Bishop Morlino Sacks Dissident Feminist Pastoral Associate, Elicits Rage from Liberal Community

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Br_Mark said:
I think it might be helful to reread last sundays gospel, especially John 3:20-21; “For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come towards the light, so that his works might not be exposed. But whoever lives the truth comes to the light, so that his works may be clearly seen as in God.”
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Well, the proof that you were supposed to be providing does not “come towards the light” when you click on it…😉
 
Rocky8311 said:
Brother, please cite some proof. The only fruit I’ve seen reported is good. If the number of real Catholics in his diocese are now be realized to be lower than previously thought, then that’s unfortunate. Perhaps by fostering better catechesis, the next generation will return.

But I feel like this article tells everything I need to know about the man. The woman he had to let go clearly made a choice to not embrace the Catholic faith, and as such has no place in authority or on the payroll. It’s very reasonable.
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Okay, my parish is linked with the one in which this happened, and I feel kind of exposed here since I use my real name, but at least I feel I am more focused on being charitable. I’ve given my rantings to my dh and he to me in private on this on many evenings. Longtime parishioners at my parish are not surprised and I’d say many support this decision. We have observed funny business going on at the linked parish (St. T) for years, like minor liturgical abuse (not corrected by a change in priest). Some former parishioners I know, and some I have come to know left there because they knew they were not getting correct Catholic doctrine taught to them and their children. I know at least one family personally who did speak with the PA who was fired (this was yrs ago) and pointed out they knew what was being taught was not orthodox, but nothing was done. I do not know if they wrote to the Bishop or Chancellor.

One thing I learned from this was that the Chancellor in the Diocese is the one to call for complaints and concerns about lay leaders and teachers (PA, DRE’s, etc.). The Vicar General is the one to deal with priests and deacons.

Fortunately, there is a diocese less than a mile away where the Catholic culture is much stronger, just across the border in IL. I mean, it’s almost weird how different it is down there (Bishop Doran territory). Many strong pro-life groups, that kind of thing; Family Conferences with the “big hitters”; Scott Hahn, Tim Staples, Ros Moss (whom I have met), Christopher West. I heard Bshp Doran did not even allow the CCHD envelopes to be passed out when that scandal broke.

What is distressing is that the local paper has given this story to the front page here! Nothing in the Herald; and I can see why (no reason to drag it out). One more thing not brought out, but I think related is that Mrs. Kolpack (the PA who was fired) was (and maybe still is) also the president of an Alinsky-style group, like a little ACORN, known as JOB. It has a leftist political agenda and I have been at the forefront of helping fellow parishioners to realize why we should not get involved in it. Of course, the dissidents are the ones pushing this also (all in the name of social justice). I doubt involvement in this was among the reasons for firing, but it goes to show the co-mingling of certain political views with dissident activity (IMO).

This firing also places much greater demands on our priest, who was already stressed. The very fact that the PA who was fired had taken over so many roles makes his job harder at this point, too. I hope and pray a replacement can be found for the PA job quickly, but someone who is staunchly orthodox and also very likeable. Maybe a woman religious who doesn’t mind wearing the habit!

For sure, there is a wide-open mission field in which to evangelize and catechize right in my own backyard!

I think the Body of Christ is being scourged again – and during Lent, too. What a shame, what a shame. Lord have mercy on us all!

Mimi
 
Br_Mark said:
Dear Corki & Irishpatrick,

neither of you have answered the primary question of why these outstanding bishops have ties to right wing groups ?? It is not a matter of disliking a bishop, but a matter of questioning motives and approach to authority. Remember until the resent past a bishop needed the accent of belivers in the diocese. Bishop Morlino operates in a vaccume and does not even consult with his fellow priest or the lay menbers of the diocese.

Br Mark, OSB
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Dude, are you really Catholic? Are you really in full communion with the Holy See? Your user name implies that you are consecrated religious. I see no evidence of this in your posts.
 
Br_Mark said:
Dear Corki & Irishpatrick,

neither of you have answered the primary question of why these outstanding bishops have ties to right wing groups ?? It is not a matter of disliking a bishop, but a matter of questioning motives and approach to authority. Remember until the resent past a bishop needed the accent of belivers in the diocese. Bishop Morlino operates in a vaccume and does not even consult with his fellow priest or the lay menbers of the diocese.

