Births to unmarried U.S. women set record

[Karin]

GregoryPalamas:

I still believe that 99% of all divorces are uneccesary and damaging to both parties and especially damaging to children. The only thing worse than divorce is shacking up and having children. It all goes back to the Theology of the Body. If women and men took their God given roles seriously there would be neither divorce or shacking up.

Dan L

Well the Church perhaps does not view it that way since a good majority (my opinion) can get an annulment after their civil divorce.
And not all divorce is bad…why stay with a spouse that abuses you (that is not good for kids either)…why stay with a spouse that repeatedly has affairs (that is not good either for the kids)…why stay with a spouse that you simply do not love or honor anymore (that is also no good for a kid).
The simple thing is that while not all divorces may be good and good for the kids you need to way the risk and damage staying in a bad marriage (so to speak) would cause for you and your kids.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Karin:

Ok I am going to step in it here but I have to ask…just what are their respective roles?

Karin,

Your first role is to read Ephesians 5 and The Theology of the Body.

As I’ve stated several times already, men are to love, protect, defend and die for women.

Women are to choose wisely and respect the men they choose.

It is so simple. Yet the old feminists have been such good instruments of the devil that everyone thinks that blaming others for their problems is the only way to exist. They’ve lied to us.

As a woman, simply admit your mistake, and either seek reconciliation or anulment.

For the men, hang out with quality women and don’t pressure them to have intercourse before marriage.

It really is simple.

Dan L, who has only had intercourse with my one and only wife whom he has served and loved for 381/2 years and who receives respect daily from his beloved bride.

 

[GregoryPalamas]

Wabrams and Karin,

Sadly, I must be off to work. I’ll get back to this later today. This is turning into a good discussion. I appreciate Buffalo’s perspective quite a lot.

Dan L

 

[Karin]

GregoryPalamas:

Karin,

Your first role is to read Ephesians 5 and The Theology of the Body. **Ok when I have some free time I will! **

As I’ve stated several times already, men are to love, protect, defend and die for women. Sounds great…lucky me second husband would do just that!

Women are to choose wisely and respect the men they choose. Well one bad choice but got it right the second time. What about woman that can not seem to pick men?

It is so simple. Yet the old feminists have been such good instruments of the devil that everyone thinks that blaming others for their problems is the only way to exist. They’ve lied to us.** I never blamed anyone but myself** for marrying my first husband…nor have I ever blamed anyone else for my mistakes!

As a woman, simply admit your mistake, and either seek reconciliation or anulment. I did admit my mistake,…divorce, annulment and remarriage to a wonderful man!

For the men, hang out with quality women and don’t pressure them to have intercourse before marriage. The way you are talking it sounds like there are not that many quality woman out there…they have all been corupted!

Dan L, who has only had intercourse with my one and only wife whom he has served and loved for 381/2 years and who receives respect daily from his beloved bride.

 

[MooCowSteph]

Bella3502:

Yep, it does happen alot. But not just “especially in the black communities”. It happens “especially” in the white and hispanic communities as well. It depends on who is telling the story and who is manipulating the stats.

The mentality here is “damned if you do, and damned if you don’t.” No wonder so many women choose abortion as the quiet way out.

I was not implying that only black communities face single parent households. I was commenting on the fact that a higher percentage of black women than white women are raising their children without the benefit of a father, or at least without the benefit of a husband. I’ve seen varying statistics, but according to this article aprox. 70% of black children are born to single mothers. Part of that problem is that many black children are born to very young mothers. And according to the population Reference Bureau, “In 2002, about 5 percent of non-Hispanic white and Asian households were headed by women with children. In contrast, single mothers with kids accounted for 22 percent of all black households. The percentage of Hispanic households headed by women with kids falls in between these two estimates, at about 14 percent. Over the past 25 years, the percentage of female-headed households with children has increased particularly rapidly among blacks, but this trend appears to have slowed during the last five years”.

 

[buffalo]

wabrams:

I’m in no way a fan of divorce, but what would you consider acceptable reasons for divorce?

