Bishop Morlino warns dissenters to stop — or else

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JReducation said:
The answer is very simple. The community’s charism is never going to contradict the Church. The charism is given to the community by the Holy Spirit through the founder and approved by the Church. The example that you give, would not be part of any community’s charism, because it’s contrary to Church law.
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True. And that’s what I assumed. But it doesn’t prevent a community from claiming that maximum congregational participation (in Mass) is part of the charism (and then applying that “participation” in whatever way they choose to interpret). I suspect that’s what the justification would be.
 
Alan55 said:
“Conservative” and “liberal” are terms that suggest that both sides have legitimate positions that include them in the spectrum of orthodoxy. “Orthodox” and “heterodox” are terms that judge that only one side is in possession of the truth and should be thought of as a true member of the Church. It isn’t a matter of which set of terms you prefer.
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Conservative and liberal are political terms and they don’t apply to theology and doctrine. They apply to politics.

The Catholic church is not an ice cream parlor where you pick your favorite flavors. The Catholic church makes truth claims; it always has made truth claims and always will. Heterodox and orthodox are exactly the correct terms when talking about fidelity or perversion of theology or doctrine.

het·er·o·dox  [het-er-uh-doks]
adjective
  1. not in accordance with established or accepted doctrines or opinions, especially in theology; unorthodox.
  2. holding unorthodox doctrines or opinions.
 
Alan55 said:
That “crazy” council was a duly constituted ecumenical council of the world’s bishops together with the Pope, not some book club.
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Fine. But the crazy people after the council misconstrued it to mean all kinds of things the documents never said.
 
However, I’ve read both letters by Bishop Morlino and I don’t see where he’s trying to impose anything new or novel on people. He’s being very patient actually.

The people complaining seem to be the ones trying to talk about theology, but they also seem to misunderstand it all. They can’t even come up with anything that’s problematic. I get the impression from reading the complaints that whoever’s doing the complaining has no idea what’s really in the basic Church documents that Bishop Morlino generously quotes for them. Perhaps they have never read the documents of Vatican II and really are that ignorant?
 
superamazingman said:
I’m proud to call this heroic man my bishop: threatening to put an interdict on a parish where they are backbiting and destroying the priests, simply because they are faithful priests.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/bishop-morlino-warns-dissenters-to-stop-or-else/article_7b4c5820-9187-11e1-bd38-001a4bcf887a.html
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I have not, as yet, read the majority of the posts here, but would also like to voice my support of my bishop, Robert Morlino.

The radical & dissident atmosphere in our state has been in need of correction for some time. We are now seeing the shepherd calling the sheep; those who know his voice will heed and return to the flock.

In a homily a few yrs ago, the priest told us that he’d had the opportunity to see a real shepherd & his dog in action. The shepherd told the priest that his flock would only come when *he *called them & invited the priest to try it. Sure enough, when the priest (alien voice to the sheep) tried, the sheep would not move. Interesting, huh?

Thank you, JReducation (Br. JR, FFV), for your insights on the matter.
The liberal press is indeed going to couch this in terms of conservative & liberal, which is not the language that should be used. Politicization of ecclesial matters is one of the ways in which the forces of evil try to break up the unity of God’s family. We must not let that plot succeed!

I am sure B. Morlino would appreciate a note of concern & to know that many are praying for him and for the Church. There is a support group page at yahoo where one could do this: supportbishopmorlino.com/

God bless,
Mimi
 
Elizabeth502 said:
True. And that’s what I assumed. But it doesn’t prevent a community from claiming that maximum congregational participation (in Mass) is part of the charism (and then applying that “participation” in whatever way they choose to interpret). I suspect that’s what the justification would be.
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If any community or society through something out there that is in conflict with the Church and claims that it’s part of its charism, it can certainly be proven untrue.

This is not the same as those communities that have indults concerning certain points in Canon Law. One has to be careful not to confuse those who are misrepresenting the facts and those who actually have permission to be different. The answer is always in the constitutions of the community. Every constitution must be approved by the Church. The community writes it and votes on it. The superior cannot promulgate it until the Church approves it. It can’t even go to print until the Church says so.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
Digitonomy said:
The Church may have been established by Christ, but it is run by men. There have always been, and there will always be, clerics who are more liberal or more conservative, and the same with the laity. As a result, there will always be politics where these people of diverse perspectives interact.

Whose idea was it to have a school in the first place? I don’t know, but some person or group of people had to lobby for it, convince enough people it was a good idea so as to get approval, convince donors to contribute, and parents to send their students there. Meanwhile, the people who opposed the school, and instead wanted a cemetery, or garden, or grotto, or just didn’t want the big old tree cut down, had to be considered. For some of these steps, the pastor could simply accomplish them by fiat. But a wise pastor is going to read parish politics carefully; if there is very limited support for a school, he’s not going to take out huge loans, offend some parishioners, and expend countless hours of his own and others’ time on a project that’s going to fail.

