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YoungTradCath
Guest
Father, did you read both documents linked to in this thread?
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Digitonomy
Guest
I got that feeling from the bishop’s letter, before I ever read the article.Of course the secular media is going to make traditional conservative priests sound arrogant.
I didn’t really notice any discrepancy between the bishop’s letter and the article - the article gave both sides of the story, and bishop gave 1½. It really wasn’t his job to present the “other” side of the story, but he did a good bit of it anyway.
Obviously one takes the claims listed in the article with a grain of salt. The newspaper story isn’t about the facts, it’s about the conflict - so even if those quoted are wrong as to the facts, what they perceive to be the problem is worth reporting.
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pnewton
Guest
Just reading the allegations has me scratching my head. One, only one, has any legitimacy and that was addressed. Rather the very allegations reveal that the dissent in this parish has a weak foundation. I would look more to what was done wrong before these priests arrived that left parishioners with such a skewed understanding of the faith.
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ringil
Guest
Not giving communion because they thought a parishoner had “dirty hands” was the only one that made me . . . . cringe. . . . That does sound like a pretty jerky thing to do.
It does look like they solved that however.
They sound like good priests. The Church isn’t a democracy. Parishioners need to deal with what they’re dealt. This would go for more liberal-liturgically-speaking priests as well. The pastors are in Charge.
It does look like they solved that however.
They sound like good priests. The Church isn’t a democracy. Parishioners need to deal with what they’re dealt. This would go for more liberal-liturgically-speaking priests as well. The pastors are in Charge.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
The complaints are utterly baseless, yes. I sympathize with these priests.
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mikelionheart
Guest
Let us hope that after 50 years of priests that have come close to ruining the faith due to their lack of doctrinal knowledge and over emphasis on pastoral issues and pleasing the congregation are not now going t be followed by 50 years of priests who have perfect doctrinal knowledge but no pastoral abilities at all.
Having knowledge does not mean you are meant to be a priest. Go be a teacher.
Having knowledge does not mean you are meant to be a priest. Go be a teacher.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
I think it is quite possible to be “pastoral” but at the same time be despised by your parishioners.
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mikelionheart
Guest
It’s also possible to be doctrinally correct (which, for some reason, all the posters here seem to have decided that some members of the congregation aren’t) and to be pastoral and handle situations with care.
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YoungTradCath
Guest
It has not been proven that either has been the case. It seems that parishioners think they’re right and push it so far as to effectively destroy their parish school even after reprimand from several levels of authority.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
Yes.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
There’s a general rule of thumb when becoming pastor of a parish: “don’t change anything for at least a year.” Parishes are rarely very receptive to suddenly overhauling the way things have been done for a decade or longer. This parish was upset the priests didn’t permit altar girls, another parish with the opposite tradition would most likely be very upset if a new priest introduced altar girls.
I also highly doubt that the closing of the school is in any way substantially related to the new priests. The Bishop alluded to a history of problems with the school’s finances in his letter but didn’t go into specifics. If the school was financially sound and then suddenly had finance issues related to these priests it doesn’t make sense that the school should close. Schools routinely carry serious debt for years before they close so the idea that this school suddenly went from the black to the red and needs to close doesn’t pass the smell test.
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pollycarp
Guest
This recently happened at a local parish. Told her she wasn’t needed at the fish fry where she’d worked for many years. She actually joined another denomination. This is just appalling to me.
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superamazingman
Guest
Exactly! How do you handle someone who grew up thinking murder is ok (I’m not talking about abortion, just straight up post-natal murder)? Is it “pastoral” to correct them? Heck yeah. Will they probably like it, or accept it, or get a fuzzy feeling inside? Probably not. They would probably get mad at the priest who told them that.
Being pastoral is not about fuzzy feelings. It’s more like parenting. It’s sometimes tough love.
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superamazingman
Guest
I would not be surprised at all if it rose to a higher level, including canonical warnings and penalties. You have no idea how intense some of the liberal groups are around here. We’ve got Call to Action, and also underground associations of ultra-liberal priests. We have many young priests beginning to change the tide, but it’s still a rough fight.
Everyone around here is kind of preparing for a showdown, because it’s been shown time and time again that these liberals have next to no respect for the bishop, and will put up a fight (which is why we really need a bishop like Morlino here). A few pastors have (do?) frequently mock him in homilies, or preceded the Bishop’s recorded message on gay “marriage” with disclaimers trying to tell their flock to disregard everything in the recording.
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manualman
Guest
The entire thing is rather vague and short on specifics. I suspect I might know why, but admit I have never been to this particular parish. I lived in Madison in the early 1990’s under a previous bishop (whom I never met, never heard from and was elderly at the time, so I don’t mean to impugn him in what follows).
The parish I attended was blocks away from the cathedral of the diocese (Newmann Center, actually). Theological sewage flowed down the aisles of the place! Allow me to list what went on for the 5 years I lived there (I almost always went to mass elsewhere after year 1):
Again, I’ve never been to the parish in the article, but based on the general atmosphere in the diocese in the decades prior to Bishop Morlino, I suspect this may be a major contributor.
The parish I attended was blocks away from the cathedral of the diocese (Newmann Center, actually). Theological sewage flowed down the aisles of the place! Allow me to list what went on for the 5 years I lived there (I almost always went to mass elsewhere after year 1):
- “Our Father, Our Mother God, who art in heaven…”
- Leavened, honey containing crumbly loaves used for communion, that left crumbs everywhere on the polished concrete floor.
- Each and every parishioner was an “EMHC” for the person behind him in line at communion.
- A woman wore deacon’s vestments (no stole, or whatever the deacon’s is called), preached homilies and (worst) extended her hands appearing to concelebrate during consecration.
- In the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier…
- All mass parts, readings and responses rendered gender neutral.
Again, I’ve never been to the parish in the article, but based on the general atmosphere in the diocese in the decades prior to Bishop Morlino, I suspect this may be a major contributor.
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superamazingman
Guest
You are so right. I don’t like to bash the previous bishops, but in short, that is what they nurtured and allowed. It’s just that simple. The diocese was a cess-pit, and that’s not an exaggeration.
Then when people are finally taught the truth, it comes as a shock.
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superamazingman
Guest
Passing reference? It was the climax of the whole letter, the way I read it.
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ringil
Guest
There are countless ways to say the exact same thing.
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NewEnglandPriest
Guest
I didn’t read it that way. To me it came across as a, “let’s not go down this road” kind of statement. It was a way to bring to their attention what could happen but there were no direct threats.
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superamazingman
Guest
But like I said, sometimes, there’s a need for tough love. Not always, but sometimes.
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