Br Mark, OSB
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Let’s examine some of these statements:
  1. “a matter of questioning motives”
------ I am not sure that questioning motives is always going to give us the answers to the questions. It is very difficult to judge what is in the hearts of men. Men make judgments that are not alwasy the best, but they don’t always have a sinister motive. Sometimes, situations change. In addition I am unsure how this allows us to judge a bishop’s management of his diocese if he is acting within his rights as the Ordinary. We need to step back sometimes and let people do their job.
  1. “approach to authority”
----- Even though I’m not a Benedictine Monk, I know something about them, because our Poor Clare nuns have a government similar to that of the Benedictines. While I do understand that any man or woman who is invested with an office of authority should bring to it the most Christ-like approach, I also understand that these are human beings and that they are very different from each other. No two superiors have the same approach to authority. I know that people’s approach also evolve.

Being a Benedictine where abbots are usually elected for life, I can’t believe that their approach to authority evolves and that every likes the evolution. But calling into question the superior’s approach to authority will serve to enlighten us, but does not absolve us from obeying, unless we are asked to do harm to our souls, this must be real harm, not imagined or pure speculation. Every action has the potential to turn sour. But that does not meant that we never obey. We must obey when the action poses no immedidate danger to our soul.
  1. “the assent of the faithful in his diocese”
This assent was a faith gesture, not a canonical or legislative one. The moment a Pope names a bishop to a see, the his the legitimate and canonical pastor of that see. The assent was an assent to faith. The faithful accepted that the Chair of Peter had spoken and given them a rightful successor to the apostles to lead them. It was never like the Protestant idea that bishops are elected by councils, hired and fired by their people and so forth. This puts the people between the present bishop and the line of apostolic succession. It would imply that the faithful have apostolic succession to the episcopacy. Such as never been the case in the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.
  1. “Bishop M. operates in a vacuum and does not even consult with his priests”
Let’s get this part right. Vatican II encouraged the Bishops to develop committees, deaneries and other organizations where the priests would be able to contribute to the diocese and even give the bishop feedback, if he wants it. But this was not mandatory on any bishop, just like consulting with religious is not mandatory in many communities of religious.

In my community, the Major Superior has a council. He listens to them and then desides. The voice and opiinion of the rest of the brothers MAY BE filtered to his attention through the Council. Other than that, he makes a canonical visit with each brother once a year. But we have no authority over his decisions.

The only body that has greater authority than the superior is a Chapter. The same applies to a bishop. The only body that has greater authority over an Ordinary is the Holy See or a Council of Bishops. The laity, religious and clergy of the diocese may have some wonderful ideas. Maybe the bihsop can learn from them. But we must learn some tolerance too. We mut learn humility and obey those who exercise legitimate authority even when we know that we have a better idea.

I’ve had superior who , in my opinion, needed medication, not authority. However, authority is what they had and obedience is what we showed them. The same has happened in some dioceses where I have served. I have not always liked the bishops’ policies. But part of our agreement when we go into a dioces is that the bishop respects our Franciscan charism and we follow his orders regarding the ministry that we’re doing for his diocese, not what goes on in our houses. That’s our business. Just the work that we do for the bishop.

The priests, religious and lay people who may have trouble with this bishop’s policies may have to ask for an opportunity to engage him in dialogue. If that does not work, then bite the bullet or move. You can’t have it your way all the time, especially if someone is acting withing his rights.

Fraternally,

Br. Julian Richard (aka JR), OSF
 
For the record, Bp. Morlino’s predecessor was The Most Reverend Bishop William H. Bullock, who remains Bishop Emeritus.
 
I happen to be Conservative. I know Morlino. I don’t like, him, and that Consulting Firm has more Ethics than him. If you only knew what I knew, you would not like him. He’s not all that conservative.
 
Bishop Morlino didn’t uphold Church Teachings, when I knew him. He’s grandstanding, and trying to get noticed, so he’ll get tapped for a Cardinal’s Hat.

If you only knew the dirt on Morlino, you wouldn’t jump on his self made band wagon. By his fruits you will know him. I regretfully know this clown. Glad you folks have him not us.

He could have corrected that lady and won her soul for Christ. That’s what a Bishop is supposed to do.

Whose minding the Madison Diocese Accounting Department?
 
This thread is about Bishop Morlino firing a Pastoral Associate because she wrote in a 2003 Thesis that she felt women should be ordained. This thesis was written six years ago. Bishop Morlino will celebrate six years as Bishop of Madison this summer. Why is he addressing this with her now?

