Bishop calls homosexuality ‘gift from God,’ seeks to end ‘prejudices that kill’

[Brendan]

However, the topic at hand is the blessings that gay men and women are within Christ’s Church.

The people are a blessing, any\all immoral acts are not, and are to be rejected. Not just by us, but by everyone.

David Duke is a blessing from God, his actions are not. A homosexual is a blessing from God, homosexuality is not.

Racist people are to be loved, racist actions are to be rejected. Homosexuals are to be loved, homosexual acts are to be rejected.

Neither type of acts should ever be considered to be normative in a truly just society.

 

[Peter_J]

Yes, I have heard Father Coughlin’s broadcasts from his church in Michigan during the 1930’s. It was quite acceptable at the time…

However, the topic at hand is the blessings that gay men and women are within Christ’s Church. They are here and are a part of our lives - and they always have been, especially within the Catholic Church. They have been our musicians, our artists, our liturgists, our clergy, our saints. Be grateful for all the blessings that have come from our gay brothers and sisters.

For those communities that accept LGBTQ men, women, and their families as the new norm, I would suggest let those involved and their pastors deal with it. Perhaps they can be models for how this can be a blessing for us all.

No, that isn’t the topic. The Bishop said specifically that** homosexuality **is a gift from God.

Right. I would never say that gay persons (or homosexual persons for those who prefer to avoid slang) aren’t a gift from God, anymore than I would say that straight (heterosexual) persons aren’t a gift from God because of how many of them contracept. I just question whether their orientation should be described as a gift … although I have to concede that abinjoy has a point: calling it a gift does not necessarily mean one couldn’t also describe it as a cross.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Being attracted to the same sex is a gift from God at the same time it is a heavy cross to bear. The bishop says his intention was to save people only as he heard about the high suicide rates. I will excuse him

If same sex attraction is gift from God, God has a sick sense of humor. Here, I’ll give you this gift, and say that if you act in it, you sin, AND I will make it impossible for you to have children of your own with the one you love. That’s pure divine sadism.

It is much more merciful to imagine that God allows SSA as a consequence of sin – usually someone else’s sin. This still raises theological worries, but it doesn’t make God a sadist.

Of course, it goes without saying that each individual gay person has unique and amazing gifts to offer the body of Christ.

 

[BroIgnatius]

Being attracted to the same sex is a gift from God at the same time it is a heavy cross to bear. The bishop says his intention was to save people only as he heard about the high suicide rates. I will excuse him

Same sex attraction is clearly not a gift from God. God does not create homosexuals. God is not a god of disorder. The Catechism is clear:

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.

 

[Catholic13]

The silence from “ComplineSanFran” says it all. His argument never had a leg to stand on.

 

[eamonnroma]

Pure heresy. Those who engage in homosexual activity make a choice that will ultimately lead their souls to hell upon death should they not repent, as is also the case for adulterers and fornicators. That some would liken one’s sexual preference to being born with a certain color skin is absolute false equivalence and should be about the most offensive thing possible to any group that has had to fight for their inalienable rights.

Thank you for your christian response. Just what Our Lord would have said.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

The silence from “ComplineSanFran” says it all. His argument never had a leg to stand on.

I’m right here, thank you. My last posting was last night and I spend Sunday mornings in Church, attending Mass. Hardly an extended ‘silence.’

I am perfectly aware that the Roman Church teaches that homosexuality is disordered, and I am also quite aware that many scholars, priests, Bishops, sisters, are using different language and theological discourse to challenge that. I am a theologian and am more interested in the spiritual and theological changes that are underway. But I am also a resident of San Francisco, where gay men and women are married or partnered. Families are families. It is the norm. Your church deals with divorce and blended families these days and I see very little questioning how those families were formed. They are your brothers and sisters in Christ, and life - and the Church - is enriched. We see single parents, we see church members who are liberal Democrats, we see supporters of women in the priesthood. We are all beloved of God.

