Bishop calls homosexuality ‘gift from God,’ seeks to end ‘prejudices that kill’

[BroIgnatius]

No, it’s technically not, if you are going by Jewish halacha. And since we are talking primarily about Leviticus here, I’m assuming you are basing your statement on an halachic definition.

Abomination is a class by itself and includes some sins and not others.

From that perspective, yes, I know and agree, which was my original point.

 

[BroIgnatius]

“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished."

This was about all the ritual laws, I believe. The sins that are sins unto themselves, and not merely ritual sins, have not been abolished (e.g., adultery, murder, idolatry, homosexual sex and all other forms of fornication, incest, rape, witchcraft, divination, etc.)

 

[pnewton]

Why do you defend homosexual acts when you know God is against it?

That was not a defense of homosexual acts. It was a theological correction.

 

[Catholic13]

That was not a defense of homosexual acts. It was a theological correction.

I wasn’t referring to that response obviously. I was referring to his M.O.

 

[EqualinHim]

This smacks of heresy. Even quite a few protestants agree that homosexuality is outside of God’s design, and therefore not a gift. I’ve always been taught that if a person has a great tendency to homosexual feelings, they should make an effort to live celibate and seek religious counseling to sort out the homosexual feelings. That was the stance of many of the protestant churches I’ve been affiliated with. Do Catholics also believe that people with homosexual feelings should embrace celibacy and seek religious counseling? I know ex-gay therapy isn’t without controversy so I get the feeling that Catholic priests would try to encourage celibacy instead.

 

[pnewton]

If God created people and all that they are…then not only may their characteristics be “a gift from god”…but if they were created “in god’s image” then I imagine that their characteristics are similar to god, too?

Not all we get we have from God. This is the paradox of evil. God did not create evil, nor did he create sin. What he created was Man with a free will that impacts not only on the individual, but on all. We are created, that is born, with original sin, but that original sin is not a gift from God, but a deformation in the nature God created.

I guess you can call it a “happy fault,” but I have never seen the Church call sin a gift. On the other hand, the Church does say homosexuality is intrinsically disordered.

 

[Peter_J]

If God created people and all that they are…then not only may their characteristics be “a gift from god”…but if they were created “in god’s image” then I imagine that their characteristics are similar to god, too?

You quoted a post, IDK if it’s from a Catholic or a non-Catholic but it started with the words “Pure heresy” so I would suggest a grain of salt.

That aside, I think it would have been better if the Bishop had said “a cross” rather than “a gift”, especially considering how much homosexual persons suffer – not only because of the conflict between the moral requirement to be chaste and the nearly universal desire for a spouse, but also because of prejudice from others.

Or do people only ascribe qualities they like–like musical talent–as being gifts from god? And not the ones they don’t like or the ones they think are “sinful”?

Being homosexual isn’t a sin.

 

[Brendan]

If God created people and all that they are…then not only may their characteristics be “a gift from god”…but if they were created “in god’s image” then I imagine that their characteristics are similar to god, too?.

Not all as God created us with certain preturnatual gifts. We inherited a damaged nature from the Sin of Adam, but that was man’s doing, not Gods. It was not how God created us to be.

What God CAN do is to take that damage, our propensity for bad choices, and give us Grace to overcome them, and to use that as an opportunity to look to Him, and not ourselves, for strength.

But the damage itself, the bad choices that are made from that, are not part of our likeness to God.
’

 

[BroIgnatius]

Do Catholics also believe that people with homosexual feelings should embrace celibacy and seek religious counseling?.

Yes, homosexuals are to lead a celibate (which means single life) and chaste (no sex) life.

Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

 

[reggieM]

Some homosexuals are able to correct their mental framework and find appropriate relationships with women - leading to marriage, as a friend of mine has done and has been happily married to a Catholic woman for over 10 years.
But not all do that, or are required to do that.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Yes, homosexuals are to lead a celibate (which means single life) and chaste (no sex) life.

