G
gilliam
Guest
Only states can officially declare war on each other, at least according to the Geneva Convention. A non-state actor terrorist group that does not receive the protections of the Third Geneva Convention.
- Status
M
Matt25
Guest
I’ve always been curious about this. If Northern Alliance members fighting alongside the USA in Afghanistan had been captured by the Taliban would they be entitled to the protection of the Geneva Convention? They would not have received it of course but would they have been entitled to it?
R
Richardols
Guest
No. We have our soldiers engaged in transitioning Iraq to self-sustained independence. The United States is no longer “at war” and even when we were fighting that less than third rate army, it was hardly “being at war.”
No. He is not a military commander, and we were in combat against the Iraqi Army, the commander of which was Saddam Hussein, who, trust me, did not take his orders from OBL.
When was Hitler personally ever targeted, except by his own officers?
The Geneva Convention is a treaty between nations, not individuals. Did he actually “declare war”?
Yes.
The just war theory and international law (what international law?) apply to nations, not individuals.
H
HagiaSophia
Guest
I do recall Yamamoto took a swim into the deep a while back. There was also more than one plot to kill Hitler.
As for the transitioning - that is an objective of the campaign and the mission in Iraq - the fact is we are at war.
R
Richardols
Guest
More than a swim. It was the assassination of a military leader. I don’t know of any attempted assasination attempts on Hitler by the Allies, though I could be wrong. If you know of any, please tell us about the circumstances of such attempt.
A nice jingoist phrase. Like “boots on the ground,” I suppose. Nations go to war with other nations. We attacked Iraq, another nation, so were at war with them. But, I though we beat them. So, with whom are we “at war” now? Terrorists? Even the adored George W. has stated that we will always have a problem with terrorism. So, is this to mean that the United States will be “at war” forever from now on? Or just until we are made bankrupt, by the military spending there and impotent by the drain on our soldiers?
C
cestusdei
Guest
This is a different kind of war. The cold war was also a different kind of war. It took decades, but we won it. This one will take decades also, but we will win. Unless of course the terrorists allies here (ie. the liberals) win elections. Then we could well lose. That would be a disaster. Even the libs would eventually figure it out, but it would be too late. Osama has said it would take killing 20-30 MILLION Americans before we would give up and accept Islamic domination. That alone is just reason to fight. I find it difficult to believe that there are still some people who think WE are the enemy. If you believe that and live in the US then get the hell out. If you believe that and live in one of our allies then don’t expect help from us. Fight your life and the lives of your children. That is just.
M
Matt25
Guest
Where and when did he say that?
C
cestusdei
Guest
Matt,
In one of his tapes. You folks didn’t believe Mein Kampf either. Yet Hitler gave you fair warning of what he planned. It is utterly ridiculous that you want to have Osama sit down with you and tell you that yes he does want to kill lots of Americans. He already has done so. Wake up! Instead of questioning me as if I am being somehow unfair to poor Osama maybe you would be better off assisting us in getting rid of him.
In one of his tapes. You folks didn’t believe Mein Kampf either. Yet Hitler gave you fair warning of what he planned. It is utterly ridiculous that you want to have Osama sit down with you and tell you that yes he does want to kill lots of Americans. He already has done so. Wake up! Instead of questioning me as if I am being somehow unfair to poor Osama maybe you would be better off assisting us in getting rid of him.
M
Matt25
Guest
In other words you don’t know
C
cestusdei
Guest
Matt,
If you don’t believe that Osama wants to kill Americans then you an apologist for terrorism. Some deaths are more equal then others for you. An American is killed and you shed no tears, but if we kill a terrorist you leap to defend him. I invite you to listen to any of the many tapes he has released. I don’t remember which one he stated it in, but I remember it being reported. Prove me wrong. Show me what a nice guy Osama is. How can you claim to be a pacifist and then defend dictators and terrorists? This has always confused me in the pacifists I know.
If you don’t believe that Osama wants to kill Americans then you an apologist for terrorism. Some deaths are more equal then others for you. An American is killed and you shed no tears, but if we kill a terrorist you leap to defend him. I invite you to listen to any of the many tapes he has released. I don’t remember which one he stated it in, but I remember it being reported. Prove me wrong. Show me what a nice guy Osama is. How can you claim to be a pacifist and then defend dictators and terrorists? This has always confused me in the pacifists I know.
F
FightingFat
Guest
What a deliberate attempt to misunderstand!
C
cestusdei
Guest
I understand perfectly. I went to college. My pacifist friends used to defend every left wing anti-American dictator no matter what his crimes against humanity were. I really do wish I understood this mentality.
R
Richardols
Guest
Well, it’s similar to the mentality of the Young Republican types who defended all the right-wing dictators around the world, regardless of their crimes, as long as they cozied up to the U.S.
