Bishop Denies Communion While Kneeling

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Thanks! I didn’t clink the link in the article to further clarify. Guess we are back to who knows
 
I don’t think so. I think it means that each national Bishops’ Conference is empowered to make those decisions, but not every individual bishop. I had a quick look at the Chilean Bishops’ Conference website but there doesn’t seem to be anything there that would clear up our doubt.

http://www.iglesia.cl
 
Some people here would attempt to justify a bishop punching a parishioner in the face during communion. I’m being hyperbolic of course but I have seen people on this forum tie themselves into a pretzel while defending something Pope Francis has done or said.
 
“The Christian faithful have the right to receive assistance from the sacred pastors out of the spiritual goods of the Church, especially the Word of God and the sacraments.” (Canon 213, 1983 Code of Canon Law)

“Any baptized person who is not forbidden by law may and must be admitted to Holy Communion.” (Canon 912, 1983 Code of Canon Law)

Any Catholic who may receive Holy Communion has the right to receive. It seems to me that publicly denying Holy Communion to a Catholic who presents himself for the sacrament is a very, very serious action. It creates a situation in which it is easy to infer that the minister judges the person to be unworthy to receive the sacrament. (I am not speaking here of individuals living manifestly in gravely sinful situations, which does not appear to be the case here.)
 
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po18guy said:
If he is not your Bishop, so what? Should 12 Swiss Guards go arrest him?

I know that we are a consumer-oriented, ssocial media driven culture, but honestly, if we prayed as much as we moan and groan, carp and gossip, the Church and the world would be a far better place.
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This is a discussion forum. Why the antipathy towards discussion?
 
You are right. I never should have replied. I’ll go edit/delete. But my questions remain.
 
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It’s been two days now and no corroboration whatsoever that this actually happened the way the narrative says so. Is nobody skeptical of this?

I’m a Latin Mass attending, kneeling for communion receiving, tongue-sticking-out-all-the-way-not-even-saying-amen Catholic, but come on! As far as my Google Fu can tell this entire story started with Crux and/or Church Militant from their editorial of a video sent to them that appears to show the Archbishop pro tempore refusing communion to two individuals who just so happen to be presenting themselves kneeling. There’s no speech to be discerened from the video itself, and the editorial cited in the OP spends over half of its editorializing speaking of the scandal that preceded the Mass in question.

I watched the video. 5 times. I saw a woman kneel down, be refused communion (without any noticeable speech from her or the priest [the priest’s back is facing the camera]) and then I saw a man refused communion also (again without any noticeable speech from either participant). After a handful of other communicants receiving (both in the hand and on the tongue) the gentleman earlier refused appears to stand up, the bishop turns to him, and then proceeds to distribute communion to the rest of the faithful. It isn’t clear whether the man who initially knelt actually received communion after finally standing, as reported by ChurchMilitant.

What I can glean is that this was a contentious Mass due to having the scandal ridden bishop process into the Mass. As has been reported by other media a number of priests and faithful present actually stormed out of the Mass in protest of this procession. Did this have something to do with the refusal of communion to these two individuals? There’s really no way to know until one of these Catholic bastions of “journalism” reach out and interview those affected instead of creating a story out of whole cloth from nothing more than a video.

Honestly, have we learned nothing at all from Covington?
 
Salibi said:
I’m afraid I disagree😅. In the East we mostly recieve standing. Both forms of reception are acceptable, the Bishop’s behavior is indeed puzzling.
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Yes, but let’s also be aware of fact that kneeling in East and West are taken with different meanings. Both forms of reception are acceptable though. Because I had troubles receiving Byzantine Eucharist (I just… don’t know how far to lean back and once I nearly fell down), I occasionally received kneeling (one other, older man received same way) to easily solve my problems. Priest did not mind, laity did not seem to mind, but when I found out it’s not Eastern way of receiving Eucharist and might send bad signals, I started trying to prevent that.
 
Salibi said:
I was under the impression that laity in a state of grace cannot be denied Communion whether they opt to receive standing or kneeling. Is the Bishop unaware of this?
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Institutio Generalis Missalis Romani (2002) No. 160 leaves it to the Conference of Bishops.
“The faithful may communicate either standing or kneeling, as established by the Conference of Bishops.” (Fideles communicant genuflexi vel stantes, prout Conferentia Episcoporum statuerit.)
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In the US adaptation of the GIRM, (2010 version) approved by the Holy See:
The norm established for the Dioceses of the United States of America is that Holy Communion is to be received standing, unless an individual member of the faithful wishes to receive Communion while kneeling (Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments, Instruction, Redemptionis Sacramentum, March 25, 2004, no. 91).
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OK, so what I’m now getting from this thread is:
  • The Chilean Bishops’ Conference could mandate that everybody stand, however, as of now there hasn’t been a Chilean Bishops’ Conference addressing this issue at all, and it’s not a decision for the individual Bishop
  • The Bishop who did this is a temporary replacement who was just appointed to replace a Cardinal who was credibly accused of covering up a priest’s rape of an impoverished adult man in the Santiago cathedral
  • The removed Cardinal was invited to this Mass and allowed to be in the entrance procession, which made a bunch of clergy in attendance upset; several of them stormed out and another one sent the media this video of the temporary bishop allegedly refusing communion to kneeling people.
What a mess…
 