What I don’t understand so much is why homosexuality triggers such a harsh response in people here on CAF. There is more discourse about ‘them’ than there is about Hillary Clinton, for goodness sake. And that is saying a lot! LOL.

Seriously, though, you can honor what the Church’s Catechism teaches in regards to someone else, but until you look around you and see how gay men and women are as loving and beloved by Christ - yes a ‘gift from God’ - then I would recommend we all work on our own spiritual lives rather than everyone else’s.

 

[Catholic13]

I’m right here, thank you. My last posting was last night and I spend Sunday mornings in Church, attending Mass. Hardly an extended ‘silence.’

I am perfectly aware that the Roman Church teaches that homosexuality is disordered, and I am also quite aware that many scholars, priests, Bishops, sisters, are using different language and theological discourse to challenge that. I am a theologian and am more interested in the spiritual and theological changes that are underway. But I am also a resident of San Francisco, where gay men and women are married or partnered. Families are families. It is the norm. Your church deals with divorce and blended families these days and I see very little questioning how those families were formed. They are your brothers and sisters in Christ, and life - and the Church - is enriched. We see single parents, we see church members who are liberal Democrats, we see supporters of women in the priesthood. We are all beloved of God.

What I don’t understand so much is why homosexuality triggers such a harsh response in people here on CAF. There is more discourse about ‘them’ than there is about Hillary Clinton, for goodness sake. And that is saying a lot! LOL.

Seriously, though, you can honor what the Church’s Catechism teaches in regards to someone else, but until you look around you and see how gay men and women are as loving and beloved by Christ - yes a ‘gift from God’ - then I would recommend we all work on our own spiritual lives rather than everyone else’s.

Ok good you;re here. Now tell us how homosexuality is a gift from God **and **explain why you support and cling to your sins when Christ tells us to repent for our sins.

I’m genuinely curious about the latter and make sure to address what I’m actually saying. Thanks.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Ok good you;re here. Now tell us how homosexuality is a gift from God **and **explain why you support and cling to your sins when Christ tells us to repent for our sins.

I’m genuinely curious about the latter and make sure to address what I’m actually saying. Thanks.

The Bishop is one who says that homosexuality is a gift from God. I am only supporting his statement by saying that I see and experience this in my life every day.

Your Catholic Church says many things are sins. I am not a Roman Catholic and don’t feel it is my place to comment on why this is so. I honor what your teachings are and those who live by them.

I also honor my friends and colleagues who are saying there is room for differences. Fr James Martin, for one, is working very hard to bridge the chasm that has been made by teachings on homosexuality. He is all over the media these days, as you well know. People are listening very carefully to his words. I think he will effect change in attitudes and practice.

Personally, I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe it is an integral part of being human for millions of people. Obviously, my branch of the Church has come to teach this, and many of our members as well as our clergy are openly gay men and women. (And in all honesty, we have many of YOUR members now too.)

You and I see the teachings of Christ in different ways, and that is what it is. I disagree with my Baptist friends who say dancing is a sin. I disagree with my LDS friends who cannot share a cup of tea with me because they believe it is against God’s wishes. I sometimes wonder at it all, but as I said, it is what it is.

So there is only one way to respond to your question of why I don’t repent of sins as Jesus instructed us to, and that is to say I DO. I am Christian! However, my personal sins are mine and mine alone, and I would not ask you to concern yourself with them. And I would say if you yourself are Catholic and gay, it is up to you and your spiritual advisor to work that one out.

I’m sure I left you unsatisfied, but there isn’t much else to say other than we disagree.

 

[Prodigal_Son]

The Bishop is one who says that homosexuality is a gift from God. I am only supporting his statement by saying that I see and experience this in my life every day.

Your Catholic Church says many things are sins. I am not a Roman Catholic and don’t feel it is my place to comment on why this is so. I honor what your teachings are and those who live by them.

