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Trelow
Guest
Constant christian teaching until Lambeth in 1930 is good enough for me. Even when I was a Protestant I could never rationalize contraception, it’s just so dang wrong on every level.
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kaymart
Guest
It doesn’t matter if you are two 15 year olds in the back of a pick up truck or a 35 year old married couple with several children, Artifical birth control is against the teachings of the Catholic Church, no debate, no excuses. I know you are young, but you do other “non-sexual” things on the fertile days, true love comes from respecting each other, not acting like two animals in heat.Alright, so the people that are against birthcontrol or articifical contriception usually argue that those who do not which to have children should not be having sex. Very true if they are 15 year olds in the back of a pick-up. But say a Catholic family, that is just making due and already has 4 kids that are hard enough to take care of, are you saying that they should not be allowed to express their love through sex. Well then you might argue that there are natural ways of contriception, so now they have to plan and write in the calander SEX TUESDAY… thats real healthy… come on the one thing this culture doesnt need is more systematic behavior, be spontanteous and live. The biggest deal is, if they decide they do not wish to have kids, you say its ok to just not have sex (repressing their desires… forcing them to lust) or the natural approach, but they cant use artifical… EITHER WAY NO CHILDREN… what difference does it make. Get a grip… use a condom… birthcontrol… just have passionate, loving sex devoted to your lifelong spouse… showing your love is the most beautiful thing
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MikeinSD
Guest
There are a lot of folks who are not traditional Catholics, or even Christian, who want and need access to birth control. Catholic moral laws apply only to practicing Catholics.
Many women prefer not to have 10 live births after 15 pregnancies. And some married couples prefer to have no children. As long as the US is a secular society, birth control will be available.
Also, Catholics use birth control at the same percentage as non-Catholics. Where are the families with 10 to 15 children? Fairly rare nowadays.
Many women prefer not to have 10 live births after 15 pregnancies. And some married couples prefer to have no children. As long as the US is a secular society, birth control will be available.
Also, Catholics use birth control at the same percentage as non-Catholics. Where are the families with 10 to 15 children? Fairly rare nowadays.
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Karin
Guest
I dont think everyone agrees with this.
It should be available…once again not everyone wants to use NFP nor should everyone be forced to follow Church (R.C.) teaching or moral laws…not everyone is Catholic.
Yes where are all the Catholic families with many kids (more than 8 or 10)??
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Flopfoot
Guest
NFP is much more reliable now than it used to be. That’s why there aren’t such large Catholic families any more.
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kaymart
Guest
Not only are people more informed about NFP, other Good Catholic’s like myself who never practiced birth control was unable to have any more then 3 children. It’s that type of rude thinking that makes angry,
you don’t know everyone’s situation and unless you truly do, do not and I repeat do not pass judgement on a small Catholic family and assume they use Artifical Birth Control.
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BlindSheep
Guest
I would question the idea that there are many people doing this. How do you know why people have kids? How would your policy affect the kids already born?Really…that is interesting. So you are all for giving handouts to people that only have kids to get more $$$???
And as to compassion…I have tons of it but I do put my foot down when these people do nothing to help themselves and keep wanting the taxpayers to foot the bill because they can not keep their pants on!
What would you say to a married woman with children who is abandoned by her husband and does not recieve child support? Why should she and her children be subjected to your punitive methods by DSS? This is the currant state of affairs in my state (NY): welfare gives barely enough to live on, requires 30 hours a week of work everyone whose child is more than 6 weeks old (they place people in these jobs); and only provides this assistance for 5 years in a person’s lifetime. People who do not meet these requirements are eligible for food stamps only, which is not calculated to allow a balanced, healthy diet. For full time college students with children (as I am) school & work must total 30 hours a week. To avoid placing my baby in daycare, I make do with student financial aid and forego financial assistance from DSS, except food stamps. I don’t have a car, don’t have cable, and would only be able to afford a one-bedroom apartment for my family of four if not for the kindness of a family member who rents us a house very cheaply. We buy our clothes at thrift stores and I sometimes skip meals to feed my children; and I “keep my pants on”; I am married, don’t date and will not have anything to do with men. Perhaps some day I will get an annulment and remarry; I hope DSS doesn’t tie my tubes first, as you suggest. And what if I were raped and got pregnant? I suppose you would force me to have an abortion.
What do you know about people who recieve welfare, except propaganda?
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Karin
Guest
BlindSheep:
Perhaps should have the courst force the father of your children to supply you with child support! It is his responsibilty…NO?!