Tis_Bearself said:
The removed Cardinal was invited to this Mass and allowed to be in the entrance procession, which made a bunch of clergy in attendance upset; several of them stormed out and another one sent the media this video of the temporary bishop allegedly refusing communion to kneeling people.
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There is something odd about the video itself - the footage was shot from behind Bishop Aos. Who made the video? It seems unlikely that one of the ministers was standing behind the bishop with his iPhone.

Was the videographer anticipating some controversy? Trying to catch the bishop doing this? Was this a gotcha setup?

Let us pray for our brothers and sisters in Chile, the Church there has been rocked with turmoil for quite some time.

Deacon Christopher
 
Indeed. I thought so too. Looks like maybe the Bishop has done something like before and someone wants to “expose” him.
 
Actually I think both of you are spot-on:
  • There is value is discussing these sorts of things. That’s what the forums are for; but, too often threads devolve quickly into dead horse beating exercises.
  • Soooooo many people (neither of you) do moan and catastrophize when a better response is prayer, benefit of the doubt, and reasonable critical thinking.
For me, personally, I give bishops a very wide berth. They are, in fact, successors to the Apostles and are charged with governance over their flock, which is an often thankless job. Probably moreso to a [temporary] bishop sent to clean up a clergy abuse scandal (see O’Malley, Sean Cardinal, who has had to do this in three different dioceses).

It appears he told the woman to stand up to receive, as the man did later on. So she could have obeyed and received our Lord, which is what is actually important. I know I would have.

Last week a little girl was in line in Sri Lanka to make her First Communion and was murdered by Muslim terrorists. That, for sure, is an actual catastrophe.

Let us pray that the Divine Mercy of Jesus would flood all corners of the earth today, and that murderers would have a change of heart and repent.

Deacon Christopher
 
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Diaconia said:
Last week a little girl was in line in Sri Lanka to make her First Communion and was murdered by Muslim terrorists. That, for sure, is an actual catastrophe .
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How sad, I’m not sure how I missed that in any news I’ve read. Hopefully and probably, she prays for us now with Our Father.
Diaconia said:
Let us pray that the Divine Mercy of Jesus would flood all corners of the earth today, and that murderers would have a change of heart and repent.
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This is undervalued. Whenever someone comes to me and starts speaking about how Pope Francis mistreats Church, how Bishops are doing bad job, how Church is being mistreated by media and/or persecutors or how they are arguing with their friend, I’ve learned to always include this in my answer. “Pray for you both, so you both see the ultimate truth. Don’t be entitled to your vision and be obedient to authority God has established- if need be He will fix it, but don’t fall away because of probable private misinterpretation. Love everyone and pray for everyone involved to just see God’s will.”.

Many people would rather see murderers burn in Hell, but we are forgetting they are God’s children and God loves them infinitely, and many Saints we love and venerate were also sinners before they repented. Same case is with this Bishop- pray that everyone involved sees God’s will, don’t bash him- it might be unnecessary. While I agree discussion itself is a good thing, let’s not throw stones.

Happy birthday Deacon Christopher, may Lord reward you for your service to His Bride and give you strength to continue with it at least as faithfully as you have until now! 🙂
 
To think. No more than 60 years ago, kneeling was the norm.
 
Diaconia said:
In fact, some of the most important saints - the Apostle Paul, and St. Augustine, for example.
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And in case of St. Augustine, St. Monica’s prayers played huge part in his conversion. How beautiful example, we should all St. Monica and pray for people to repent, so they can partake in God’s eternal glory. Throwing stones may have been situations Saints were often in, but they were not ones who were throwing them. We should not become ignorant and believe our point of view is superior, because that’s what happened to Jews when they were persecuting Apostles and we do not want to take that side either.
 
In general I agree, Deacon. But with all the talk about being more pastoral, more merciful, meeting people where they’re at, rejecting rigidity, condemning clericalism etc etc… why would any bishop choose to be super rigid on this one relatively minor issue? As I said in my earlier post, I greatly appreciate that our Archbishop promotes both postures equally at our cathedral.
 
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