The situation at St. Paul’s on the UW campus was multilayered and far worse than just feminists at the altar mimicking the Mass. The Diocese had lost complete control over the parish. When Bishop Bullock realized that he had lost control of the parish, he sent Father Randy Timmerman, an exceptionally orthodox and holy man, and the right priest to be on campus to recruit young men to the priesthood, to clean up the situation. Fr. Timmerman fought the good fight and restored control of St. Paul’s to the Diocese within eighteen months of his appointment as Parochial Vicar(!). This happened while Bullock was still the Bishop. When Morlino took over as Bishop, Bullock had gotten things taken care of at St. Paul’s. Instead of being on campus to recruit young men to the priesthood, Bishop Morlino reassigned Fr. Timmerman to a parish in Janesville.
 
MusicMan said:
This thread is about Bishop Morlino firing a Pastoral Associate because she wrote in a 2003 Thesis that she felt women should be ordained. This thesis was written six years ago. Bishop Morlino will celebrate six years as Bishop of Madison this summer. Why is he addressing this with her now?

The situation at St. Paul’s on the UW campus was multilayered and far worse than just feminists at the altar mimicking the Mass. The Diocese had lost complete control over the parish. When Bishop Bullock realized that he had lost control of the parish, he sent Father Randy Timmerman, an exceptionally orthodox and holy man, and the right priest to be on campus to recruit young men to the priesthood, to clean up the situation. Fr. Timmerman fought the good fight and restored control of St. Paul’s to the Diocese within eighteen months of his appointment as Parochial Vicar(!). This happened while Bullock was still the Bishop. When Morlino took over as Bishop, Bullock had gotten things taken care of at St. Paul’s. Instead of being on campus to recruit young men to the priesthood, Bishop Morlino reassigned Fr. Timmerman to a parish in Janesville.
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“Instead of being on campus to recruit young men to the priesthood, Bishop Morlino reassigned Fr. Timmerman to a parish in Janesville”

So? Maybe The Bishop thought he could do another great job at recruiting and teaching the Faith in Janesville. Someone told me (and maybe someone else can tell me if this is so) – that priests are usually in a parish about 10 yrs, and then they are moved, so as not to have a “cult of personality” develop; that the parish is growing bc of who the priest is and not because of the excellent Catholic culture there.

We laity are not privy to all the factors going on in certain decisions, and this is a good thing, IMO.

Mrs. Kolpack was NOT fired primarily for her thesis, as I understand it. If you read my previous post, I wrote, in part:
We have observed funny business going on at the linked parish (St. T) for years, like minor liturgical abuse (not corrected by a change in priest). Some former parishioners I know, and some I have come to know left there because they knew they were not getting correct Catholic doctrine taught to them and their children. I know at least one family personally who did speak with the PA who was fired (this was yrs ago) and pointed out they knew what was being taught was not orthodox, but nothing was done.
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She supported (by monetary contribution) a group who was against the “one-woman-one-man marriage act” here. CTA, (Call to Action) who is rallying behind her, wants all the same-sex attraction coupling to be legitimized and recognized as “normal”, so they think the Church needs to change. This is obviously NOT what Holy Mother Church teaches. So, besides women’s so-called ordination, there are other factors.

That this was allowed to go on for so long, is indeed disconcerting, esp. when people DID complain – was there ever any serious investigation by the diocese, or, (as I suspect) were there just so many dissident sympathizers (for lack of a better term) that this kept getting swept under the rug?

Does it matter now? I don’t think so. The situation has been rectified. The CTA wants to keep this in the headlines and will do their best to politicize the matter.

I hope the pending meeting with the Bishop will not turn into a media circus, and that he and the supporters of RK will be civil and PRIVATE.

Others not directly involved in that meeting plan to gather and pray in the church during this time.

Mimi

(PS hi Jolene)
 
isthmuscatholic.org/index.cfm?load=page&page=265

What is the relationship between the bishop and his priests?
Catholic priests are not “independent contractors” nor are they hired by the parishes they serve; they are coworkers with their bishop. It is the bishop who decides who will be accepted as a candidate for the priesthood, and in which seminary the candidates will be educated. Priests are ordained for the service of a particular diocese, and at ordination promise obedience to their bishop and his successors. Throughout his life, a priest receives his assignments to work in one place or another from his bishop.

What do priests do?
As the bishop is responsible for the spiritual and temporal welfare of his diocese, a priest who is pastor is responsible for the spiritual and temporal welfare of the parish to which he is assigned. The priest must do his work “in communion with the bishop,” following the bishop’s particular instructions, as well as the general law of the Catholic Church. Immediately after ordination, a new priest will typically assist a more veteran priest who is the pastor of a relatively large parish. The technical title for such a young priest is “parochial vicar.”