C
cestusdei
Guest
Sure some did with the idea that we should do what is in the best interests of the US. But take Nicaraugua for example. We supported the insurgents and the left was horrified. Meanwhile THEY supported communist insurgents in El Salvador. They are quite selective in which revolutionaries they like. The difference is that when the Sandanistas were forced to have a free election the Contros won! The people voted the communists out of office. Before they left they looted the national treasury leaving it empty. In El Salvador they too were forced to have an election. Again the communists lost! The people voted for the right. They don’t teach this in poli sci in most universities.
R
Richardols
Guest
Nice justification to excuse torturers and human rights abusers, by subscribing to the “yes, they are bastards, but they’re our bastards” rule of diplomacy.
C
cestusdei
Guest
Rich,
Well we did in WWII when we had to deal with Stalin. You don’t seem to mind that. Sometimes we have to deal with bastards. Heck we even deal with the French when we have too and look at what they are up to in Africa. But when those “bastards” are a threat to us then yes we do have to fight them. Every nation does this. It is called self-defense. We can’t get rid of all of them, but we can get rid of some of the worst.
Well we did in WWII when we had to deal with Stalin. You don’t seem to mind that. Sometimes we have to deal with bastards. Heck we even deal with the French when we have too and look at what they are up to in Africa. But when those “bastards” are a threat to us then yes we do have to fight them. Every nation does this. It is called self-defense. We can’t get rid of all of them, but we can get rid of some of the worst.
R
Richardols
Guest
Stalin was NEVER “our” bastard.
You seem to be amenable to it only when the right wing does it.
Who are you equating France to? France, rightly in my opinion, opposed the war, but they assist the United States very well indeed when it comes to intelligence, something rightists conveniently overlook.
Iraq? Didn’t turn out to be a threat, did it?
So, you favor more wars of “liberation”? Who’s going to pay for these adventures and where will it end?
M
Matt25
Guest
I am asking you for the source of the statement that he was willing to kill 20-30 million Americans. You have not provided it so I guess its fair to conclude that you just made it up.
That is not true. I cried after September 11 2001, not once or twice but repeatedly and unashamedly. I would do so again is such horrors were once again revisted on your country. At the time French President Chirac said “we are all Americans now” It is a mark of the moral stature of President Bush that he so quickly squandered such a huge reservoir of love and support for the USA.
I do not believe that Osama is a nice guy that really has no bearing on anything that I have said. Likewise I have not supported any dictators or terrorists. What I have done is question the wisdom of US foreign policy. That does not make me an enemy of your country. The Project for a New American Century provided a comprehensive critique of the Clinton Administrations foreign policy. Did that make them traitors? Or is it only Republican Presidents who are above criticism?
S
StJeanneDArc
Guest
I’ve belabored this point before, but there’s no such thing as a “right-wing dictator”. Tyrannies by their very nature are left-wing. Using the organs of government to control people’s lives, suppress dissent, rob them of their property, etc. is leftist. Now I’ll admit that not all leftists are communists in that not all leftist goverments eliminate all private property, some just steal property from one group of people and give it to another group.
F
Faustina
Guest
After reading the letter, a few interesting points came up.
How the Muslims see themselves as the inheritor of Moses and therefore the land of “Palenstine”
The claim of how we “the Americans”, have done all this killing for over 50 years. He does not say “the West”, when Palestine was British controlled and then was handed over to the Israelis to create the Jewish homeland of Israel.
The other point is, their perspective of history. How they consider Abraham to be the father of their religion. If this was true, wouldn’t then Christians, Muslims and Jews all be brothers. Why wouldn’t the Muslims want to share the land with their brothers?
Osama claims that our society has become full of immorality.
I don’t think many can disagree with that. Many have stated that right here on this forum. Along with this, is the claim we have separated laws from religion. Yes, we have done that, however, our forefathers did have our Creator in mind with the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Now, I disagree that going over to Islam is the answer, but a return to Christian values, wouldn’t hurt us.
How the Muslims see themselves as the inheritor of Moses and therefore the land of “Palenstine”
The claim of how we “the Americans”, have done all this killing for over 50 years. He does not say “the West”, when Palestine was British controlled and then was handed over to the Israelis to create the Jewish homeland of Israel.
The other point is, their perspective of history. How they consider Abraham to be the father of their religion. If this was true, wouldn’t then Christians, Muslims and Jews all be brothers. Why wouldn’t the Muslims want to share the land with their brothers?
Osama claims that our society has become full of immorality.
I don’t think many can disagree with that. Many have stated that right here on this forum. Along with this, is the claim we have separated laws from religion. Yes, we have done that, however, our forefathers did have our Creator in mind with the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution. Now, I disagree that going over to Islam is the answer, but a return to Christian values, wouldn’t hurt us.
- Status