Politics is simply the overall process of managing people’s egos and ideals. It’s not something to be feared, it’s a necessary part of running a parish.
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🤷 Your comment doesn’t even make sense in this situation. The school was there before. The reason it is closing is because parishioners withdrew their support in reaction to these new priests who apparently came in with too heavy a hand for some parishioners.

I’m well aware that politics happen and that the church is run by men. I’m not afraid of politics and I know men run the church. But this isn’t just politics. It is egos running up against each other and it a terrible example of the church when it gets in the press, giving attackers even more ammunition against the church. It makes me ill to think that this is the church and how it operates–and I “get it”-- imagine how the typical person reading the Sunday paper story reacted.

I have had conversations with lapsed catholics and non-catholics who read the papers here in Madison and are convinced that the Bishop is a bully and wrong. The bishop gets bad press most every time he speaks up. That’s what makes me sick–the whole non-unity in the church here and how it looks to others looking in. Now we have to not only listen to the priest abuse jokes but now we have to listen to people commenting about the bishop and these priests. I only use “liberal” and “conservative” because there are priests strict and non-strict. I’m just a layperson who has recently stepped into this mess… I don’t know the correct terms not do I care. I only care that I want to get to know God better, I love the Catholic church, and this is more garbage that the press can latch on to. God help us all.
 
manualman said:
The entire thing is rather vague and short on specifics. I suspect I might know why, but admit I have never been to this particular parish. I lived in Madison in the early 1990’s under a previous bishop (whom I never met, never heard from and was elderly at the time, so I don’t mean to impugn him in what follows).

The parish I attended was blocks away from the cathedral of the diocese (Newmann Center, actually). Theological sewage flowed down the aisles of the place! Allow me to list what went on for the 5 years I lived there (I almost always went to mass elsewhere after year 1):
  1. “Our Father, Our Mother God, who art in heaven…”
  2. Leavened, honey containing crumbly loaves used for communion, that left crumbs everywhere on the polished concrete floor.
  3. Each and every parishioner was an “EMHC” for the person behind him in line at communion.
  4. A woman wore deacon’s vestments (no stole, or whatever the deacon’s is called), preached homilies and (worst) extended her hands appearing to concelebrate during consecration.
  5. In the name of the Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier…
  6. All mass parts, readings and responses rendered gender neutral.
These are just what I remember quickly 20 years later. As far as I know, there were no corrective actions or enforcements taken to reign in these abuses the whole time. People get used to that sort of laissez faire oversight and people with leadership qualities start to step in and impose their own agendas. Those same people resent it when their alien agendas are rebuffed and actual catholicism is taught. Especially if it is re-imposed with a heavy hand.

Again, I’ve never been to the parish in the article, but based on the general atmosphere in the diocese in the decades prior to Bishop Morlino, I suspect this may be a major contributor.
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Look, I was catholic here in Madison back when the “abuses” listed above happened. I am a victim of it, as are hundreds if not thousands of others. Are we to blame for not being led by our leaders? I don’t think so. We just didn’t know back then.

I’ve had this discussion on this board before when Wisconsin and Morlino was in the news over this. The church here needs healing and people need to step back, start over, forgive, and heal–just as Morlino suggests.

I suspect that some of the dissenters (though I don’t know for sure) are feeling like a child being slapped when they were never told or learned what they were doing wrong. I feel that way sometimes when I read people comment on here who weren’t here back then. It’s so easy to judge when we don’t know the whole story. And believe me, the press here will exaggerate ANYTHING that will make the church look bad, or stir up a controversy to make a better story.

I am tired of going to church and hearing comments about all this when we so desperately need to get back to God. I believe the church here in our diocese was too far left (not in a political way but in its services and teachings) but going too far the other way is what’s happening here now, imho. I mean, how can you go from a church that probably was run by more liberal parishioners to one that has TLM and two confession times a day? Of course people are going to react!. There should have been a more gradual transition and now there needs to be teaching and lots of it, as well as healing. Sigh 😦
 
superamazingman said:
I’m proud to call this heroic man my bishop: threatening to put an interdict on a parish where they are backbiting and destroying the priests, simply because they are faithful priests.

host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/bishop-morlino-warns-dissenters-to-stop-or-else/article_7b4c5820-9187-11e1-bd38-001a4bcf887a.html
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Thanks for posting this!👍

God Bless this Bishop & these wonderful Holy Priests!:signofcross:

I did not know of them at all, I feel so bad for them, I feel sorry that they have had to endure such treatment from their parishioners. They are so Blessed to have these
wonderful holy Priests! Its sad that they do NOT see it…

