes a passing reference to miracles and the second one lists some people who believe in the Jesus story. The only specific miracle I see mentioned in the first two is the disciples seeing Jesus after he was crucified.
But the evidence provided in the blogs for this does not seem solid at all. IMO the testimony isn’t clear and certain as you feel it is.

People in the past believing what others before them wrote about what others before them say they saw…that is problematic and still very iffy.
If seeing Jesus in front of them is the main evidence, the difficulty with that is we know much more today about visions than people did 2000 years ago.
We know that 1 out of every 8 people has had some kind of visionary experience–the most common being deceased loved ones and revered religious figures.
So we can’t rely on writers we don’t know writing stories that have been passed along verbally for decades.
I spent years as a fact checker and…well, my boss would have had a field day with those quotes, lemme tell ya.

Unless of course…do we consider the thousands of visions people have had in recent years of loved ones/religious figures as bodily resurrections and miracles as well?
We can say that, I suppose.

The third link lead to a dead end.
The fourth Tim Staples link I couldn’t open without some sort of special app.

I can’t see where any of the first two links mention medical science as support of miracles.
Is this information in the links I cannot open?

I’ll get back to you on the Lourdes book. I have it somewhere and have read it and made notes.

.
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Friend, I never claimed that the first two links appealed to medical science in any way. The second two do. I am sorry they wouldn’t work for you, I’m not sure why. Let me repost links on that topic. Regarding the Resurrection and your appeal to hallucination, here - peterkreeft.com/topics-more/resurrection-evidence.htm
What about the sources I provided was not solid, may I ask?
Here are the other links which concern the definitive testimony of contemporary medical science:
pamphlets.org.au/docs/cts/australia/html/acts1518.html
catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/miracles-and-evangelism
catholicpamphlets.net/pamphlets/THE%20MIRACLES%20AT%20LOURDES.pdf
You also may wish to check this page out - therealpresence.org/archives/Church_Dogma/Church_Dogma_026.htm
May God bless you! Be well.
 
Little_Tiger said:
. . . To convince me that miracles exist, I would have to see an organic disease cured, a leg growing back after amputation, a cancer disappearing, a congenital dislocation suddenly vanishing. If such things could be scientifically proved then it would be permissible to admit the intervention of a supernatural power."
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It is fairly strange we have never seen even one case like this as far back as I can recall, if anyone knows of any, please post and let me know though.

Maybe the people who do get their amputated limbs suddenly replaced or something similar just keep it to themselves and that may be the reason why this info is not more widespread? Thats the only thing I can think of.
 
Strydersroom said:
To be totally honest, if David Copperfield lived in biblical times, he would absolutely be seen as a miracle worker, a wizard, and yes a God by many.
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I find it interesting what a parochial attitude is shown towards those who lived in biblical times.

Those men and women were not stupid.

Biblical times does not equal “Therefore they believed in all sorts of stupid things.”

Let me remind you that there are folks today who believe that immunizations cause autism, that we never landed on the moon, that aliens are responsible for Christ’s empty tomb, that Mexico is sending the US all their rapists and murderers, so…🤷
 
mikekle said:
It is fairly strange we have never seen even one case like this as far back as I can recall, if anyone knows of any, please post and let me know though.

Maybe the people who do get their amputated limbs suddenly replaced or something similar just keep it to themselves and that may be the reason why this info is not more widespread? Thats the only thing I can think of.
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One has to wonder why this would be considered proof of God?

Is it because it’s tacitly understood that something can’t come from…nothing?
 
mikekle said:
It is fairly strange we have never seen even one case like this as far back as I can recall, if anyone knows of any, please post and let me know though.

