Birth control and non-Catholics

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Jennifer_J said:
The different methods of NFP had various focal points:
Billings–Mucous only observations, both internal and external

Sympto-thermal–basal temps, mucous observations (internal and external), and cervix position

Creighton–standardized mucous observations–external only

Marquete model–adds ovulation monitors (clear blue easy fertility monitor) to sympto-thermal or mucous methods.

These variations have nothing to do with effectiveness–though some methods work better for some women than others (many women don’t like to take temps or would prefer not to check cervix, etc). NFP is as effective as the person who uses it and chooses to follow the guidelines. I have used NFP off and on for over 11 years. It works great and is as effective as dh and I want it to be. We just happen to be very open to having children.

BTW, None of these methods involve palpatating the vulva, because that wouldn’t tell you anything. at all. nothing. about your fertility.

My doc is popular because he is NFP only, a devout Catholic and a good doc. He’s respectful of his patients and values human life from conception to natural death.

–no shortage of docs in my area
–not overbooked anymore than any other doc
–he’s a family doc and delivers babies, the whole family sees him
–I doubt his patients are always sick and pregnant :rolleyes:

I highly doubt you are a doctor and I highly doubt that you know anything in depth about NFP other than misinformation you picked up from somewhere.
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The ‘misinformation’ I picked up was listed on the Catholic family portion of this forum, discussing the various methods and failures thereof. The palpation of the vulva was mentioned, along with wiggling the cervix and checking the cervical mucus, as the vulva (apparently) becomes softer during (?before?) ovulation–I have no idea, as I never used or advised using any of these techniques–but if you check that portion of the forum, you will find all of this discussed in detail, together with all the children conceived using these techniques. that’s where I learned about all of this. There are a number of highly effective barrier techniques that are more reliable than any of this–the diaphragm, the sponge, to name two.

Yep, I’m an MD, in good standing, practicing, with licenses in 4 states. Sorry.
 
mark_a said:
I can agree here. I have no desire to inform myself about or discuss these things with my wife.

I guess it would be safe to assume you are not a gynocologist.

and from each other, as the popes have warned us.

The Catholic Church cannot be in schism. Only the people who leave it can be in schism
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Re your by word that LUTHER AND CALVIN SHARPLY CONDEMNED contraception.

It doesn’t matter what they condemned. They were fallible men speaking for their time. they were leaders, dissenters, reformers, not saints, not popes. No non-Catholic Christian blindly follows the beliefs of anyone who has gone before.

By making this allegation, you completely miss the point of the Reformation and the nature of Protestant belief.

You say the Catholic Church can’t be in schism. No, but people can stop supporting it by the millions and stop attending its services and supporting its priests. Bankruptcies, churches closing, schools, seminaries, convents and parishes closing, parishes sharing a priest.

I notice that Benedict doesn’t wast his breath on birth-control. Nor do the vast majority of priests in the US–those that are left, that is.
 
1234 said:
The ‘misinformation’ I picked up was listed on the Catholic family portion of this forum, discussing the various methods and failures thereof. The palpation of the vulva was mentioned, along with wiggling the cervix and checking the cervical mucus, as the vulva (apparently) becomes softer during (?before?) ovulation–I have no idea, as I never used or advised using any of these techniques–but if you check that portion of the forum, you will find all of this discussed in detail, together with all the children conceived using these techniques. that’s where I learned about all of this. There are a number of highly effective barrier techniques that are more reliable than any of this–the diaphragm, the sponge, to name two.

Yep, I’m an MD, in good standing, practicing, with licenses in 4 states. Sorry.
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When my husband and I were first married (25 years ago), I had a Catholic doctor; and even he did NOT recommend NFP, but I was not comfortable with the birth control pill. My doctor recommended the diaphragm with spermicide; that was very effective for the 10 years when we used it, and it had no side effects. My husband had a vasectomy at the age of 37, and I had to have a hysterectomy 5 years later.

My husband and I felt that birth control was a matter of common sense and moral responsibility, and we were always in agreement on the methods to be used.
 
Priscilla_Ann said:
When my husband and I were first married (25 years ago), I had a Catholic doctor; and even he did NOT recommend NFP, but I was not comfortable with the birth control pill. My doctor recommended the diaphragm with spermicide; that was very effective for the 10 years when we used it, and it had no side effects. My husband had a vasectomy at the age of 37, and I had to have a hysterectomy 5 years later.

My husband and I felt that birth control was a matter of common sense and moral responsibility, and we were always in agreement on the methods to be used.
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Good show, PA.

Our story is virtually identical.
 
1234 said:
…

I notice that Benedict doesn’t wast his breath on birth-control. Nor do the vast majority of priests in the US–those that are left, that is.
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I don’t know about Pope Benedict XVI. But concerning bishops, at least here in Canada, you make a valid point. Not only did/do a significant number not speak out on abortion, but they participated in this “Winnipeg Statement”, which really was a scholar’s lesson in prevarication.