In some places around the world, when there is no available Priests, parishes close…
Yet, these people chose to behave in such manner, turning against these Holy Faithful Priests! 😦

I am sorry about the school closing as well…😦 And these poor children are
losing & will suffer as well, because of some parishioners…Sad all aorund…

We live in a world, where its all about ME, instant gratification, power, pride, big egos, etc. :bighanky:

I will keep them all in my prayers,

God Bless,

Pax,

Megan:highprayer:
 
AnneTeresa said:
I mean, how can you go from a church that probably was run by more liberal parishioners to one that has TLM and two confession times a day? Of course people are going to react!.
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Wow. Yeah. Imagine. The nerve of those priests to shock the parishioners with the offensiveness of daily confession times.
:rolleyes:

Seriously: If the parishioners experience a need to “transition” to more confession opportunities, then it’s the parishioners, not the priests or any other member of the hierarchy, who need reform, and frankly are desperately in need of more confession times. 🤷
 
Elizabeth502 said:
Wow. Yeah. Imagine. The nerve of those priests to shock the parishioners with the offensiveness of daily confession times.
:rolleyes:

Seriously: If the parishioners experience a need to “transition” to more confession opportunities, then it’s the parishioners, not the priests or any other member of the hierarchy, who need reform, and frankly are desperately in need of more confession times. 🤷
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I was just pointing out the big difference for the parishioners–going from one end of the spectrum to the other. Your sarcasm is not appreciated.
 
AnneTeresa, I think you’ll notice that the bishop himself noted and acknowledged rather a bit of insensitivity on the part of the priests at the parish. I’m not aware of anybody defending excessive bluntness.

But as JR noted, these priests are from a religious community that has certain ‘charisms’ that make up their very identity. The Madison diocese lacked sufficient priests to staff the parishes and the bishop invited this community in to run this parish in response. Based on those facts on the ground, it is the duty of courtesy to allow those invited in to continue being who they are and living out their vocation in accordance with the mission of their community. They uprooted themselves and came to meet an unmet need (priests to staff the parish). And the response was anger, protest, resentment and complaints that they acted like shepherds instead of sheep? Sheesh. I just don’t get that.
 
^ nor do I, manualman.

The number of parishes and parishioners who would die for the TLM and for daily confession times far outnumber those who are ungrateful/resentful for that. Thanks be to God for priests who are willing to serve so abundantly and consistently. I will pray for these newly assigned priests.
 
AnneTeresa said:
I was just pointing out the big difference for the parishioners–going from one end of the spectrum to the other. Your sarcasm is not appreciated.
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It’s not sarcasm. They do have more opportunities for confession, starting at 5:30 in the morning. Now that’s impressive. But if the laypeople don’t want to show up, no one’s going to go drag them down to the church and make them confess. So, I have no idea what they’re complaining about.
 
The major superior of the Society must be a very patient man. I remember when we had a similar experience and we were history at the end of the first year. The bishop wrote a letter. The major superior came and asked the people to stoop by the office and tell him what his brothers were doing wrong. Nothing came up. After a year, he said to me, "Enough is enough. Pack up your guys and get back to the mother house. You have three months. I felt badly for the few people who were really nice to us.

People need to realize that this is a very real possibility when you have extern priests. Extern priests are incardinated into their institute or in another diocese. This is not their diocese and this parish is not the only place where they are needed. Bishops kill to have religious and societies complete their numbers.

Priests who are either religious or secular, but members of a society of apostolic life have as a first moral duty to preserve their institute and to make it grow. The apostolate to the outside world always comes second to the community. It’s like any other family. Your family comes before you neighbors.

A better course than whining and letter writing would be to sit down with the Fathers and explain what one feels the people need. But always keep in mind that need and like are not the same thing. No one is obliged to give us what we like, especially if it contradicts the charism of the community.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, FFV 🙂
 
iloveangels said:
It’s not sarcasm. They do have more opportunities for confession, starting at 5:30 in the morning. Now that’s impressive. But if the laypeople don’t want to show up, no one’s going to go drag them down to the church and make them confess. So, I have no idea what they’re complaining about.
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This is the comment I was referring to as sarcasm by Elizabeth502, not the situation being discussed.

“Wow. Yeah. Imagine. The nerve (in italics) of those priests to shock the parishioners with the offensiveness of daily confession times.”
 
Elizabeth502 said:
^ nor do I, manualman.

The number of parishes and parishioners who would die for the TLM and for daily confession times far outnumber those who are ungrateful/resentful for that. Thanks be to God for priests who are willing to serve so abundantly and consistently. I will pray for these newly assigned priests.
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Just an fyi, they aren’t really newly assigned anymore. 'bout two year and counting. This has just been going on THAT long.
 
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