BirthControl

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Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
You are correct, those are excellent reasons for abortion … I mean, contraception. Wait, I guess they work for both. Hmmm, maybe the church has it figured out after all.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
By the same token, people who are taking contraceptives because they have self-identified themselves as unfit for parenthood, shouldn’t be having sex. Apart from the unitive AND pro-creative purposes of the sex act, it is neither a right nor a necessity of life to engage in sex (unlike, say, like eating. A person won’t DIE if they don’t have sex) --it is simply using another person for your own pleasure.
 
As your profile says you are fundamentalist, I will give you some reasons the Bible tells us not to use birth control:

Genesis 1:2 God blessed them and God said to them “Be fruitful and mulitply, and fill the earth…”

Genesis 9:1 God blessed Noah and his sons, and said to them, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth.”

Genesis 9:7 And you, be fruitful and mulitply, abound on the earth and mulitply in it.

Genesis 38:9-10 But since Onan knew that the offspring would not be his, he spilled his semen on the ground whenever he went in to his brother’ s wife, so that he would not give offsping to his brother. What he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord, and he put him to death also.

Psalm 127:3-5 Sons are indeed a heritage from the Lord, the fruit of the womb reward. Like arrows in the hand of warrior are the sons of one’s youth, Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them…

Mark 10:14 But when Jesus saw this he was indignant and said, “Let the little children come to me; do not stop them for it is to such as these that the kingdom of God belongs.”

So, to summarize: God repeatedly tells humans to be fruitful and multiply. God strikes dead Onan for spilling semen to prevent conception. God tells us in the psalms that the fruit of the wombs is a reward. And Jesus did not want His disciples from letting children come to Him, so why should we use contraception to prevent ourselves from bringing children into this world to bring to Jesus?

There are many, many discussions about this on the Moral Theology board here at Catholic Answers Forums. But as you posted in Apologetics, I gave you much of the sciptural basis for the teachings against birth control shared by ALL Christian Churches until the early 1930’s. I strongly suggest every Christian using birth control read the Bible and pray about this topic.
 
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gardenswithkids:
I strongly suggest every Christian using birth control read the Bible and pray about this topic.
And ask yourself the question, “If he were alive today, would Jesus be the type to hand out condoms? Or would he tell us to bring more children into the world to love?”

By the way, I have to apologize for my flippant tone above. I’ve just learned that when someone addresses a post to “you Catholics”, the conversation is usually a bit silly anyway.
 
So, to summarize: God repeatedly tells humans to be fruitful and multiply. God strikes dead Onan for spilling semen to prevent conception. God tells us in the psalms that the fruit of the wombs is a reward. And Jesus did not want His disciples from letting children come to Him, so why should we use contraception to prevent ourselves from bringing children into this world to bring to Jesus?
But we were “Fruitful and Multiplied”. 6 billion of them. Wouldn’t Onan be more like lust which is a sin.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
G. K. Chesterton once wrote that the term “birth control” is a misnomer since it does not control birth but prevents it. And, it is not a form of self control, rather it assumes its users cannot control themselves.

I highly recommend GKC’s The Superstition of Divorce for further wisdom on marriage and related issues.
 
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PNRC:
But we were “Fruitful and Multiplied”. 6 billion of them. Wouldn’t Onan be more like lust which is a sin.
IMHO, contraception is connected *not only *to lust, but also pride and greed, based upon the circumstances you suggest in the original post.
 
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PNRC:
But we were “Fruitful and Multiplied”. 6 billion of them. .
Yes, many have been fruitful and multiplied, but even with 6 billion humans (or whatever the current number) we haven’t yet “filled the earth”. Many cities appear full, but I live in the country and there’s a LOT of open space still available in the world. God didn’t give either Adam or Noah a specific number at which to stop mulitiplying. And dispite what population control advocates and supporters of abortion may tell you, the world is not full. Europe actually has a de-population problem in some areas because abortion and birth control have de-populated parts to the point of causing difficulites in their social structure.
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PNRC:
Wouldn’t Onan be more like lust which is a sin.
And yes again, Onan’s sin is like lust. Lust is the disordered attempt to modify the way God designed sex. Contraception is one component of the sin of lust. Sex that seeks only to satisfy the humans involved, rather than also trying to satisfy God giving glory to Him with our bodies **is **lust. (for further Biblical evidence see I Corinthians 7:13-20 about glorifying God with our bodies.) Contraception, --either the old-fashioned spilling on the ground or the new-fashioned spilling into condoms, diaphrams, severed vesicles, bodies filled with artificial hormones to prevent pregnancy, etc-- seeks to separate the gift of human sexuality from the gift of human life. God designed humans so that when we make love, we often make babies.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
We do not forbid birth control. The Holy Mother Church teaches that artificial birth control is intrinsinctly evil because it encourages men and women to regard each other simply as means to satisfy sexual urges. In fact, the Catechism teaches:

2370 Periodic continence, that is, the methods of birth regulation based on self-observation and the use of infertile periods, is in conformity with the objective criteria of morality.158 These methods respect the bodies of the spouses, encourage tenderness between them, and favor the education of an authentic freedom. In contrast, “every action which, whether in anticipation of the conjugal act, or in its accomplishment, or in the development of its natural consequences, proposes, whether as an end or as a means, to render procreation impossible” is intrinsically evil:159

Thus the innate language that expresses the total reciprocal self-giving of husband and wife is overlaid, through contraception, by an objectively contradictory language, namely, that of not giving oneself totally to the other. This leads not only to a positive refusal to be open to life but also to a falsification of the inner truth of conjugal love, which is called upon to give itself in personal totality. . . . The difference, both anthropological and moral, between contraception and recourse to the rhythm of the cycle . . . involves in the final analysis two irreconcilable concepts of the human person and of human sexuality.160 Catholics believe that, human creatures can, by devoting themselves to the worship of God and the caring for each other, rise above their base needs to regard the opposite sex merely as a means to relieve sexual tension. Thus, the sexual union is one that is to be reserved for the Sacrament of Marriage and the regulation of the number of children one brings into that marriage is to be something the man and woman do TOGETHER.