My brother is a doctor; so I do respect doctors, - especially the philanthropists, but the first-hand experiences of my family with certain of that profession has not always been rosy (could pm you a couple of examples if you wish, so as not to stray too far off the thread subject). It wasn’t so much a case of lack of skill as it was extremely sick demeanor - not at all in harmony with the Hippocratic Oath.

This Winnipeg Statement contributed to what we have today in Canada which is no abortion law. Abortion, which originally we were told was only for those women whose “health” depended on it is anything but today. Canada aborts more than 2,000 unborn children per week. 22% of all pregnancies in the US end in abortion. Those figures should seem at least a little staggering - even to proponents of abortion. Here,in the province of Quebec, a doctor told me that the province has to bring in betwenn 50,000 and 100,000 immigrants each year just to keep the population from declining.

Then bit by bit, the radical non-mainstream influenced government into passing all sorts of bills and making laws to “protect” them (I don’t know…?? from what). These in turn are used to make the public think a certain way.

The memorial service for 911 was a good example. In the US near ground zero, Jesus’ name was mentioned by the appropriate ministers at the joint -religious memorial service.

In our nation’s capital, Ottawa, at our memorial service they were afraid to “offend” non-Christians so Jesus’ name wasn’t mentioned in prayer by Christian ministers. If I recall correctly, I don’t even know if they mentioned God’s name (so what…? they wouldn’t offend the atheists? For crying out loud - it’s a ***prayer ***service! How many atheists would be attending?)

My memory is a little foggy now but I believe at that service the only minister who had the good sense (more likely the intestinal fortitude) to mention God’s name was a Rabbi.

That memorial service was a clear indicator that something is wrong. In Canada you have to be “politically correct”. We now promote an inversion of moral values. Freedom of speech is only a concept here. If you dare to speak out against abortion, you’re an intolerant, a chavinist. If you speak out against gay marriage you’re a hate monger. The idea seems to be that you mustn’t offend anybody except those with good sound moral values…by telling them to shut up or they’ll be charged with a hate crime.
The majority of Canadian society is, if not paralyzed, then at least partially stifled by political correctness.

A Franciscan friend of mine told me this in jest, but I wonder if we’re not too far away from the day. He said:

Here in Canada, because we must be so politically correct, we aren’t even allowed to say someone is dead anymore; we have to say they are “metabolically challenged”.
 
1234 said:
The ‘misinformation’ I picked up was listed on the Catholic family portion of this forum, discussing the various methods and failures thereof. The palpation of the vulva was mentioned, along with wiggling the cervix and checking the cervical mucus, as the vulva (apparently) becomes softer during (?before?) ovulation–I have no idea, as I never used or advised using any of these techniques–but if you check that portion of the forum, you will find all of this discussed in detail, together with all the children conceived using these techniques. that’s where I learned about all of this. There are a number of highly effective barrier techniques that are more reliable than any of this–the diaphragm, the sponge, to name two.

Yep, I’m an MD, in good standing, practicing, with licenses in 4 states. Sorry.
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You either misunderstood the posting or something…got the link or can you find it?? because I know a lot about each of the types of NFP and not a single one has anything to do with checking the vulva…the cervix check is for it’s position and whether it is open or closed–nothing more or less. I also mostly hang out in the family forum and the parenting forum here and have NEVER heard of this…looking for further clarification from you, because you seem to be very confused and wrong about NFP…
 
1234 said:
Most people trust their doctors.
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In my experience, I have reached a certain comfort level with my doctors.

In other words I interupt his poor diagnosis while he’s writing my prescription before I’ve finished describing my symptoms.

Everyone needs to be chewed up once in a while, even doctors.
 
mark_a said:
In my experience, I have reached a certain comfort level with my doctors.

In other words I interupt his poor diagnosis while he’s writing my prescription before I’ve finished describing my symptoms.

Everyone needs to be chewed up once in a while, even doctors.
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…lol…lol…lol…
 
Gee… I guess my diocese and priest are exceptional then…They do speak out against abortion and birth control and I suppose my dd’s school is exceptional too then… they teach TOTB for teens… Glad to know I am surrounded by exceptional clergy!
 
I’m a protestant. I don’t believe it is ever ok to use any form of BC that messes with the way your body works (unless that is needed for another medical reason) or could even possibly work as an abortificant. That effectively removes most BC options right from the start. Then I have a latex allergy so that removes another chunk from the list I would consider acceptable.

Birth Control pills, IUD etc mess with how your body works when you are not even sick. To me this is no different than taking meds you don’t need for any other reason… they fall right in line with recreational drugs IMO.

I don’t need to “fix” my body so it cant be pregnant. It works fine as is, thanks. I am much less resistant to methods that don’t alter your system… barrier methods for example.
 