The Catechism teaches:

Divorce

[2382](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2382.htm’) The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

[2383](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2383.htm’) The *separation *of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

[2384](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2384.htm’) *Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178 2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

[2386](javascriptpenWindow(‘cr/2386.htm’) It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179

 

[kaymart]

Divorce would be less frequent if people took the time to find a suitable person in every way. To jump into Marriage with the idea in the back of your head that you can get a divorce later if it doesn’t work out, is a sad situation. To many women think they can change his “bad boy ways” with a lot of love, but all these women are doing is setting themselves up for heartache later. Same thing goes for men, expecting that “free-sprit, career girl” would want to settle down and have lots of babies, just because she married him. We must choose our spouses wisely.:yup:

 

[wabrams]

buffalo:

The Catechism teaches:

Divorce

2382 The Lord Jesus insisted on the original intention of the Creator who willed that marriage be indissoluble.174 He abrogates the accommodations that had slipped into the old Law.175

Between the baptized, "a ratified and consummated marriage cannot be dissolved by any human power or for any reason other than death."176

2383 The *separation *of spouses while maintaining the marriage bond can be legitimate in certain cases provided for by canon law.177

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

2384 *Divorce *is a grave offense against the natural law. It claims to break the contract, to which the spouses freely consented, to live with each other till death. Divorce does injury to the covenant of salvation, of which sacramental marriage is the sign. Contracting a new union, even if it is recognized by civil law, adds to the gravity of the rupture: the remarried spouse is then in a situation of public and permanent adultery:

If a husband, separated from his wife, approaches another woman, he is an adulterer because he makes that woman commit adultery, and the woman who lives with him is an adulteress, because she has drawn another’s husband to herself.178 2385 Divorce is immoral also because it introduces disorder into the family and into society. This disorder brings grave harm to the deserted spouse, to children traumatized by the separation of their parents and often torn between them, and because of its contagious effect which makes it truly a plague on society.

2386 It can happen that one of the spouses is the innocent victim of a divorce decreed by civil law; this spouse therefore has not contravened the moral law. There is a considerable difference between a spouse who has sincerely tried to be faithful to the sacrament of marriage and is unjustly abandoned, and one who through his own grave fault destroys a canonically valid marriage.179

Unless I’m reading this wrong, unless a spouse cheats, then you can’t get divorced.

 

[buffalo]

kaymart:

Divorce would be less frequent if people took the time to find a suitable person in every way. To jump into Marriage with the idea in the back of your head that you can get a divorce later if it doesn’t work out, is a sad situation. To many women think they can change his “bad boy ways” with a lot of love, but all these women are doing is setting themselves up for heartache later. Same thing goes for men, expecting that “free-sprit, career girl” would want to settle down and have lots of babies, just because she married him. We must choose our spouses wisely.:yup:

This is why we need to get back to Courtship - (Romance God’s way) - but who teaches this old fashioned stuff anymore?

 

[buffalo]

wabrams:

Unless I’m reading this wrong, unless a spouse cheats, then you can’t get divorced.

You missed this:

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

 

[wabrams]

buffalo:

You missed this:

If civil divorce remains the only possible way of ensuring certain legal rights, the care of the children, or the protection of inheritance, it can be tolerated and does not constitute a moral offense.

Gotcha.

 

[kaymart]

buffalo:

This is why we need to get back to Courtship - (Romance God’s way) - but who teaches this old fashioned stuff anymore?

Unfortunately very few people. Children are dating in the 5th grade, parents put their daughters on the pill in H.S., and hand condoms to their sons. It’s not courtship anymore, it’s sex. That’s were the adults should come in. But unfortunately many of the young people today were raised by selfish baby boomers whose theme was “If you not with the one you love, love the one your with” then later became yuppies who were so wrapped up in “getting there” that they left the care of their children to others. No wonder their theme is “just do it”

 

[Anglican77]

Karin:

Can’t the local church help her?
Does she not recieve child support…even if he (father) does not pay on time they (State) can garnish his wages and get her the $$ this is what I do…and I always get my $$ each month.
Egads…I really hope that there is another solution than sitting on her butt for the next 3 years…can she not look for a job where perhaps the company has on site daycare?

Being a college student and a single mom hardly equates to sitting on your butt for the next 3 years.

 

[Anglican77]

wabrams:

I’m in no way a fan of divorce, but what would you consider acceptable reasons for divorce?

Repeated physical abuse to both wife and children.

 

[Karin]

Anglican77:

Being a college student and a single mom hardly equates to sitting on your butt for the next 3 years.

