Bishop Brown answers my letter and sends one the same day to SJB pastor, 2-10-05

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Lurch104:
I know it seems unlikely, but in charity I have to hope this happens. As long as the school teaches firmly the Church’s position on homosexuality and homosexual relations, I still won’t have a major problem with it. However, my fear is that the teachings will indeed be watered down so as not to offend these children, thus confusing everyone.
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Meanwhile, many more lives and souls are threatened and families disrupted…for what, Satan to have a stronger grip on the Church?
 
Are you still saying that expelling the kids solves the problem better than addressing the pastoral bankruptcy of the principal, pastor and Brown?
 
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demolitionman65:
Are you still saying that expelling the kids solves the problem better than addressing the pastoral bankruptcy of the principal, pastor and Brown?
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It “solves the problem” for the parents and children being conflicted by what the bishop, pastor and principal have created. It also provides the opportunity for the bishop and pastor to “minister” to these two men, something they are not doing now by “showing” them “tolerance.” It also removes the incentive for the two men to continue their charade; as well as test their true interest in giving those children formation in the Catholic Church.

I see those two men being handled just the opposite way than how Jesus handled the “The Rich Man” (Mark 10: 17-31). Substitute “pride” for wealth. They are wealthy in their pride of who they are. Jesus recognized that in the wealthy man, i.e., his pride in who he was came from his money, which gave him his identity. When told he would have to give up his money to have what he was asking for, he could not do it because it would mean giving up his identity. And Jesus let him go on his way disapointed. The two men have approached the Church with their pride in their identity -being homosexual - and have been welcomed in by the bishop and pastor, not having to give up anything.

Jesus recognized that His Church would not benefit by having such a man in it on the conditions the man wanted, and was strong enough to let him go on his way disappointed. He didn’t need that man. For some reason, the bishop and pastor must “feel” they need such men in the Church as the two they brought in. I wonder why?
 
Your peroration does not logically address the issue. You still advocate penalizing the kids to “educate” the parents.

Further, to expel the kids (which is an impossibility with the apparent leadership in the school) does NOTHING to address the real concern (again): morally bankrupt shepherds.
 
Bad example and scandal are sins against the soul included in the Fifth Commandment.
From “My Catholic Faith” by Most Reverend Louis Laravoire Morrow (C) 1963:
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What is BAD EXAMPLE?
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Bad example is doing wrong in the presence of others.
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  1. Bad example is the principal occasion of scandal, which is occasioning the sin of another by any word or deed having at least the appearance of evil. ***If ***any help or encouragement is given in any way to cause another to do wrong, scandal is committed or given.
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Bad example and scandal are sins against the soul included in the Fifth Commandment. They injure our neighbor’s soul, and so are worse evils than injuring his body. They do the devil’s work and draw souls into hell. If by deliberate scandal and bad example we cause another to commit a grave sin, we are worse than murderers. St. Augustine said, If you persuade your neighbor to sin, you are his murderer."
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  1. Our Lord condemned scandal in no uncertain terms, saying: ***“Woe to the man through whom scandal does come! ***And if thy hand or thy foot is an occasion of sin to thee, cut it off and cast it from thee! It is better for thee to enter life maimed or lame, than, having two hands or two feet, ***to be cast into the everlasting fire” ***(Matt. 18:7-8).
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Grievous indeed must scandal be, to make our gentle Lord use such stroung words of condemnation. "The Son of man will send forth*** his angels***, and they will gather out of his kingdom all scandals and those who work iniquity, and cast them into the furnace of fire" (Matt. 13:41-42).
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  1. Some ways*** of giving bad example or scandal are:*** by indecent talk, by selling or circulating bad books or pictures, by singing improper songs, by dressing immodestly, by appearing in public in a state of drunkenness, by profanity and cursing, by doing servile work publicly on Sunday, by behaving indecorously in church, by ridiculing religion and priests, by writing against religion, by publicly violating one of the commandments of God or the Church, etc.
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We should be very careful in our actions, however innocent, so that they may not be the cause of scandal to others. “And if thy eye is an occasion of sin to thee, pluck it out and cast it from thee! It is better for thee to enter into life with one eye, than, having two eyes, to be cast into the hell of fire” (Matt. 18:9).
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  1. By committing scandalous acts a person influences others to do the same. This is specially true of children, who easily imitate their parents and elders. He who gives scandal is like a man who digs a pit into which others fall, break their necks.
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Dear Jim,

Here is an update on the current situation at the school. I posted this on another thread in Moral Theology. [thread=45176] click here [/thread]
**from **Should active homosexuals be permitted to flaunt their lifestyle at a CatholicSchool?