Maybe the people who do get their amputated limbs suddenly replaced or something similar just keep it to themselves and that may be the reason why this info is not more widespread? Thats the only thing I can think of.
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Hello,
Here’s an excellent resource which both lists numerous cases of organic diseases being cured, and gives detailed descriptions of such things as blindness since childhood being cured, cancer disappearing, and a man with a hole in his skull experiencing the disappearance of the metal plate present in his head and the appearance of new bone.
Interestingly, I’m not sure amputated limbs being restored is even mentioned in the Gospels. So, I’m not sure it is one of the forms of miraculous healings that has really historically taken place. Hm. Although one of the remarkable cases at Lourdes did involve the miraculous fusion of a broken limb, where there had actually been a substantial amount of bone missing in between the two pieces.
pamphlets.org.au/docs/cts/australia/html/acts1518.html
God bless you my friend, and be well! 🙂
 
PRmerger said:
I find it interesting what a parochial attitude is shown towards those who lived in biblical times.

Those men and women were not stupid.

Biblical times does not equal “Therefore they believed in all sorts of stupid things.”

Let me remind you that there are folks today who believe that immunizations cause autism, that we never landed on the moon, that aliens are responsible for Christ’s empty tomb, that Mexico is sending the US all their rapists and murderers, so…🤷
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Excellent point. The notion of “chronological snobbery” which accuses those persons living two millennia ago of being simple-minded is really quite absurd, particularly if you read Sacred Scripture. Read the Epistles of St. Paul and tell me he was an ignoramus. :cool:
 
Mikekle,
You also may want to check this out - catholic.com/blog/tim-staples/miracles-and-evangelism
It describes the remarkable miracle wrought through St. (Padre) Pio, in which a young girl born without pupils received her sight (and not by means of gaining pupils- she became able to see without pupils in her eyes which, of course, is scientifically impossible. Yet it is true, and in fact she remained with us on Earth at the time the blog post was written, and I certainly hope that she is with us to this day.
May God bless you and keep you my friend! Be well!
 
JapaneseKappa,
My apologies for the delay my friend.
Consider a point made in the source you provided -
“Only one thing is certain, and that is that the scant Egyptian evidence at least points unanimously to a 13th century b.c. date for an Israelite “exodus,” if any. (See Hermann 1973: 19–50; Miller IJH, 246–52; contra Bimson 1981.)”
Consider it in conjunction with the fact that no writings remain from the region in which the Jews are said to have dwelt, as well as the positive evidence for the exodus that my three sources provided.
May God bless you!
 
1 Samuel 3:1 - “And the Word of the Lord was rare in those days, and there was no frequent vision.”

Nothing new.
 
mikekle said:
It is fairly strange we have never seen even one case like this as far back as I can recall, if anyone knows of any, please post and let me know though.

Maybe the people who do get their amputated limbs suddenly replaced or something similar just keep it to themselves and that may be the reason why this info is not more widespread? Thats the only thing I can think of.
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Aactually there have been quite a few completely known instances of things. There have been TV specials not even “religious” just about unexplained events.

But I also note this thread has a few people with specific inclination toward just hearing themselves say there are no miracles.

They engage bible quote posters because that is easy fodder from the atheist standpint, yet some posted with non conviction clearly unexplainable video and nothing is said.

Why?

Simpke, because miracle or not (I have been atheist/agnostic but never so skillfully ignored these things) there are an insane amount of things equaling “miracle” level.

We are taught to in general in society of doubt to say “we’ll figure it out someday” etc etc.

But I remember watching the discovery or such channel and they were going over unexplained things. One was notably this little girl who did not want surgery on her tumor. She was scared of it, and 15 mins prior to surgery when getting her ready and doing their last checks it was gone… just gone.

Now we can speculate all day and in less believing versions of myself I might say it has sonething to do with the power of the mind… fair enough for you athesits to hold as a belief…

BUT to sit here and say it has never happened is like an atheistic version of a religious fanatic claiming the world is flat.

There are things both sides can argue the finer points and philosophy of, but then there are certain items that if either side claims such a thing we need to just in the words of Mr. T “Pity the fool” and walk away.
 
PRmerger said:
One has to wonder why this would be considered proof of God?