As to what you have described…it is not to different from what I experienced as a divorced single mom…the difference is that my ex paid child support, with this extra small bit of money I could stay out of the welfare system. I had to work hard to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table (yes there where times i did not eat so my child could eat) and I never shop even now at Macy’s or Nordstrom and there is Nothing wrong with thrift stores!
What I know about the welfare system is what I see everyday in real life…woman that admit they only have kids to get more $$, and why work when they can stay home and collect $$ that equals if is not more than getting a real job.
Perhaps should have the courst force the father of your children to supply you with child support! It is his responsibilty…NO?!
As to what you have described…it is not to different from what I experienced as a divorced single mom…the difference is that my ex paid child support, with this extra small bit of money I could stay out of the welfare system. I had to work hard to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table (yes there where times i did not eat so my child could eat) and I never shop even now at Macy’s or Nordstrom and there is Nothing wrong with thrift stores!
What I know about the welfare system is what I see everyday in real life…woman that admit they only have kids to get more $$, and why work when they can stay home and collect $$ that equals if is not more than getting a real job.
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BlindSheep
Guest
No, my husband is disabled and on social security and so is not required to pay child support. We get some chld support from Social Security, but not much.
It is convenient for you to assume that anyone who needs help is a lousy, irresponsible person; convenient, but not a Christian attitude at all. Welfare does not provide a life of luxury; I for one would rather see poor children given a decent education and upbringing than punished for the sins of their parents.
If the extra welfare given for an extra family member is not all being used to care for that child, it is likely a case of neglect and should be treated accordingly. If these women were caring for their children properly, they would not have any extra money.
Perhaps instead of money they should recieve vouchers for diapers, baby furniture, children’s clothes, etc.
As far as working goes, caring for young children is a full time job, and the children generally do better with a parent’s care. If the children are in daycare (as they must be in NY), welfare still ends up paying for the daycare. If the children are at home and the mother neglects them, this is a case for CPS; however, I would rather see preschool children home with a loving mother; society would benefit in the long run.
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jediliz
Guest
why do people NEED access to birth control? Sounds like the pro abortion group NOW and Planned Parenthood is saying this…did you know that Margaret Sanger HATED large families? She was the racist hitler loving founder of what became PP. She wanted to extreminant the black race and she hated christians.
Up until 1930, all christians were against artificial birth control. The Catholic Church has always been against it, since the beginning. There’s more to marriage than marital relations.
I went to school with a guy who had 7 kids in his family (and 2 more were born later on for a total of 9). Oh wait, I guess he doesn’t count since he was/is Catholic.
Up until 1930, all christians were against artificial birth control. The Catholic Church has always been against it, since the beginning. There’s more to marriage than marital relations.
I went to school with a guy who had 7 kids in his family (and 2 more were born later on for a total of 9). Oh wait, I guess he doesn’t count since he was/is Catholic.
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Karin
Guest
Sorry to hear that…
Not at all…but from what i have seen that is the norm you seem to be the exception
Good thing I am not Christian then
welfare should not provide a life of luxury…that is not what it is for. It is for people like yourself that require it…it is not for people to abuse! Poor kids do get an education…they do go to school dont they? As to a decent upbringing…that is up to their parents isnt it or is it up to society?
Totally agree…but most of the time this is not the case…please not that there are exceptions to this I am sure.
I think that is a wonderful idea! But then they would probably sell these for “real” money.
True, caring for young kids is a full time job…but it is not a job that will provide for a family (food, clothing shelter etc.) so in that sense I do not want to pay so a parent can stay at home to be with her children and not work if she is capable of it. Why should a woman or man for that matter not try and support his or her family?
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BlindSheep
Guest
Not from what I see; I know people who recieve welfare or have in the past, and none of them fit your description. Perhaps you see what you want to see?
Good for whom?
I agree that it should not provide a life of luxury; my point was that it already does not. When I refer to a good education, I refer to such things as abstainence-only sex education, school vouchers and better public schools; most poor kids recieve a lousy education liberally sprinkled with the encouragement of promiscuity, the very thing you are trying to prevent. By a decent upbringing I mean something other than being brought up by a welfare daycare from the age of six weeks; this is proven not to be good for kids.
What about the people who work, but have such a low income they still need welfare? What about people who cannot find work?
You have a very biased view; it is very possible to be poor without being either lazy or immoral. You are lucky that you don’t need help; remember, someday you might.
Maybe. It would be harder; and there would be less excuse if they neglected to provide these things.