**The Scandal and Bad Example continues at the School. Please read the quotes from the book “My Catholic Faith” on Scandal and Bad Example. **
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**The two men (caregivers) continue to attend the all school morning prayer together (everyday)as a couple so the entire student body can stand witness to their disordered lifestyle. They still are wearing their wedding rings. One of the caregivers (Dad’s) comes and visits his children during the school lunch hour (he may be volunteering for lunch duty, we are not sure), this is the same caregiver that was volunteering unsupervised with the kindergarten children. The kindergarten children already know him and like him as they do the other caregiver (Dad) so he is always welcome. The two men (caregivers) are a common site on the school grounds and at school social functions. As we have stated in the other threads the men have been accepted and welcomed just the way they are, if anyone has tried to correct them in their sin, you know admonish the sinner I am unaware of it. **

**I would estimate that eighty to ninety percent of the adults at the school (teachers and parents) are supporting these men. **I would even go so far as to say the people rally around the men. Most of these people do not have a problem with these two men being so visible and active on the school campus, church and social functions. People who are on different sides of the fence whom were once friends are now enemies, this situation has definitely caused division at the school and parish. Since we have had no support from the bishop on this issue, in fact he seems to support these situations (please read Jim Orr’s thread) I believe more situations like these will be popping up at our diocesan schools. Who knows maybe St. John’s was the designated testing ground to see how easy it would be to infiltrate other diocesan schools. It is very sad to see this happening at the school and church we love so much.

We have not received a response from the Vatican yet, except from one of the congregations saying that this situation did not fall under their jurisdiction. I suspect it will be quite some time before we do hear word now because of the recent loss of our beloved Holy Father.

**Please pray for the Diocese of Orange.:gopray2: **
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GloriaPatri4 said:
**Dear Jim, **Here is an update on the current situation at the school. I posted this on another thread in Moral Theology.
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Thanks for the update. It is necessary to keep in mind that pedophiles are generally not inhospitable people, but rather quiet warm and beguiling. The fact that these two men can act such that children and adults both take to them is not surprising; they are among the sheep; and they have an agenda to play. The unsuspecting sheep will soon become the unsuspecting victims, just as in the story of Little Red Ridinghood. What will they have to say then about the bishop and the Chruch?
 
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katherine2:
I don’t know what church you belong to, but my Church was founded by He who said “Let the little children come unto me”

I’ve checked the Scripture and there is no asterik to indicate that this was only children with heterosexual parents.

The twins are staying. We can only pray for conversion of heart for those hateful people who seek to expell these darling children.
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Childishness or the Spirit of Childhood?

Jesus says: ‘Let the children come to me, and do not hinder them; for to such belongs the kingdom of God.’ [Luke 18:16]

If that is how things are, growing up means loss. Why should I desire to grow up if adulthood deprives me of the right to the kingdom? Can you explain why God should have given us physical development which favours vice, not virtue? And for what reason did the Lord not turn to children but to grown men when he was choosing his Apostles? In brief, why does he say that children are fit to enter the kingdom?

Someone will suggest this reason: because children do not bear malice, they do not know how to swindle their neighbour, they are not vindictive, they do not desire wealth, they do not covet honours.

Maybe: but virtue is not founded on ignorance. Still less is self-control praiseworthy if it is only due to impotence.

Therefore the Lord is not offering us childhood as our example but the goodness that imitates the simplicity of childhood. He does not put before us inability to sin - which would not be virtue - but the will not to sin, a steady will not to sin, for which we ought to take childhood as our model.

For the rest, the Lord himself says: ‘Unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.’ [Matt. 18:3]

Ambrose

*On the Gospel of St Luke, *8
 
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