S
Sir_Catholic
Guest
Catholic schismatics see return to Roman fold soon
Reuters
news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1531512006
Reuters
news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=1531512006
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U
UKcatholicGuy
Guest
This is the best news I’ve heard in a while. I would absolutely love to see the situation between Rome and the Society “regularized.” I think the SSPX would bring a lot of good to the Church if it were officially in communion.
S
Sir_Catholic
Guest
Amen to that.
I thought this new development was an interesting contrast to what Bishop Fellay said last August, which was that there had been no progress towards reconciliation.
Let’s all pray that the SSPX will reconcile soon.
M
MyPhilomena
Guest
As he ( Bishop Fellay ) stated before, it will be a slow process. It wont happen overnight.but anything even small is an improvement. I know that alot of people are truly praying for progress in this matter and hopefully it will be resolved soon.
i found the following articles when i clicked on sspx.org under the topic “what’s new”
here is what i found:
The stages of the dialogue between Rome and the SSPX
dici.org/actualite_read.php?id=795&loc=US
France: Press conference of Bishop Fellay to the journalists for religious information
dici.org/actualite_read.php?id=747&loc=US
i found the following articles when i clicked on sspx.org under the topic “what’s new”
here is what i found:
The stages of the dialogue between Rome and the SSPX
dici.org/actualite_read.php?id=795&loc=US
France: Press conference of Bishop Fellay to the journalists for religious information
dici.org/actualite_read.php?id=747&loc=US
U
Unfinished
Guest
Amen!
It probably has something to do with the rumors flying around about a universal indult. I know they happen every year, but this year the talk is louder than normal.
The SSPX would do so much good in the Church if they would change their attitude and start working FOR the Church.
If they became reconciled, their seminary would start bending at the walls so many men would be trying to get inside. The FSSP already can’t handle all the men wanting to get in.
M
MyPhilomena
Guest
i’ll believe the change will happen when the pope announces the reconciliation and it is posted on the Vatican website. Until the pope makes the announcement i will only believe its all rumours and speculation. when we have it officially from the pope, there will be no more speculation, then it is real.
S
Sir_Catholic
Guest
I am not sure why those articles are posted in the “what’s new” section. The first article is dated 1/4/2006, and the second article is dated 4/2/2006. They may not reflect the current relationship between the SSPX and Rome.
M
MyPhilomena
Guest
i checked the sspx site here in canada, and did not see any updates so, one has to assume that for now, there is nothing to report on, if there had been, they likely would have posted it.
A
Adonis33
Guest
I hope this is true. But - as I have said in a similar thread - we have seen reports before concerning a univeral indult being approved. I think we should take a wait and see approach.
C
Catholic_Dude
Guest
M
MyPhilomena
Guest
exactly, that is why people should pay no heed to rumours.when the pope announces the reconciliation, there will be no rumour at all,and it will be in fact, fact.
S
Struggling
Guest
The demand that the excommunication of Lefebvre be lifted postumously is the thing that has always driven me away from the SSPX, because it shows their pride: they are obviously not merely committed to the traditional liturgy, but are stubborn and prideful politically.
It would be great if they agreed to reconcile with Rome, and came back into the fold and got to use the traditional liturgy and all that.
And obviously, for that to happen, the 4 bishops would have to have their excommunications lifted.
But they should at least have to say something like, “Yeah…I guess we were a little out of line ordaining bishops without Vatican approval…it wasn’t really that big of an emergency…sorry…”
Because if they admit that the new mass and ordination ritual are valid (and that is obviously a must) then that is essentially admitting there was no danger about the loss of holy orders or valid sacraments…and if they admit that…then Lefebvre was clearly wrong and SHOULD be excommunicated.
I am a traditionalist, but that’s what I hate about radical traditionalists: they are rebels too. Being able to admit you were wrong is the sign of a good person. But they will not accept that they were even partially in the wrong…
To have the audacity to “negotiate” with Rome as if they were equals! They should simply submit to the Pope, not talk and bargain with him as if an equal!
And do we really want people to “come back” who only came back through having the audacity to negotiate with the Pope? You do not negotiate with the Pope…you obey him!