Couldn’t a Parochial Vicar serve as Pastoral Assoc as well? I would think that would help him get to know what it’s like to serve in a parish quite well.

Can a deacon serve as a Pastoral Assoc?

What ARE the qualifications for a lay person to be considered for PA?
Where does one find out (I’m definitely not interested, BTW).

Mimi
 
My knowledge of the reasons for her firing comes from the Wisconsin State Journal article this week.

In my mind, one of three things can only be logically happening here:

1.) The PA is guilty of other, questionable issues that have not been properly reported. Media tends to focus on one thing, and doesn’t always dig for deeper reasons.

2.) A mob mentality has emerged that dislikes this woman and has fabricated or manipulated other issues that the Bishop has decided she is guilty of.

3.) Bishop Morlino is targeting people and situations to “make a name for himself” with Rome.

All three are plausible, and I’m making no call on it either way without further information. Further information that I don’t much feel a need to look into for my purposes here.
 
Mimi said:
isthmuscatholic.org/index.cfm?load=page&page=265

What is the relationship between the bishop and his priests?
Catholic priests are not “independent contractors” nor are they hired by the parishes they serve;
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This is not always true. If a priest is also a religious, he is not part of the bishop’s staff or team. He works for the diocese under a contract that his religious community has made with the bishop. This alway includes two parts. 1) The religious are autonomous and answer to the bishop only on those areas for which they are payed. 2) The religious have the right to abandone the parish at a moment’s notice if the laity or the bishop fail to accept their way of life or interfere in their community obligation and the bishop may ask them to leave a parish if they do not meet the needs of the bishop.

In some dioceses, diocesan priests (secular priests) are also independent contractors. They are self-employed. They are neither employees of the diocese or the parish. They are obedient to the bishop in all matters that pertain to ministry. But they can resign from a parish or a pastor can also reject the bishop’s proposal to place a particular priest in his parish.
they are coworkers with their bishop. It is the bishop who decides who will be accepted as a candidate for the priesthood, and in which seminary the candidates will be educated. Priests are ordained for the service of a particular diocese, and at ordination promise obedience to their bishop and his successors. Throughout his life, a priest receives his assignments to work in one place or another from his bishop.
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As stated before, this only applies to priest who are secular, not to those who are also religious. Those who are religious vow to obey their superior and the brothers and are ordained for either their community’s needs or the universal Church, never a diocese.
Couldn’t a Parochial Vicar serve as Pastoral Assoc as well? I would think that would help him get to know what it’s like to serve in a parish quite well.
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Parochial Vicars were eliminated by John Paul II. All priests are Associate Pastors, Assistant Pastors or Coadjutors. A Coadjutor has the right of succession. An Associate is just what the word says. And the Assistants are what that word says.

This does exist in parishes staffed by reilgious. They are always Pastors and Assistants. This distinction is only for secular priests, also known as diocesan priests.

A Pastoral Associate is a person who has an office of ministry within the Church, but is not ordained. To be a Pastoral Associate you must usually have at least a Master’s Degree in Theology or in Ministry. You have the same level of education as a priest.

Deacons cannot be Pastoral Associates, because they are ordained clergy. The Deacon is not an Assistan Pastor either, because he is not a presbyter. He is a Deacon. He has a different role. A deacon can be a Parish administrator when there is not priest to serve as a pastor.

Hope this helps.

JR 🙂
 
MusicMan said:
This thread is about Bishop Morlino firing a Pastoral Associate because she wrote in a 2003 Thesis that she felt women should be ordained. This thesis was written six years ago. Bishop Morlino will celebrate six years as Bishop of Madison this summer. Why is he addressing this with her now?
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I wonder about this sort of thing, too. If the church moved more quickly to squash such pests, would they simply hide better or would it actually be effective? Why was she hired in the first place if that was her Master’s thesis? WEIRD.
 
Darryl1958 said:
There was a time when Arians were in the majority in the Catholic Church. some may argue that that is still the case in the East where the fruits of Arianism reached their logical conclusion under the teachings of Mohammed.

I can understand why many people would want a modern version of Christianity which gives woman that front and center role. I also understand that that is not Cathlicism.
The number of Catholics filling the pews in the alternate church may indeed be large. Larger still are the number of Catholics filling the golf course and the clubs scene and the myriad of other activities that are happening on Sundays.

We can all relate. I am sure that there are few Catholics indeed whose faith does not fail them when they more strongly believe in the comforts of remaining in the sin that remains most prominent in their lives.

