Birth Control

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rv921

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My wife of 5 years and I do not practice artificial means of birth control but use the “rhythm method”. Are we commiting a mortal sin if we ocasionally have sex which does not include intercourse but does cause us to reach orgasm?
 
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rv921:
My wife of 5 years and I do not practice artificial means of birth control but use the “rhythm method”. Are we commiting a mortal sin if we ocasionally have sex which does not include intercourse but does cause us to reach orgasm?
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You would now that you know it is. YES.
 
Check out www.tcoyf.com invest the 30 dollars and learn how to chart her fertility signs. The rhythym method, isn’t a method it is merely chance. Knowing your signs will increase the knowledge and number of non-fertile days, so you won’t be in siutations to frustrate each other during fertile days.
 
If I read you correctly, it sounds like what you are describing is mutual masturbation, so yes, it would be gravely wrong.

Scott
 
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rv921:
My wife of 5 years and I do not practice artificial means of birth control but use the “rhythm method”. Are we commiting a mortal sin if we ocasionally have sex which does not include intercourse but does cause us to reach orgasm?
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Yes. The act you describe is a sterile act, contraceptive by its very nature.

Also, please clarify when you say “rhythm method” because modern NFP is not the same thing. Please visit www.ccli.org to find out about modern Natural Family Planning.
 
Gravely wrong? Why in the world?
How in any way is the act that rv921 describes any different from what would be accomplished by natural family planning? Both are “sterile” sex acts, aren’t they?
Goodness, I can think of a lot of grave sins that we need to fight in this world, but this is not one of them.
 
Considering that it involves engaging in sexual activity, and simultaneously and deliberately frustrating its procreative potential, it’s disordered, and thus unethical, and therefore, sinful.

NFP doesn’t do that since it involves not having sex at certain times. There’s a difference between having sex and not having sex: when you don’t have sex, you’re unable to deliberately frustrate its procreative potential.
 
This is an area I know little of :o . However, my curiosity is peaked. When I went through Marriage prep and NFP both instructors, one a priest another a nun said that it was OK to use “alternative” sex, i.e. oral, during times of fertility. Their reasoning was that both were married and open to life so both criteria were fulfilled. However, I pushed and the response I got to the question was, “What about people who can’t have children - are they not allowed to get married or have sex?” I was stumped.:confused:

Can someone lead me through in baby steps through the arguement and give me as much evidence as possible. I think I’ll copy or send them the info!😃
 
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Dismas2004:
However, I pushed and the response I got to the question was, “What about people who can’t have children - are they not allowed to get married or have sex?”
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There’s a difference.

Contraception and “alternative sex” involves the *deliberate *frustration of the procreative dimension of the conjugal act. Infertile spouses don’t deliberately frustrate that dimension. Neither do fertile couples when they engage in sex during non-fertile periods.
 
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nolai:
may I ask… what isn’t a sin with u people???
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anthing that complies with the natural and/or divine law. Wht we are simpky discussing is taking one of the PURPOSES out of a natural act.
If you eat for pleasure and not sustinence, or you only give yourself minimal sustincence by your own will, you have a eating disorder. if you have sex for pleasure and disregard procreation or unity you have a sex disorder.
 
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nolai:
may I ask… what isn’t a sin with u people???
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“u people”?

by that I assume you are referring to Catholics?

I believe your profile lists you as a Catholic…I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

What is sinful is clearly defined by this religion. If you’d like one where you can make up the rules as you go there are many to choose from.

I don’t always understand the rules, but I understand that they are there for my protection and the protection of society.

And to address the issue of " God made me in His image, therefore nothing could be wrong with me"… we live in a Fallen world.

By that logic, serial killers and pedophiles should be allowed to act on their urges because they too are children of God.

And just so you know, I used to be agnostic and totally believed that God would accept me no matter what I did or who I was.

Now I have come to realize that although God LOVES all of His children, He does not ACCEPT us and our sins. He wants us to come to him and follow the laws that He made for us so we can spend eternity with Him.

Malia
 
Feanaro’s Wife said:
“u people”?

by that I assume you are referring to Catholics?

I believe your profile lists you as a Catholic…I am sure you will correct me if I am wrong.

What is sinful is clearly defined by this religion. If you’d like one where you can make up the rules as you go there are many to choose from.

I don’t always understand the rules, but I understand that they are there for my protection and the protection of society.

And to address the issue of " God made me in His image, therefore nothing could be wrong with me"… we live in a Fallen world.

By that logic, serial killers and pedophiles should be allowed to act on their urges because they too are children of God.

And just so you know, I used to be agnostic and totally believed that God would accept me no matter what I did or who I was.

Now I have come to realize that although God LOVES all of His children, He does not ACCEPT us and our sins. He wants us to come to him and follow the laws that He made for us so we can spend eternity with Him.

Malia
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Two Cheers for you and your Family!!!:clapping: :dancing: ok two smileys!
 
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sbcoral:
Gravely wrong? Why in the world?
How in any way is the act that rv921 describes any different from what would be accomplished by natural family planning? Both are “sterile” sex acts, aren’t they?
Goodness, I can think of a lot of grave sins that we need to fight in this world, but this is not one of them.
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Well this one is a good fight, a great fight, for it involves the means of procreation–first things first. Orgasm must always be a “proper inside job”–if you know what I mean by that–for two married persons. It has to be where God intended it should be.

Peace, so be it.
 
Isn’t it nitpicking to differentiate between natural family planning and, um, “alternate” sexual practices as described above? The intent of both is the exact same - sexual pleasure (and promoting a loving, physical relationship between spouses) without making babies.

Cast me into the fires of Gehenna, if my wife and I are committing grave sins by occasionally trying to spice up our sex lives. This is certainly a “sin” I’m never going to confess or regret.
 
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sbcoral:
Isn’t it nitpicking to differentiate between natural family planning and, um, “alternate” sexual practices as described above? The intent of both is the exact same - sexual pleasure (and promoting a loving, physical relationship between spouses) without making babies.

Cast me into the fires of Gehenna, if my wife and I are committing grave sins by occasionally trying to spice up our sex lives. This is certainly a “sin” I’m never going to confess or regret.
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No, it is not nitpicking. You and your wife can surely “spice up” your sex life - so long as it ends right. You simply cannot use “alternate” sexual practices as birth control. Any sexual act between husband and wife must include ejaculation within the vagina or it is sinful. It is as simple as that.

Perhaps you will never confess it, but you will regret it - if not in this life, in the next!
 
Joan M:
No, it is not nitpicking. You and your wife can surely “spice up” your sex life - so long as it ends right. You simply cannot use “alternate” sexual practices as birth control. Any sexual act between husband and wife must include ejaculation within the vagina or it is sinful. It is as simple as that.

Perhaps you will never confess it, but you will regret it - if not in this life, in the next!
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Actually, I’ve been told by an apologist at Catholic Answers that the woman can end any way she wants, just so long as the man ends within the vagina.

Scout :tiphat:
 
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sbcoral:
intent of both is the exact same - sexual pleasure (and promoting a loving, physical relationship between spouses) without making babies.
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There’s a difference between working at a bank and robbing a bank. The ends never, ever justify the means.
 
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