I also honor my friends and colleagues who are saying there is room for differences. Fr James Martin, for one, is working very hard to bridge the chasm that has been made by teachings on homosexuality. He is all over the media these days, as you well know. People are listening very carefully to his words. I think he will effect change in attitudes and practice.

Personally, I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe it is an integral part of being human for millions of people. Obviously, my branch of the Church has come to teach this, and many of our members as well as our clergy are openly gay men and women. (And in all honesty, we have many of YOUR members now too.)

You and I see the teachings of Christ in different ways, and that is what it is. I disagree with my Baptist friends who say dancing is a sin. I disagree with my LDS friends who cannot share a cup of tea with me because they believe it is against God’s wishes. I sometimes wonder at it all, but as I said, it is what it is.

So there is only one way to respond to your question of why I don’t repent of sins as Jesus instructed us to, and that is to say I DO. I am Christian! However, my personal sins are mine and mine alone, and I would not ask you to concern yourself with them. And I would say if you yourself are Catholic and gay, it is up to you and your spiritual advisor to work that one out.

I’m sure I left you unsatisfied, but there isn’t much else to say other than we disagree.

As an outsider to this conversation, let me just say that this strikes me as a respectful response. I hope it isn’t met with mockery.

I hope you will join me, Compline, in praying that God might reveal to me the truth if homosexual activity is moral, and that God might reveal to you the truth if it is immoral. None of us wants to be in error.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

As an outsider to this conversation, let me just say that this strikes me as a respectful response. I hope it isn’t met with mockery.

I hope you will join me, Compline, in praying that God might reveal to me the truth if homosexual activity is moral, and that God might reveal to you the truth if it is immoral. None of us wants to be in error.

Thank you, Prodigal Son. Prayers always.

 

[Sy_Noe]

I’m right here, thank you. My last posting was last night and I spend Sunday mornings in Church, attending Mass. Hardly an extended ‘silence.’

I am perfectly aware that the Roman Church teaches that homosexuality is disordered, and I am also quite aware that many scholars, priests, Bishops, sisters, are using different language and theological discourse to challenge that. I am a theologian and am more interested in the spiritual and theological changes that are underway. But I am also a resident of San Francisco, where gay men and women are married or partnered. Families are families. It is the norm. Your church deals with divorce and blended families these days and I see very little questioning how those families were formed. They are your brothers and sisters in Christ, and life - and the Church - is enriched. We see single parents, we see church members who are liberal Democrats, we see supporters of women in the priesthood. We are all beloved of God.

What I don’t understand so much is why homosexuality triggers such a harsh response in people here on CAF. There is more discourse about ‘them’ than there is about Hillary Clinton, for goodness sake. And that is saying a lot! LOL.

Seriously, though, you can honor what the Church’s Catechism teaches in regards to someone else, but until you look around you and see how gay men and women are as loving and beloved by Christ - yes a ‘gift from God’ - then I would recommend we all work on our own spiritual lives rather than everyone else’s.

To top Hillary Clinton as a topic on CAF is indeed quite a milestone.

 

[Sy_Noe]

The Bishop is one who says that homosexuality is a gift from God. I am only supporting his statement by saying that I see and experience this in my life every day.

Your Catholic Church says many things are sins. I am not a Roman Catholic and don’t feel it is my place to comment on why this is so. I honor what your teachings are and those who live by them.

I also honor my friends and colleagues who are saying there is room for differences. Fr James Martin, for one, is working very hard to bridge the chasm that has been made by teachings on homosexuality. He is all over the media these days, as you well know. People are listening very carefully to his words. I think he will effect change in attitudes and practice.

Personally, I don’t believe homosexuality is a sin. I believe it is an integral part of being human for millions of people. Obviously, my branch of the Church has come to teach this, and many of our members as well as our clergy are openly gay men and women. (And in all honesty, we have many of YOUR members now too.)

