Bin Laden's 'letter to America'

[Richardols]

StJeanneDArc:

I’ve belabored this point before, but there’s no such thing as a “right-wing dictator”. Tyrannies by their very nature are left-wing.

Nonsense. Try Pinochet, Salazar, Franco, the Argentinian Junta, and any number of others. Tyranny can come from the right and from the left.

Using the organs of government to control people’s lives, suppress dissent, rob them of their property, etc. is leftist.

Your personal opinion.

Tyranny is an equal opportunity employer, drawing on men of either side of politics.

 

[Richardols]

Faustina:

our forefathers did have our Creator in mind with the writing of the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.

No. The Constitution is a wholly secular document with no reference to God or Jesus Christ. The United States was not founded as a “Christian” nation.

 

[gilliam]

Richardols:

No. The Constitution is a wholly secular document with no reference to God or Jesus Christ. The United States was not founded as a “Christian” nation.

Yet the principles upon which the institutions of the United States were founded are rooted in Christian values. For example the Declaration of Independence. Religion played a large part in the founding of the United States.

That religion was not otherwise addressed in the Constitution did not make it an “irreligious” document any more than the Articles of Confederation was an “irreligious” document. The Constitution dealt with the church precisely as the Articles had, thereby maintaining, at the national level, the religious status quo. In neither document did the people yield any explicit power to act in the field of religion. But the absence of expressed powers did not prevent either the Continental-Confederation Congress or the Congress under the Constitution from sponsoring a program to support general, nonsectarian religion.

See:

Religion and the Founding of the American Republic at the Library of Congress

 

[Richardols]

gilliam:

Yet the principles upon which the institutions of the United States were founded are rooted in Christian values.

The two basic “founding documents” are the Constitution and the Federalist papers. Neither makes reference to Jesus Christ or anything “Christian.” The Declaration of Independence makes reference to a deity, but a vague one, which is consistent with the deism of most of the “founding fathers.”

The treaty with Tripoli signed by John Adams specifically states that the United States is not a Christian country. And the writings of the more prominent founding fathers are quite neutral towards organized religion.

It is true that many colonial statesmen were Christians, but they were careful not to interject Christianity into the founding documents for they were familiar with the dangers of doing such.

 

[gilliam]

Richardols:

The two basic “founding documents” are the Constitution and the Federalist papers. .

Since when? There are no 2 basic founding documents, never have been. There are a number. But I don’t think I would number the The treaty with Tripoli as one of them.

The Declaration of Independence is probably the most important for we return to it over and over again for moral certitude.

Washington in his farewell address advised his fellow citizens that “Religion and morality” were the “great Pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and citizens.” “National morality,” he added, could not exist “in exclusion of religious principle.” “Virtue or morality,” he concluded, as the products of religion, were “a necessary spring of popular government.”

 

[Richardols]

gilliam:

But I don’t think I would number the The treaty with Tripoli as one of them.

I didn’t say it was, but it was a formal treaty and the President affirmed that ours was not a Christian nation.

The Declaration of Independence is probably the most important for we return to it over and over again for moral certitude.

No. The U.S. Constitution is the most important document in the United States. Period.

 

[gilliam]

Richardols:

I didn’t say it was, but it was a formal treaty and the President affirmed that ours was not a Christian nation.

We are not a Christian nation, but our institutions are based upon religious values. This should come as no great shock, even the Supreme Court has said so.

No. The U.S. Constitution is the most important document in the United States. Period.

Correct, I should have said next to the Constitution, the DoI is the most important document.

 

[cestusdei]

Actually the Declaration is our founding document. As any Brit should know since we addressed it to their King. We even politely omitted the fact that Farmer George was insane at the time. The Constitution came later to provide a better framework then the Articles of Confederation. Certainly it is of pivotal importance. But nonetheless the Declaration is what made us Americans rather then mere Colonials.

 

[Shoshana]

gilliam:

We are not a Christian nation, but our institutions are based upon religious values. This should come as no great shock, even the Supreme Court has said so.

.

gilliam…of all the posts I have read of yours, I do not recall you admitting that the US is not a Christian nation…have a great Lent…

blessings,
Shoshana