Does that help you understand, my brother in Christ?
 
LSK, I agree with what you wrote, but I want to add more from the Catechism and the Bible, lest we confuse the original poster. (emphasis below is mine.)

The catechism also teaches in 2367 "Called to give life, spouses share in the creative power and fatherhood of God. (Eph 3:14; Mt 23:9) Married couples should regard it as their proper mission to transmit human life and to educate their children; they should realize that they are thereby cooperating with the love of God the Creator…

Also from the catechism in 2368 “A particular aspect of this responsibility concerns the regulation of procreation. For just reasons, spouses may wish to space the births of their children. **It is their duty to make certain that their desire is not motivated by selfishness **but is in conformity with the generosity appropriate to responsible parenthood. Moreover they should conform their behavior to the objective criteria of morality…”

Biblical support for periodic continence (as mentioned in 2370 which LSK quoted from) can be found in I Corinthians 7:5 Do not deprive one another except perhaps by agreement for a set time, to devote yourselves to prayer, and then come together again, so that Satan may not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.

If a couple has a** just reason** to avoid pregnancy at a particular time, and if they have discerned that this is not out of selfishness, the Church allows regulation of births, but not through artificial contraception. (The Church does not define “just reasons” but leaves it up to individual couples to decide.) St. Paul writes that it is okay for husband and wife to forego marital relations by mutual agreement for a set time. But the Bible and the Church both encourage us to view children as blessings, and to view the transmission of life as an opportunity to cooperate with God in creation.

While the world teaches us otherwise, I think if the original poster prays and reflects on the scriptures he will recognize the truth behind these teachings. I also recommend reading the book The Bible and Birth Control, which I think is offered here for sale here at Catholic Answers.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
You know what? I think you’re right. No one working at McDonalds should be allowed to procreate. I’ll notify the authorities and call the Pope tonight.

Now go apologize to all of the blue-collar workers in the world.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
The church does not forbid birth control. Birth control is merely the spacing and planning of a family.

The Church rightly teaches that contraception is not a moral means of spacing and planning a family. Contraception is not the only means of achieving the spacing and planning of a family.
 
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Jabronie:
You know what? I think you’re right. No one working at McDonalds should be allowed to procreate. I’ll notify the authorities and call the Pope tonight.

Now go apologize to all of the blue-collar workers in the world.
I was not trying to down blue-collar workers but, those working for 5.15 (or whatever it is) an hour I doubt can afford to raise children in a way that would be fitting.
 
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PNRC:
I was not trying to down blue-collar workers but, those working for 5.15 (or whatever it is) an hour I doubt can afford to raise children in a way that would be fitting.
Since when do you decide who can raise children and in what way is “fitting” for those children? Other than abusive situations, I really think it’s not ours to decide.

Not having a lot of money is not abuse. Anyone who can hold down a full-time job in this country will, with God’s help, find a way to have the finances necessary to raise children. We don’t all need all the “extras” of life.
 
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PNRC:
I was not trying to down blue-collar workers but, those working for 5.15 (or whatever it is) an hour I doubt can afford to raise children in a way that would be fitting.
Hmm. My brother and sister and I turned out ok 😃 I thought we were raised quite well. No we didn’t take vacations every year or have a new car even - but God provided. I had a good education and a loving home. My Dad made minimum wage or a couple dollars above most of the time we were young. I wasn’t deprived. 🙂 When you work hard and turn things over to the Lord, good stuff happens. 👍
 
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ElizabethAnne:
Since when do you decide who can raise children and in what way is “fitting” for those children? Other than abusive situations, I really think it’s not ours to decide.

Not having a lot of money is not abuse. Anyone who can hold down a full-time job in this country will, with God’s help, find a way to have the finances necessary to raise children. We don’t all need all the “extras” of life.
Very good point ElizabethAnne. I’ve seen rich kids who are spoiled brats and end up feeling more sorry for them than my boyfriend’s sister who has a child out of wedlock. DB’s niece is the sweetest, funniest, and most lively kid I’ve ever met. Her mom is a single mother working as a receptionist at a dentist office, and I think she’s a more fit parent than mothers who spoil their kids with the extras.

To the Original poster. I think you can think of a better way to address us than “you Catholics.”

Look up Margaret Sanger on google or yahoo. She is the mother of modern birth control. She was a racist and Nazi sympathizer. Her reasoning for birth control was to weed out the unwanted races. And you’ll also notice contraception and abortion providers reside in poor neighborhoods where minorities live. Is that fair?

In response to “there’s already 6 billion of us” who are you to decide that is enough? Countries like France and Australia don’t think so. They are starting to give incentives to couples who will have a 3rd child. (Since 2 seems to be the de facto limit.)

I could go on and on about this subject, but I will ask you to take the liberty to go to catholic.com and read about it. Come back if you have more questions.
 
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PNRC:
Why do you Catholics forbid Birthcontrol? Somepeople would simply make bad partents ant raise bad children and others don’t have the money to support them (People working at McDonalds) and I could go on with the list of reasons some people would be wise in not having children.
granted, there are many good reasons for not having children, ever, or in certain circumstances. Since the purpose of sex is generating children, it follows then, that someone who does not want children will not be having sex.
 
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