You and I see the teachings of Christ in different ways, and that is what it is. I disagree with my Baptist friends who say dancing is a sin. I disagree with my LDS friends who cannot share a cup of tea with me because they believe it is against God’s wishes. I sometimes wonder at it all, but as I said, it is what it is.

So there is only one way to respond to your question of why I don’t repent of sins as Jesus instructed us to, and that is to say I DO. I am Christian! However, my personal sins are mine and mine alone, and I would not ask you to concern yourself with them. And I would say if you yourself are Catholic and gay, it is up to you and your spiritual advisor to work that one out.

I’m sure I left you unsatisfied, but there isn’t much else to say other than we disagree.

Well said.

 

[pnewton]

Yes, I have heard Father Coughlin’s broadcasts from his church in Michigan during the 1930’s. It was quite acceptable at the time…

However, the topic at hand is the blessings that gay men and women are within Christ’s Church. They are here and are a part of our lives - and they always have been, especially within the Catholic Church… Perhaps they can be models for how this can be a blessing for us all.

Looking at similar circumstances, analogies, is a way to determine how we should respond, and how we should not. Some parishes were blessed with the Eucharist, the most important liturgical function, where the priest was later found to be engaging in sex with under-aged children. So except for their sinful sexual proclivities, these priests could equally be said to be models for how they can be a blessing for all, at least in the same manner and the same extent as you used the phrase.

If this situation does not shed light, the simply saying the subject here is homosexuality is a non-answer. That is how analogies work.

If the difference is the law being broken, then substitute an eighteen year old girl living with the priest as his sexual partner. Still a good role model?

 

[Peter_J]

God does not create homosexuals.

Hi BroIgnatius. Admittedly I don’t usually read your posts, but I don’t think I need to in order to respond to the above post which I did happen to read. You’re wrong: God made heterosexual persons, homosexual persons (or homosexuals as you put it), bisexual persons …

 

[Prodigal_Son]

Hi BroIgnatius. Admittedly I don’t usually read your posts, but I don’t think I need to in order to respond to the above post which I did happen to read. You’re wrong: God made heterosexual persons, homosexual persons (or homosexuals as you put it), bisexual persons …

I’m sure he meant, “God doesn’t make persons homosexual”.

At the same time, I agree that the phrase “God doesn’t make homosexual persons” is a really annoying and ambiguous phrase.

 

[pnewton]

And in all honesty, we have many of YOUR members now too.

And visa versa, over this same topic. An error in the beginning is an error indeed, and the reversal of the Anglican Church on this very issue has raised the question of who should have the authority to define doctrine. The question is, how many switch to find God’s eternal truth and how many switch to find the answer that best suits them?

I was raised in another denomination so I know people go from church to church trying to find one that best suits them. I also know that this practically means finding a church that conforms mostly to their standard of what is right and wrong. The error in this is an apologetic issue.

The practical issue of ministering to people with homosexual desires remain in the Catholic Church. That much is true. I have always found it objectionable to single out people with this particular sin as somehow in a difference situation than the rest of sinful humanity. However, I find it far more serious an objection to teach that something that God has clearly said is sinful is not sinful. Ezekiel warns that such teaching will impute sin to the teacher.

 

[Peter_J]

I’m sure he meant, “God doesn’t make persons homosexual”.

Yeah, I don’t think there are a lot of straight men and women out there praying “Dear God, I can’t take this much longer, when will you make me gay?”

But seriously, I completely agree with you that God does make homosexual persons. The real question is, What do we do? The Bishops offered some suggestions in Always Our Children.

 

[James248]

It is written: “God made them male and female. For this reason a man leaves his father and mother and is married to his wife, and the two become one flesh.”

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Think about that.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

It is written: “God made them male and female. For this reason a man leaves his father and mother and is married to his wife, and the two become one flesh.”

God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. Think about that.

That’s a pretty old one. Yawn.