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mlchance
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Doing just fine = accepting the situation?
Because anyone who disagrees with you must not be thinking for themselves.
It does if what you end up thinking is nonsense.
– Mark L. Chance.
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– Mark L. Chance.
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Lorik
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Before you say this you may want to look into his past a little bit more. Especially while in Poland.
I have had the honor of personally meeting Archbishop Burke. He is exceptionally humble and kind.
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sisterpatril
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I live in the St. Louis area and I thank God for Archbishop Burke every day. He’s just what we needed here. He’s made the right moves in every difficult situation he has faced…and there have been plenty.
The gates of hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church because Jesus promised that…and also because of Archbishops like Burke standing guard!
The gates of hell will not prevail against the Catholic Church because Jesus promised that…and also because of Archbishops like Burke standing guard!
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mangy_dog
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mikew262
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This Church built itself up with its own money and resources and was doing just fine for a hundred years. What’s the problem? Answer: There was no problem until the diocese made one. Sure the diocese has the authority when it comes down to faith and morals and assigning priests, but when all of sudden it demands to absorb the Church’s own finances which it had no part in building up in the first place, I thinks thats wrong. Surely a compromise could’ve been worked out. Now we have lost a fine Church and many formerly loyal Catholics excommunicated, all for control and money. Sad. God has got to be slapping his forehead about now.Doing just fine = accepting the situation?
Because anyone who disagrees with you must not be thinking for themselves.
It does if what you end up thinking is nonsense.
– Mark L. Chance.
There are so many Catholics out there who think the Church and it’s leadership can do no wrong; now there is some real nonsense for you.
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rinnie
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You have to understand that when you say the Church, the Church to a Catholic is not a building it is the BODY OF CHRIST. So for you to say that the Church is wrong could be taken that the word of God is wrong. I dont believe that any Catholic has ever said that its leadership at one time or another has not made a mistake. And when it had it has been corrected. The leaders of the Church are human. But the Church itself is never wrong. The only thing a Catholic has said is that the Church is perfect, and is the true word of God and the true word of God (the CHURCH) will prevail. Its in the bible. Read it. I understand you dont agree with the Catholic Church, that is you choice. But on what authority can you say that Church is wrong. Yes i for one am a Catholic and i believe the Church can never be wrong. Jesus promised us that. He said i will give you the words to stick for my Church.This Church built itself up with its own money and resources and was doing just fine for a hundred years. What’s the problem? Answer: There was no problem until the diocese made one. Sure the diocese has the authority when it comes down to faith and morals and assigning priests, but when all of sudden it demands to absorb the Church’s own finances which it had no part in building up in the first place, I thinks thats wrong. Surely a compromise could’ve been worked out. Now we have lost a fine Church and many formerly loyal Catholics excommunicated, all for control and money. Sad. God has got to be slapping his forehead about now.
There are so many Catholics out there who think the Church and it’s leadership can do no wrong; now there is some real nonsense for you.
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saylo
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mangy_dog
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Mike,This Church built itself up with its own money and resources and was doing just fine for a hundred years. What’s the problem? Answer: There was no problem until the diocese made one. Sure the diocese has the authority when it comes down to faith and morals and assigning priests, but when all of sudden it demands to absorb the Church’s own finances which it had no part in building up in the first place, I thinks thats wrong. Surely a compromise could’ve been worked out. Now we have lost a fine Church and many formerly loyal Catholics excommunicated, all for control and money. Sad. God has got to be slapping his forehead about now.
There are so many Catholics out there who think the Church and it’s leadership can do no wrong; now there is some real nonsense for you.
You’ve answered part of your thread when you admit that, " the diocese has the authority when it comes down to faith and morals and assigning priests."
This and the fact that “certain members” have been excommunicated is the reason why the diocese must - I say again - must assume a tighter control of matters in that church.
I’m sure that it was with a heavy heart that Bishop Burke took those decisions.