But the fact remains. However natural, good, logical or rational something may appear, if it is against Catholic teaching it is sin.

And the fruits of sin are death.

Eventually, we can all relate to that too.
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We can see what the Church would look like if such people got their way: It is called the Episcopal Church. In that church, the modernists took the reigns of power and bishops were installed who thought as this minority did that the Scriptures and Tradition are “old hat.”–ourdated-- myth. So we have this venerable body which had preserved much of the true faith destroyed in the course of forty years and the Christians in it left in the power of people of another religion.
 
Rocky8311 said:
I wonder about this sort of thing, too. If the church moved more quickly to squash such pests, would they simply hide better or would it actually be effective? Why was she hired in the first place if that was her Master’s thesis? WEIRD.
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She was hired by people in the diocese who thought her views acceptable. The central offices of many diocese are full of such people, so is that of the USCCB.
 
She was hired by that parish, not the Diocese. I believe she was hired prior to writing that thesis.
 
Having written a thesis and a disssertation in theology I can tell from experience, that you are not expected to write only about orthodox or acceptable practices and teachings. The Church considers it legitimate for one to write about a dissenting topic as long as you inform the reader that the positions are your conclusions and not of the Church, but that you put them out there for the good of the Church, especially other theologians who may follow you and want to read dissenting positions, even if they disagree with you. It gives them an understanding of what the positions are and what the arguments are for them. It is both an academic exercise and a service to students of theology who follow you, becuase you thesis usually remains the porperty of the university. It is rarely sold to publishers.

That would have no bearing on why whe was hired. She probably presented with the proper credentials, references and like any other person applying for a position, presented well.

The issue is not why she was hired. The issue is concerning those who feel tha the bishop is wrong for taking supervisory action in the case of an employee who is not representing what the Church teaches, nor is opting to keep her opinions ot herself. Many non-Catholics do work for the Church at various levels, even in supervisory capacities. But part of their contract is that they have to support and represent Church policies and they must reserve their faith disagreements. In other words, keep them out of the prubic sphere. Even Catholics have to do this, whether you’re priest, religious or secular man or woman. There are going to be areas that you disagree with or question, but you keep those out of your work enviornment if you work for the Catholic Church. The same applies to the Catholic who works for a Jewish organization. You keep you faith differences to yourself, while on the job. If that’s not possible, you leave the job.

Another thing that I see as wrong is wanting to over analyze the bishop’s style of government or leadership and his understanding of authority. During the 1970s and 1980s popular psychology took over the minds of Europeans and most of the English speaking world. All of a sudden terms such as leadership styles and attitude toward authority became almost cliches.

As Fr. Benedict Groeschel once said, it cannot be denied that the treatment of diocesan clergy and religious prior to Vatican II was often oppresive and at times a bit inhuman. However, the members themselves were very sincere.

Maybe the Bishop may need to learn to tone down his manner so that it is more pastoral and more humane. But the fact that it may lack tact, I don’t know this, not knowing the man, is no reason to dispute his right to get his diocese on an orthodox course. A lack of tact is neither a crime nor a capital sin. It’s poor style.

If the bishop needs better style, the fiathful, religiosu and clergy have their resources to go to and to advocate for them.

On the other hand, adopting a more Protestant model of dissent because we disagree with a person’s style of leadership or our perception of his understanding of authority can be a sign of arrogance on our part too.

Maybe what we’re seeing on this thread is that while some speak of the bishop’s arrogance, they may be reflecting the arrogance on both sides of this problem: that of the bishop and that of those who want to tell him how to be a bishop. When arrogance meets arrogance, it only leads to war.

The only way to have peace is for someone to decide to take action by thinking outside the box. Find another way to deal with what seems to be a difficult person. I can’t call him that, because I’ve never met him. But if he is difficult to deal with, there are other ways outside the box. Inside the box we usually find dissent and condemnation as the only solutions to deal with a difficult person…

There are more things to be tried that lead to success and the acquisition of virtue, especialy prudence and patience.

Fraternally,

JR 🙂
 
This thread has been edited. Allegations about the bishop not linked to news sources and off topic posts have been removed. Please read the forum rules, folks.
 
JReducation said:
Having written a thesis and a disssertation in theology I can tell from experience, that you are not expected to write only about orthodox or acceptable practices and teachings
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Theologians and students are allowed a great deal of latitude. It is one way the Church grows and develops doctring. Both the liberal and the conservative theologian contribute to this process. However, this thesis was written in 2003, after Pope John Paul II declared that the discussion on female ordination was over and was to cease.
 
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