It would be great if they agreed to reconcile with Rome, and came back into the fold and got to use the traditional liturgy and all that.
And obviously, for that to happen, the 4 bishops would have to have their excommunications lifted.
But they should at least have to say something like, “Yeah…I guess we were a little out of line ordaining bishops without Vatican approval…it wasn’t really that big of an emergency…sorry…”
Because if they admit that the new mass and ordination ritual are valid (and that is obviously a must) then that is essentially admitting there was no danger about the loss of holy orders or valid sacraments…and if they admit that…then Lefebvre was clearly wrong and SHOULD be excommunicated.
I am a traditionalist, but that’s what I hate about radical traditionalists: they are rebels too. Being able to admit you were wrong is the sign of a good person. But they will not accept that they were even partially in the wrong…
To have the audacity to “negotiate” with Rome as if they were equals! They should simply submit to the Pope, not talk and bargain with him as if an equal!
And do we really want people to “come back” who only came back through having the audacity to negotiate with the Pope? You do not negotiate with the Pope…you obey him!
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
Eventually, Rome will cave and this whole issue will be resolved. It won’t be too much longer before the SSPX will need to look at ordaining even more bishops to continue the work of the Society. Either Rome will come to some sort of accommodation or…the phony “schism” will be perpetuated for another generation.
We know who has the stick here. And it ain’t Rome.
We know who has the stick here. And it ain’t Rome.
K
KathleenElsie
Guest
I don’t think this will happen until the TLM is allowed in all parishes. I said allowed not practiced.
I pray the TLM is allowed and that the SSPX is officially in communion with Rome.
I pray the TLM is allowed and that the SSPX is officially in communion with Rome.
B
Brenda4God
Guest
I’ve been praying for this reconciliation. I think the Church needs these people and these people obviously need to be back in the Church.
I’m just worried about the hard-cases on both sides. I hope they don’t manage to mess everything up!
I’m just worried about the hard-cases on both sides. I hope they don’t manage to mess everything up!
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
The Church doesn’t need this people, they need to return to the obedience of the Church. The Church doesn’t lack unity, those who are outside of it do. Let’s pray that they see the error of their ways and come home.I’ve been praying for this reconciliation. I think the Church needs these people and these people obviously need to be back in the Church.
I’m just worried about the hard-cases on both sides. I hope they don’t manage to mess everything up!
And the excommunications were confirmed by Rome. That’s the big stick that matters. That’s the only “stick,” in fact. Their relatively small numbers are not threat to anything.
B
Brenda4God
Guest
I didn’t mean to offend anyone. But I think they were right about somethings even if they were wrongs about others. And they might be nice to have in the Church. That’s all.
I don’t think we have to humiliate them, do we?
I don’t think we have to humiliate them, do we?
D
Dr.Bombay
Guest
Oh, I’d say perpetuating this manufactured “schism” by consecrating four more bishops without Rome’s approval is a pretty big stick, Kirk.
They are valid bishops, after all and, guess what? They can make more valid bishops.
The SSPX would be fools to accomodate the current zeitgeist prevalent in the Church. They should come back in on their terms and no one else’s.
M
MyPhilomena
Guest
As i posted on another SSPx thread, here is an article I found that
sure makes those rumours seem to be untrue, it seems that the
SSPX is not coming any closer to reconciliation with Rome right?
LilyM was gracious enough to translate it for me as it was in French. Here is the article and please tell me if you all think the language in it seems to say that the reconcialition is no closer than it was before:
“Response to a Le Figaro article of Monday 16 October 2006.”
“Le Figaro, on Monday 16 October 2006, published an article by Sophie de Ravinel entitled “Lefebvrists: Rome about to lift sanctions”. This article, which supposedly announces the sending of a message to the Pope by Mgr Fellay demanding the withdrawal of the excommunication, contains two mistakes which lead to an untruth.”
“Sophie de Ravinel confuses the two prerequisites stated by Mgr Fellay at the beginning of 2001 (liberalisation of the traditional Mass and retraction of the decree of excommunication) with the “spiritual bouquet” of a million chaplets (rosaries) which he offered to the Pope at the end of October to demand the freedom of the Tridentine Mass.”
