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1Lord1Faith
Guest
The letter states “we were being pressured from all sides”. Try to figure out what “all sides” means. Bishops chose their words carefully. I am betting that Bishop Foys was not speaking colloquially there.
Bishop: Diocese of Covington felt 'bullied and pressured' into condemning students too quickly
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c1949
Guest
We will have to agree to disagree. How can a bishop apologize for all the damage he’s done to the Church by his rashness? for using his office for grandstanding? for his doublespeak about respect for other while showing so little for his own flock of believers? for not trusting the adult chaperones on the trip?
BTW, I didn’t ask for his resignation, I urged him to man up and resign, to swallow the poison pill he was handing to the students.
BTW, I didn’t ask for his resignation, I urged him to man up and resign, to swallow the poison pill he was handing to the students.
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pnewton
Guest
That has an easy answer, at least for a Catholic. We believe in mercy and forgiveness. We see humility as a virtue and pride as a sin.
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c1949
Guest
yes, but a person has to take responsibility for what they say and do, especially a person in a leadership role. What happened with Bishop Foys is that he forgave himself for what he did, just like that. I can forgive him while urging him to resign his position of responsibility which he violated.
Why haven’t the US bishops been so trigger happy for the ouster of Fr James Martin, SJ, for his unorthodox beliefs and actions. See Rev 2:1-2 regarding false apostles.
Why haven’t the US bishops been so trigger happy for the ouster of Fr James Martin, SJ, for his unorthodox beliefs and actions. See Rev 2:1-2 regarding false apostles.
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pnewton
Guest
Boy, that was a jump! Agenda much?
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tafan2
Guest
What do you mean by “he forgave himself”?
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ZMystiCat
Guest
I’m not sure it’s hard to imagine. Liberals obviously took issue because it looked like MAGA-hat-wearing kids did what they assume MAGA-hat-wearing kids do. Catholics may have wanted a condemnation so as to avoid making Catholics as a whole look like they approved. Some conservatives may have wanted it for the same reason - don’t think we’re all MAGA-hat-wearers or that all MAGA-hat-wearers act like this. And of course, some may have been calling for a statement, even if they didn’t want that statement to be one condemning what appeared to be un-Catholic-like behavior.
What damage did he do?
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JohnR77
Guest
There are always at least two sides to every disagreement.
This is very obvious to anyone who knows a divorced couple, which means everyone in today’s culture.
That is why honest people wanted to hear both sides before judging.
Look at this from the perspective of those who were inclined to falsely accuse Covington Catholic students. It would not be unusual to expect each side to be a little prejudice to their own people, their own side.
However, when the student’s own people -
that is, their Bishops who were expected to love those students with the fatherly love of a successor to the Apostles -
made strong statements that they students were guilty,
Then Who needs to wait for anymore investigation
( that most people do not want to do anyhow) ?
The bishop’s statements gave free rein to those who were already inclined to make those grossly untrue accusations against them.
This group includes those who oppose Catholics, those who oppose Pro-Life, and those who oppose others who love our country and dream of making it better again, as opposed to those who say and wish
" G** Da** America."
“ (sic) If your own people say you are guilty as sin, then you must be guilty.”
These unrestrained false accusations led to death threats.
I do not expect my enemies to come to my defense, but when my “best friends” say I am wrong, there is little I can do to defend myself.
Thank God for the videos.
I will post more on them later, proving the innocence of the students.
John
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c1949
Guest
What damage has the bishop done to the Church?
He has insulted a lot of people in his diocese, he has humiliated the chaperones who went with the boys to WASH DC, he has rashly judged the students publicly suggesting that the school did not educate the students about the issues he criticized them for, as some have pointed out, the one young man’s name will always be there on the internet, so his reputation has been damaged, the bishop’s public conduct is an embarrassment to the church. He jumped the gun, threatening to expel some students pending an investigation. Just a lot of bad publicity for the Catholic Church, not praising the students for their participation in the March for Life.
His conduct is another black mark against the evangelical efforts of lay Catholics.
He has insulted a lot of people in his diocese, he has humiliated the chaperones who went with the boys to WASH DC, he has rashly judged the students publicly suggesting that the school did not educate the students about the issues he criticized them for, as some have pointed out, the one young man’s name will always be there on the internet, so his reputation has been damaged, the bishop’s public conduct is an embarrassment to the church. He jumped the gun, threatening to expel some students pending an investigation. Just a lot of bad publicity for the Catholic Church, not praising the students for their participation in the March for Life.