Is it because it’s tacitly understood that something can’t come from…nothing?
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It would be proof of some higher power intervening and doing something no human could do.

Whether or not people ‘see’ it and accredit it to the God of the bible is dependent on their personal beliefs.

Maybe things like this happen all the time, but most people just can not ‘see’ it?
 
Little_Tiger said:
I do not see why you require us to read the works of Plato and Hume for you yourself to do an honest investigation of the truth. Please reconsider the notion that truth cannot be found in a book or on a website, but only in an HD video.
May Almighty God bless you and keep you.
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Whoa, whoa, hold your horses there little tiger! I’ve sifted through your posts and will dedicate some time later today to investigating some of these events.

I recommend some books to you precisely because I do believe some truth can be found there. I also believe truth can be found on websites, I have a link to a great one in my signature. I also believe truth can be found through reason, science, nature, art, dialogue, and video (among other things).

You see, for the ancient world, written texts were the highest-tech form of recording available at the time. Today we have HD video, even 3D video! I imagine that if the events in the gospels were to happen today, the huge crowds following Jesus and seeing his miracles would have recorded it on their phones.

Similarly, the great miracles worked by all kinds of heroes/prophets/saints/mystics/gods would be recorded not on clay tablets or papyrus, but digital video with sound.

If miracles are happening today, we should be seeing video of some of this stuff.

Now, in my mind anyway, miracles are different from merely improbable or unexplained events. I want to see something actually impossible. I want to see someone rise from the grave after being dead and buried for 3 full days. I want to see water literally turn into wine in real time. I want to see bread and fish multiply, and fig trees wither suddenly upon command, etc. I want to SEE that Marian apparition make a specific prophecy that is fulfilled unambiguously. Imagine if Jesus had appeared to Faustina today instead of the early 20th century. Instead of recording the miraculous apparition in a diary, she could have recorded it on her phone.

NO excuses. NO BS. Real-time bona-fide impossibilities on camera, preferably from several cameras and angles. A kid and his grandma surviving a freak car accident is not good enough. A woman surviving her car going down in 10 feet of water is not good enough (automatic windows shut themselves sometimes, or she could have hit the button with her foot on the way out). Waxy incorruptible bodies are not good enough.

Jesus told his disciples that they would do greater signs than he himself did. Christians, there are more of you now than ever before in history, and more opportunity to record your fantastic deeds. Where are your signs? Where are your miracles?

You mentioned a girl born without pupils who is able to miraculously see. Who is it and where is she? Let’s get her on tape, give her some vision tests conducted by experts, do an MRI and PET scan, and interview her about her miraculous healing.

Have you ever heard of the James Randi challenge? It offered $1 million dollars to anyone who would be able to demonstrate a miraculous or paranormal healing/ability in laboratory conditions. It was available from 1964-2015. Thousands of people attempted it and every single one of them was demonstrated to be a fraud. Why didn’t any Christian miracle workers go for this? They could have proven Christianity true and received $1 million to give to the poor.

I mean, we do have videos of a man claiming to be god performing miracles: youtube.com/watch?v=ZXqBg1Uirbo

Also check out: saibaba.ws/miracles.htm

Are those things convincing to you? Ask yourself why not. Chances are we have some common ground here.
 
PRmerger said:
Because…it is tacitly understood that something cannot come from nothing?
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Let me put it this way: if you could show me verified, authentic (un-edited) video of an amputee re-growing a full arm or leg within a few minutes at the request of a Roman Catholic clergy who prays something like this:

“Oh Trinity, as defined by the Catholic Church, please heal this person’s limb through the intercession of Mary and all the officially canonized saints. By healing this limb, you endorse the One Holy Apostolic Roman Catholic Church as the one and exclusive true church and your official spokesmen on earth, and affirm that all creatures must be subject to the Roman Pontiff and generally approve of this same church’s infallible authority in all matters of faith and morals”

I will publicly repent, convert to Catholicism, and become an evangelist.
 
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