Syele said:
I’m a protestant. I don’t believe it is ever ok to use any form of BC that messes with the way your body works (unless that is needed for another medical reason) or could even possibly work as an abortificant. That effectively removes most BC options right from the start. Then I have a latex allergy so that removes another chunk from the list I would consider acceptable.

Birth Control pills, IUD etc mess with how your body works when you are not even sick. To me this is no different than taking meds you don’t need for any other reason… they fall right in line with recreational drugs IMO.

I don’t need to “fix” my body so it cant be pregnant. It works fine as is, thanks. I am much less resistant to methods that don’t alter your system… barrier methods for example.
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Can I hear a great big AMEN!!!
 
Sepharad said:
I’d be interested to know how many non-Catholics do not believe in using artificial birth control?

I was just reading an article that said MOST Catholics use some form of artificial birth control. That really shocked me because I thought the percentage would be much lower than that.

I’m kind of an oddball, because I’ve never used what I call “invasive” birth control (the pill, IUD, a patch, a shot, or any of that stuff.) Not because I have religious views against it, but because I’m one of those “earth mother” types who believes in living naturally as much as possible. I don’t even take prescription drugs or OTC meds if I can at all avoid it! So I’m certainly not going to take some drug with unseen side effects, just to avoid pregnancy, or let them insert some sort of wire thingie inside me that could damage my insides.

We did use condoms and diaphragms when we were first married, but then we both took a 4 month class in Natural Family Planning which was held at a local Catholic church hall. We used NFP to achieve the pregnancies of our three children (I tended to have very irregular periods due to PCOS, and so NFP was a boon for us…without it, I never would have known when I was ovulating!)

With my last child, unfortunately I had a major uterine rupture which necessitated them removing the uterus and an ovary ((it was damaged in the rupture). I don’t miss the uterus (!), but I do miss the ability to use NFP because it was a very scientific form of what I call “body knowledge”, and it even worked to help my dr diagnose a medical condition unrelated to pregnancy, which is often signaled by abnormally high early morning basal body temps!

I can’t say enough about NFP, because it really helps a woman get familiar with her body, and it even helps give you a better body image because it shows you how well your body works! I just wish I could still use it.

I’d be interested in knowing if any other non-Catholics have used NFP, and what you think of it. Also, do you have anti-birth control views as well?

This family is Protestant and I KNOW they don’t believe in birth control! duggarfamily.com
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There are many Protestants who do not practice birth control.
 
mark_a said:
BlestOne,

Do you disagree with the Catholic Church’s teaching regarding barrier methods as Syele states below?

If so why?

Or do I need to read the entire thread?
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No… I don’t disagree with the Church’s teaching what I meant by AMEN was that I agreed with what Syele said in the post I quoted… and I am also allergic to latex so barrier methods would be out for me to if I was so inclined… I actually got rushed from a dentist to the ER because of my allergy… but by no means do I think barrier methods are acceptable as it interferes with the unitive aspect of the marital embrace.
 
BlestOne said:
No… I don’t disagree with the Church’s teaching what I meant by AMEN was that I agreed with what Syele said in the post I quoted… and I am also allergic to latex so barrier methods would be out for me to if I was so inclined… I actually got rushed from a dentist to the ER because of my allergy… but by no means do I think barrier methods are acceptable as it interferes with the unitive aspect of the marital embrace.
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Thanks for the thoughtful response.
 
mark_a said:
In my experience, I have reached a certain comfort level with my doctors.

In other words I interupt his poor diagnosis while he’s writing my prescription before I’ve finished describing my symptoms.

Everyone needs to be chewed up once in a while, even doctors.
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Most need a reality check with each and every patient. (especially those who think they are trusted)
 
Indyann said:
Most need a reality check with each and every patient. (especially those who think they are trusted)
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Once I find a dr I do trust, I tend to stay with them no matter what, even if I move away, I still return to see only them.

I recently switched primary doctors for the first time since 1984, because now, we really do live too far away to go back to my other one. My new dr thinks like I do on Big Pharma…he will only prescribe drugs as a last resort, preferring natural methods first.

After seeing what drugs did to my mother, I will do whatever I can to avoid them. Thank God (touch wood!), I am almost 50 and have never had to be on any prescription drugs longterm for anything in my entire life. I hope that by maintaining a very healthy diet and active aerobics and strength training regimen, it will stay that way.

So…thinking like that, why in the WORLD would I even consider doing something like taking birth control pills, or using an IUD? Yecch!
 
I don’t believe in using birth control either. Not because it is or isn’t evil or a sin but…

It seems to me that no matter what you do to prevent it, if God wants you to have a child - YOU are going to get pregnant. Plain and simple. Contraception, to me, is like telling God - Hey! I am in charge of the plan now, if I don’t wanna baby I ain’t gonna have one… then God laughs and 9 months later you got a crying & pooping ‘plan’. LOL

In all seriousness… You can’t tell God what to do, if He wants you to have a baby - no matter what you do to prevent it, you are gonna have one. 😊
 
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