Because children require care, and daycare, especially poor quality, full-time daycare for children under 2, results in poorer outcomes statistically; more illness, insecurely attached children with lower IQs, worse behavior and school performance and therefore a greater likelihood of continuing the cycle of poverty. Especially with babies this is harmful, since it discourages breastfeeding which increases IQ and prevents illnesses that Medicaid ends up paying for; welfare also ends up paying for the formula. Where I live, some single mothers stay off welfare by providing daycare in their homes for the children of other single mothers; welfare than reimburses the daycare providers. The expense of waiving or reducing the work requirement for full-time parents of preschool age children would be offset, to some degree, by eliminating the need for daycare, decreasing illness and increasing breastfeeding…
As it is right now, having a baby does not exempt women from the work requirement, as I said; so having babies in order to stay home wouldn’t work; even if it did, caring properly for children does not offer the life of ease these women are looking for. Abuse of the system should certainly be prevented. If people want to stay home with children, only those who provide adequate care should be allowed to do so; perhaps those who have additional children out of wedlock while recieving services should lose this option. However, your dehumanizing proposition of “spaying” poor women is indefensible, and the well-being of children, from all economic backgrounds, is inseperable from the long term well-being of society.
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kaymart
Guest
There are many people recieving some form of public assistance that are good decent HARDWORKING people. I know of a young couple who can not afford health insurance through the husband’s job. They only cover him. The children recieve New Jersey kid care where they PAY a percentage. But when they go to the doctors its still a medicaid card and people look at them like some people on the board here seem to…like they are losers using the system.
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Karin
Guest
Quick question,…do they rely only on his income or do they both work?
I am familiar with the NJ Kid Program (Insurance) not what I am speaking about though in terms of welfare.
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Karin
Guest
No I see what is presented to the rest of the world…if it differs from what you see there is nothing I can do about that.
Whomever
.No agrument there
None of these things have to do with the welfare system…unless in NY welfare kids go to a different kind of school than non-welfare kids.
Than make other arrangments… can’t family, friends or their father watch them?
You have a very biased view; it is very possible to be poor without being either lazy or immoral. You are lucky that you don’t need help; remember, someday you might. Totally agree…not all poor people are lazy or immoral but there are those out there that do fit that descriptions!..As to needing the system…EGAD I sure hope not!
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BlindSheep
Guest
There is little point in arguing this with you any further, since you clearly have little concern about what happens to others and an inflated sense of your own ability to avoid bad circumstances. I can only say that, with your attitudes, I’m glad you don’t claim to be a Christian.
It’s a funny thing; life often forces us to walk a mile in the shoes of those for whom we lack compassion. Good luck.
It’s a funny thing; life often forces us to walk a mile in the shoes of those for whom we lack compassion. Good luck.
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kaymart
Guest
What difference would that make? They are not getting a check from your tax dollars. They pay a percentage of their health care to the State of NJ. They do not have health Insurance for their 4 children because they have to pay out of pocket over $150 every two weeks. They did, have insurance when they had the children, but company cut backs force this one them. My point is people see the medicaid card and the comments are made. (I went with to the Doctors and the nurse asked a little to loud for her Medicaid card and I was sitting there and heard the crude comments about her keeping her legs closed.)
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kaymart
Guest
Karin… Maybe the woman (I metioned earlier) should have had a crystal ball and then she could seen her future, and use BC so people like you should not be burdened by such people. As for your question, no, she does not work, do you know what daycare for a 18 month old, a set of 3 year old twins and after school care for a 5 year old child in half day Kindergarten would cost?, more money then she makes! (they make to much money to get help with daycare) No relatives either to watch them Mother is dead. Aunts live far away, and friends, they have there own children and/or childcare worries. Yes, I agree some people abuse the system, but as the human race (see, I did not metion Religion so you can’t throw this back in our faces) But as decent human beings we can not turn our back on others or scornfully look at them as if they are dirt below your feet. People like you see the medicaid card pulled out in an office and right away you summed up that person in one word—TRASH, am I right? I am right, because the way you are posting here is full of hate and disgust of your fellow human being who is down on his/her luck.
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DailyBread
Guest
People who would make bad parents would make bad couples so why should they get married or be having sex?
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Karin
Guest
I totally agree…no point in arguing about this any further. Actually you are sadly mistaken…I do have concern for others but I also feel that many times people put themselves in situations.
Yes, I have a good sense of money managment and investment…
it was has enabled me to reitre at a young age, it was has also enabled me to avoid the welfare system.
And once again if you read what people actually write you will see that I have been in your shoes but I refused to go into the system…I found other soltutions for myself and my children.
So Good luck to you and yours!
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