"And she confuses this spiritual bouquet addressed to the Pope with the response made by Mgr Fellay to a letter of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos. In this letter of last June – which was published (at the time?) – there was neither any mention of an “immediate return to the mass in Latin” nor any call in the letter for the “reestablishment of full communion with the See of Peter” "
"These distinctions made, it is false to assert, as Sophie de Ravinel has done, that “the superior of this Fraternity founded by Mgr Lefebvre in 1970 has in effect announced in the Figaro his intention of sending a message to Benedict XVI containing this request (for the lifting of the sanctions) along with a demand for the liberalisation of the mass of the Tridentine rite … and that this is “in response to a message sent roughly four months ago by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos”. "
“The Figaro article uses lots of conditional language … (this next bit doesn’t translate well, at least to someone whose French is a little rusty like mine) … One would like less speculation and more facts. The result is that this article gives a profoundly false impression of the state of relations between Rome and the SSPX.”
“Instead of attributing to the Superior General remarks which he hasn’t made, it seems preferable to us to make available to everyone, on the site of DICI, the complete recording of the conference which he gave at Villepreux on Saturday 14 October, during which he shows exactly where relations are between Rome and Econe. One can see in what terms precisely Mgr Fellay speaks of “withdrawal of the decree of excommunication”, which he distinguishes well from a lifting of sanctions.”
“Click here to hear the conference given by Mgr Fellay at Villepreux on 14 October 2006.”
sure makes those rumours seem to be untrue, it seems that the
SSPX is not coming any closer to reconciliation with Rome right?
LilyM was gracious enough to translate it for me as it was in French. Here is the article and please tell me if you all think the language in it seems to say that the reconcialition is no closer than it was before:
“Response to a Le Figaro article of Monday 16 October 2006.”
“Le Figaro, on Monday 16 October 2006, published an article by Sophie de Ravinel entitled “Lefebvrists: Rome about to lift sanctions”. This article, which supposedly announces the sending of a message to the Pope by Mgr Fellay demanding the withdrawal of the excommunication, contains two mistakes which lead to an untruth.”
“Sophie de Ravinel confuses the two prerequisites stated by Mgr Fellay at the beginning of 2001 (liberalisation of the traditional Mass and retraction of the decree of excommunication) with the “spiritual bouquet” of a million chaplets (rosaries) which he offered to the Pope at the end of October to demand the freedom of the Tridentine Mass.”
"And she confuses this spiritual bouquet addressed to the Pope with the response made by Mgr Fellay to a letter of Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos. In this letter of last June – which was published (at the time?) – there was neither any mention of an “immediate return to the mass in Latin” nor any call in the letter for the “reestablishment of full communion with the See of Peter” "
"These distinctions made, it is false to assert, as Sophie de Ravinel has done, that “the superior of this Fraternity founded by Mgr Lefebvre in 1970 has in effect announced in the Figaro his intention of sending a message to Benedict XVI containing this request (for the lifting of the sanctions) along with a demand for the liberalisation of the mass of the Tridentine rite … and that this is “in response to a message sent roughly four months ago by Cardinal Castrillon Hoyos”. "
“The Figaro article uses lots of conditional language … (this next bit doesn’t translate well, at least to someone whose French is a little rusty like mine) … One would like less speculation and more facts. The result is that this article gives a profoundly false impression of the state of relations between Rome and the SSPX.”
“Instead of attributing to the Superior General remarks which he hasn’t made, it seems preferable to us to make available to everyone, on the site of DICI, the complete recording of the conference which he gave at Villepreux on Saturday 14 October, during which he shows exactly where relations are between Rome and Econe. One can see in what terms precisely Mgr Fellay speaks of “withdrawal of the decree of excommunication”, which he distinguishes well from a lifting of sanctions.”
“Click here to hear the conference given by Mgr Fellay at Villepreux on 14 October 2006.”
J
JKirkLVNV
Guest
Look at it pragmatically, Doc: The wing-nut leftist bishops can make valid bishops as well as the wing-nut right bishops can. The Holy Father doesn’t want an even larger schism. He won’t be, for instance, repudiating VII (even if he were inclined to do so). He won’t be ditiching collegiality or a lot of other things they’d like to see go in the ditch.
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