**Climb off your horse…I was quoting her sister:who if you read the post stated that even with a college degree (see she is not going to school all- done) she still may not be able to afford to work… **
*Originally Posted by Siena
***YES!!! My sis that I posted about earlier- tired of always “being behind”, tried to get a job once in a hospital. ***

She lasted a week, and had to quit after her gov’t “paper trail” caught up to her…

1. Her rent (sliding scale) went from $8 a month to over $400

2. She had to pay for FULL PRICE DAYCARE (while she is in college, it is free)

3. She lost over 1/2 of her food stamps

4. She was in the process of loosing her medical card

---

—You get the point! She would have been over $1000 behind EVERY MONTH!----

She quit, and decided to finish college. She will graduate this spring, but I am worried about what she will do now… Even with a degree, I don’t think she could make enough to support herself and 3 little ones (2 still in daycare- one in 1st gr.) I am afraid she will be forced to sit on her butt for at least 3 more yrs- until her youngest is in school and she dosn’t have to pay daycare.

 

[wabrams]

Anglican77:

Repeated physical abuse to both wife and children.

I wholeheartedly agree.

 

[Anglican77]

**Climb off your horse…I was quoting her sister:who if you read the post stated that even with a college degree (see she is not going to school all- done) she still may not be able to afford to work… **
Originally Posted by Siena
***YES!!! My sis that I posted about earlier- tired of always “being behind”, tried to get a job once in a hospital. ***

She lasted a week, and had to quit after her gov’t “paper trail” caught up to her…

1. Her rent (sliding scale) went from $8 a month to over $400

2. She had to pay for FULL PRICE DAYCARE (while she is in college, it is free)

3. She lost over 1/2 of her food stamps

4. She was in the process of loosing her medical card

---

—You get the point! She would have been over $1000 behind EVERY MONTH!----

She quit, and decided to finish college. She will graduate this spring, but I am worried about what she will do now… Even with a degree, I don’t think she could make enough to support herself and 3 little ones (2 still in daycare- one in 1st gr.) I am afraid she will be forced to sit on her butt for at least 3 more yrs- until her youngest is in school and she dosn’t have to pay daycare.

Well then the response applies to both postings. Why are you so defensive and quick to attack? I was simply stating my opinion on college students and single mothers, not attacking you, and I don’t think the “climb off your horse” comment was warranted.

 

[Karin]

Anglican77:

Well then the response applies to both postings. Why are you so defensive and quick to attack? I was simply stating my opinion on college students and single mothers, not attacking you, and I don’t think the “climb off your horse” comment was warranted.

Defensive…because I felt I was attacked for my comment which actually was not mine but a quote from someone else. Your comment (original) does not apply to either response actually- if you read the posters comments I was responding to.
And no I do not equate being a single parent and a student (been there done that) to sitting on your butt for three years and neither did the person I was responding to!

 

[GregoryPalamas]

One of the problems with internet discussions is that sometimes we get emotionally attached to an issue and can get distracted over minor comments that are misunderstood. It is at that time that we should take a deep breath and refocus upon the issue.

I believe the issue is the sad state of affairs that has brought about the reality that a very large percentage of children are raised in single parent households. For this discussion it originally focused upon children born out of wedlock. Some comments have been made about broken homes.

The Gospel of God as given us by the Church is really the only answer. I believe if Catholics lived by the standards set forth their the example set by us would have a very positive effect upon many in society. There are always going to be people outside the Church who through ignorance or arrogance do not follow Church teaching. What saddens me is that many within the Church do not follow The Church or our Lord Jesus Christ either.

If men were consistently challenged to be champions for Christ by protecting and defending women and they chose to avoid sexual intercourse until after marriage and spent their time looking for quality Christian women who lived equally disciplined lives much of the problems would be solved.

If women consistently received into their lives only those men who lived the Gospel life and called who called them to a better life and only let into their bodies men who were quality persons and then only after marriage then most of the problems would be solved.

Never ever think you will change someone after marriage. Nevertheless, men and women must be disciplined enough themselves in order to discern the quality spouse ahead of time. It’s not impossible. Instead of being desparate for an earthly spouse be serious about our heavenly spouse. Then things will be in order.

Dan L

 

[Sirach14]

Karin:

How rude …of course these children are their grandchildren you do not have to have married daughter/son for their kids to be your grandkids.

grand·child: **child’s child: **a child of a son or daughter
(www.encarta.com)

I found out that Catholic teaching agrees with you. I was wrong and angry.