His conduct is another black mark against the evangelical efforts of lay Catholics.
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blackforest
Well-known member
I’ve come around a lot on this. We owe it to others to be charitable. His statement admits responsibility for the gaffe of a prematurely released judgment. Let’s leave it that and forgive as Christ forgives us.
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Ender
Guest
It is truly depressing when more bishops jumped the gun and condemned the students than thought it appropriate to condemn the actions of the Catholic governor of New York (and the other Catholic legislators) for his role in passing their barbaric abortion law.
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ZMystiCat
Guest
I still fail to see how his remarks did any damage to the Church. The boys, their school, and anyone overseeing them was already being dragged through the mud by the media. At most, he lent his voice to the criticism as an authority over them. In light of later-released videos and his apology, though, the only “damage” that really did was indicate that he could be pressured into acting prematurely, but that’s hard to definitively say at this moment either because he hasn’t been given a chance to show he learned.
Ultimately, it just seems like people want his head for one wrong thing he did - something he has apologized for and, as of now, has not done again.
blackforest
Well-known member
Showing religious hypocrisy like Cuomo’s - i.e. belonging to an outspokenly pro-life Church while legalizing abortion to be as on-demand as a Big Mac and fries - sadly doesn’t compromise the Church’s image as much as a bunch of bigots from a parochial school shouting racist epithets in the town square, (as everybody was misled to believe happened).
The painful truth is that the Church is an institution and sometimes puts the Institution ahead of the faith.
I’m pleased to see the Bishop apologize, though.
The painful truth is that the Church is an institution and sometimes puts the Institution ahead of the faith.
I’m pleased to see the Bishop apologize, though.
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JimG
Guest
Over the course of the March for Life, the three major networks barely covered the event, giving it a total of 58 seconds of news coverage. But they were happy to pounce on a false story of alleged wrongdoing by Catholic high school boys.
National Catholic Register comments on the matter here:
National Catholic Register comments on the matter here:
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www.ncregister.com
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
^ ^ ^
This exactly.
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Now Moses in the law commanded us to stone such a one. But what sayest thou?
And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground.
When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.
But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst.
Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?
Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.
And this they said tempting him, that they might accuse him. But Jesus bowing himself down, wrote with his finger on the ground.
When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.
And again stooping down, he wrote on the ground.
But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the woman standing in the midst.
Then Jesus lifting up himself, said to her: Woman, where are they that accused thee? Hath no man condemned thee?
Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.
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mrdrifter
Guest
We condemn the actions of the Covington Catholic High School students towards Nathan Phillips specifically, and Native Americans in general, Jan. 18, after the March for Life, in Washington, D.C.
Diocese of Covington and Covington Catholic High School
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pnewton
Guest
No it did not. Those that wanted to judge already had, and exercised free rein.
That is a good argument for avoiding creating side controversies. The boys may have been innocently wearing their souvenir hats, but the result was they chose an appearance of representing Trump, not their school, church or the pro-life movement.
Not all topics are reduced to abortion, any more than they are Nazis. So for the obsessed with talking about the Cuomo incident, here is the correct thread.
Furthermore, it is a lie to say the bishops aren’t condemning Cuomo and the NY law.
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www.foxnews.com
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MagdalenaRita
Guest
Pray for our priests and bishops that they have the courage stand up to the face of evil.Furthermore, it is a lie to say the bishops aren’t condemning Cuomo and the NY law.
Fox News
Catholic leaders call for Gov. Cuomo to be excommunicated for ‘flagrant…
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Ender
Guest
Apparently you missed the point of my remark, which went to the overall behavior of bishops and with which issues they choose to involve themselves.
Aside from being false, that’s a bit intemperate don’t you think? What I said was that there were more bishops who rushed to judgment and publicly condemned the boys than there were those who publicly condemned Cuomo. The article you referenced mentioned two bishops who spoke out against Cuomo. There were at least five who dissed the boys. I was also careful to distinguish condemnation of Cuomo personally from condemnation of the law. It is not the law that deserves the greater censure.
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