And what then is to be done with all the practicing Catholic men and women who are married or partnered and sometimes raising children and leading very happy lives as gay men and women? They are all around you - in your parishes and in your neighborhoods, in your schools, and in your workplace. Where I live, it is normal. They and their families ARE gifts from God.

 

[Catholic13]

And what then is to be done with all the practicing Catholic men and women who are married or partnered and sometimes raising children and leading very happy lives as gay men and women? They are all around you - in your parishes and in your neighborhoods, in your schools, and in your workplace. Where I live, it is normal. They and their families ARE gifts from God.

They need to turn away from their sins and repent. Jesus says if you love him you will repent of your sins not embrace them.

And they are not practicing Catholics if they are in a gay relationship.

 

[Peter_J]

And what then is to be done with all the practicing Catholic men and women who are married or partnered and sometimes raising children and leading very happy lives as gay men and women? They are all around you - in your parishes and in your neighborhoods, in your schools, and in your workplace. Where I live, it is normal. They and their families ARE gifts from God.

I would start by praying for them.

 

[Brendan]

Where I live, it is normal.

Number of occurrences does not determine the morality of an action. There are some geographies where racism is normal, and might even be found in Catholic parishes, sadly, even supported by clergy. Those people might even live very happy lives. That fact would not make racism a moral act.

So your statement is a non sequitur to the matter under discussion.

They and their families ARE gifts from God.

The persons are, most certainly. Any desires to commit immoral acts, are not gifts from God, nor are the acts themselves.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Number of occurrences does not determine the morality of an action. There are some geographies where racism is normal, and might even be found in Catholic parishes, sadly, even supported by clergy. Those people might even live very happy lives. That fact would not make racism a moral act.

Yes, I have heard Father Coughlin’s broadcasts from his church in Michigan during the 1930’s. It was quite acceptable at the time…

However, the topic at hand is the blessings that gay men and women are within Christ’s Church. They are here and are a part of our lives - and they always have been, especially within the Catholic Church. They have been our musicians, our artists, our liturgists, our clergy, our saints. Be grateful for all the blessings that have come from our gay brothers and sisters.

For those communities that accept LGBTQ men, women, and their families as the new norm, I would suggest let those involved and their pastors deal with it. Perhaps they can be models for how this can be a blessing for us all.

 

[Catholic13]

Yes, I have heard Father Coughlin’s broadcasts from his church in Michigan during the 1930’s. It was quite acceptable at the time…

However, the topic at hand is the blessings that gay men and women are within Christ’s Church. They are here and are a part of our lives - and they always have been, especially within the Catholic Church. They have been our musicians, our artists, our liturgists, our clergy, our saints. Be grateful for all the blessings that have come from our gay brothers and sisters.

For those communities that accept LGBTQ men, women, and their families as the new norm, I would suggest let those involved and their pastors deal with it. Perhaps they can be models for how this can be a blessing for us all.

No, that isn’t the topic. The Bishop said specifically that** homosexuality **is a gift from God. Now why dont you tell us how homosexuality is a gift from God.

 

[James248]

And what then is to be done with all the practicing Catholic men and women who are married or partnered and sometimes raising children and leading very happy lives as gay men and women? They are all around you - in your parishes and in your neighborhoods, in your schools, and in your workplace. Where I live, it is normal. They and their families ARE gifts from God.

The people are: the lifestyle is not.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

The people are: the lifestyle is not.

The lifestyle for most people <>know is getting up in the morning, going to work, making a living, taking care of your children, cooking meals, doing the laundry, cleaning the house, feeding the dog, having dinner together, going to the movies, watching tv, making a home and loving the people who are your family.

 

[James248]

The lifestyle for most people <>know is getting up in the morning, going to work, making a living, taking care of your children, cooking meals, doing the laundry, cleaning the house, feeding the dog, having dinner together, going to the movies, watching tv, making a home and loving the people who are your family.

You know very well that’s not what I meant.

Let me make my statement clearer: being in a marriage or relationship different from the way God intended.

 

[abinjoy]

Being attracted to the same sex is a gift from God at the same time it is a heavy cross to bear. The bishop says his intention was to save people only as he heard about the high suicide rates. I will excuse him