And I’m not quite sure why you say that, “now we have lost a fine church and [many formerly loyal catholics] (? $)…”
I think the “money changing tables” have been over-turned and the “our way” is now the correct way.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum
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sisterpatril
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Mike,
Do you know the four marks of the Church? (Of course you do, you say it every Sunday when you go to Church.) Or do YOU say: One (oh and then St. Stanislaus too)…Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
If you want separate denominations, become a protestant…then you could have women ministering to you and you wouldn’t have to worry about Burke. But you wouldn’t have a valid Eucharist.
Do you know the four marks of the Church? (Of course you do, you say it every Sunday when you go to Church.) Or do YOU say: One (oh and then St. Stanislaus too)…Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church.
If you want separate denominations, become a protestant…then you could have women ministering to you and you wouldn’t have to worry about Burke. But you wouldn’t have a valid Eucharist.
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mlchance
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Those “formerly loyal Catholics” violated Church law and doctrine. Doesn’t sound loyal to me.
Go back to the beginning of this thread and read carefully. The only person saying “the Church and it’s [sic] leadership can do no wrong” is you. Can you say, “Strawman”?There are so many Catholics out there who think the Church and it’s leadership can do no wrong; now there is some real nonsense for you.
– Mark L. Chance.
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mikew262
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Just to clarify, when I said Church above (in this case), I meant some of it’s leadership.
I am Catholic and yes there are some things that the Church and I disagree on, but I will always be Catholic. I’m also a Republican, but there are some things I don’t agree with the Republican party on., but I’ll probably always be Republican.
Point is don’t be afraid to voice your disagreement if thats how you feel.
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mikew262
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mikew262
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Money changing tables… Boy, you have hit the nail on the head, but whose sin is it really? Again, at least in the beginning, IMO, this was simply all about control and money. St. Stan’s had it, the Diocese wanted it.
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LRThunder
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Are you accusing the Archdiocese of being greedy? That’s a serious charge requiring proof.
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mikew262
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Wake up! This isn’t about separate denominations or becoming protestant, but control and money. This parish rose under it’s own power and own resources over 100 yrs ago, with virtually no help from the diocese. It was as catholic and loyal as your own church. Now in recent years, the diocese recognized what a nice cash-cow asset it was, and says hey you belong to us, hand everything over. It’s wrong and I’m sorry you can’t see that.
Perhaps churches who fit that definition should be classified as “associate” parishes. Sure, they should give some money to the diocese, but if they are financially viable on their own, they should stay that way.
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mikew262
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So, choosing not have their finances and control of their own church that they’ve worked hard for over 100 yrs essentially stolen from underneath them is violating Church law and doctrine, huh? Interesting take.
Concerning your silly strawman remark, if many of you do believe the Church is potentially capable of doing wrong in some manner, then congrats, maybe you are a little more enlightened that I gave you credit for. However, in this case, IMO, it’s not readily apparent.
Sure Christ said the gates of Hell will never prevail against the Church, and the Holy Spirit will always be there to guide. This is true, the Church will never fall, but thats not to say it may not stumble sometimes. I believe this is one of these times. Keep in mind, the Church is run my man and man is prone to error. The Holy Spirit can provide guidance, but is it always being adhered too.
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mikew262
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If you read the stories with an open mind, I suppose you can draw your own conclusions. However to me, it looks like the basic issue here (at least in the beginning) was money and control. Again, this is my own opinion.
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saylo
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Lorik
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That’s not what happened. The Church left them alone until the board decided to take away all the rights of the pastor and place them in the hands of the board.
This parish didn’t rise up under it’s own power and resources. It rose up under God’s power and resources. Just like every other old parish around here. The people gave their money and land to so they could have a parish. Then they submit to the church that they love. The founders of St. Stan’s would be horrified at this behavior.
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mangy_dog
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I’m glad you agree.
As long as you realize that Bishop Burke is the right man for the job, at the right moment in time.
Divine providence has placed Burke where he is and the Holy Spirit is guiding him in all his decisions.
Power and control is what the “outside” sees. They don’t see God’s hand at work.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.
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