Bishop orders priests to read anti-Obama letter at Sunday sermons

[fix]

Of course it is a much more serious sin to have an abortion or to kill a gas station attendent during a robbery, or to commit massive genocide the way Hilter did. And we should do all we can to try and stop those evils.

I’ve been against abortion for over 50 years, and worked after Roe v. Wade to try and make it illegal again, and also to try and reduce abortions. The two most important persons in my life were nearly aborted (and persons who possibly would have been very dear to my life have been abortion) when abortions were illegal. It is a very important issue to me.

I’m also against killing people in other ways, and I’m for saving lives.

And I don’t think it is as serious a sin to participate (being one in many millions) in contributing to the annihilation of much, perhaps all, of life on earth (from global warming and some 8 other very serious human-caused environmental problems) as to have an abortion.

I personally have never had an abortion and would never seek one. However, I am contributing to the annihilation of life on earth through environmental means, and I am striving to reduce that harm and killing.

RE voting, maybe I’m wrong, but I would vote for the person I think would either do the lesser harm to life, or would do the greater good in saving lives. I could be very wrong in that, and I always make it a point to confess what might possibly be a sin every time I vote. So far priests have laughed at me for thinking it was a sin, and have commended me for a well-formed conscience. However, I don’t really take their word for that, and I continue to confess after each election. I would recommend confession no matter for whom one votes – there is no perfect platform.

It’s just that I cannot vote for someone who is in favor of platforms and policies that would have the effect of annihilating life on earth – whether intentionally or unwittingly. I understand that annihilating life would solve the abortion issue quite effectively once and for all. However, I just cannot support that method.

So we have at least 2 very tough life issues – abortion and environmental harms that kill – and we are just going to have to roll up our sleeves and do the hard work on both to help mitigate these, it seems without the help of government.

Weather is in no way morally equally to the abortion issue. I am sorry but it seems you have contrived a whole lot of unusual theology here.

 

[Tampa_Dave]

It’s not a matter of regulating, Dave. It’s a matter of building structure in the local parish such that people are known, missed when they don’t show up, and expected to do certain things.

Right now, I’ve been Catholic more than 25 years. My parish is as cold as ice. I could run any kind of business, legal or otherwise, that I wanted and the Church doesn’t care. They don’t really know me, really. They simply don’t care. Everything is self-reported. Everything is self-determined. I could never look at another bible as long as I live, and no one would be the wiser. That’s wrong. That’s not how being a Christian is supposed to look.

I had no idea when I converted to the Catholic church that this would essentially be a do-it-yourself affair. But it is. And it’s no wonder the Church looks like it does. It’s no surprise to me whatsoever. The culture is stronger than the Church because the culture demands more than the Church and everyone you REALLY interact with is in the culture, not the Church. It’s a recipe for failure. And in at least 80% of cases, failure occurs. 80% of Catholic do not show up for mass once a week, and that’s an important number.

The Pareto rule says that 80% of the effects are caused by 20% of the causes. The fact that parishes are not structured to expect & monitor concrete behaviors of parishioners is one of the handful of real causes for this phenomenon. Another one is the near absence of communal activities for the purpose of making person-to-person bonds to the Church.

Haven’t you ever wondered why so many Catholic come to CAF to talk to other Catholics?? This is not an accident. I know a few people on here better than I know people in my own parish.

Catholics have to avail themselves of all the Church offers. My wife and I go to separate parishes (Traditional versus Charismatic Catholics), but we both engage in numerous Church activities outside Sunday Mass. She goes to prayer group and healing mass, I go to Opus Dei evenings of recollection, circles, and Catholic doctrine classes. We both attend seminars, my wife through the parish and myself through Opus Dei. I attend daily Mass whenever I can. I engage with Catholics constantly and it is a tremendous experience. We were at a Catholic bookstore on Saturday. It was a pleasure talking with other Catholic shoppers and very nice to hear the bookstore owner say “God bless you” after each transaction. Catholic picnics, Knights of Columbus spaghetti dinners, Eucharistic Adoration, etc., are all wonderful means available to parishioners to expand their outreach to other Catholics, as well to discover and appreciate all our blessed Church offers. Just a thought for consideration.

 

[choctaw]

What was your opinion on this?.

It amazes me that such a short sited mind set is being used by Catholic TV, clergy, and some members. They are ignoring that it was not a political involvement that brought on the abortion issue but Roe V. Wade and the Supreme Court which made it legal in 1973 and all of us have lived with it ever since.

A women or man should take on some responsibility before any pregnant situation happens… Birth control starts before conception, not after. There is a personal choice made to kill the unborn baby by each women before she gets on the table. Politics have nothing to do with it. There will always be mothers who choose to abort, whether in the confines of a hospital, or in a back room butcher shop.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with the Catholic mentality of some in high places and even members, is their acceptance and encouragement of voting for an active practitioner of Mormonism. Which deny the Trinity, baptize the dead, replace our biblical writings with the Book Of Mormon and choose it over scripture. Mormons teach that God somehow was just a human with flesh and bones, then became God, had a wife and they birthed a son Jesus on another planet, OH ! let’s not forget that part they write that Jesus and Satan were brothers. The stuff is totally against our Christian faith.

So if you read the things our faith is saying, it comes down to both presidential parties have flaws. But my view is Satan is on the side of the cult mentality.

 

[estesbob]

Funny, I don’t remember any referendum question on my ballot, giving us a choice to vote “Yes” or “No” on abortion…?

That’s the problem

 

[Swiss_Guy]

It amazes me that such a short sited mind set is being used by Catholic TV, clergy, and some members. They are ignoring that it was not a political involvement that brought on the abortion issue but Roe V. Wade and the Supreme Court which made it legal in 1973 and all of us have lived with it ever since.

A women or man should take on some responsibility before any pregnant situation happens… **Birth control starts before conception, not after. **There is a personal choice made to kill the unborn baby by each women before she gets on the table. Politics have nothing to do with it. There will always be mothers who choose to abort, whether in the confines of a hospital, or in a back room butcher shop.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with the Catholic mentality of some in high places and even members, is their acceptance and encouragement of voting for an active practitioner of Mormonism. Which deny the Trinity, baptize the dead, replace our biblical writings with the Book Of Mormon and choose it over scripture. Mormons teach that God somehow was just a human with flesh and bones, then became God, had a wife and they birthed a son Jesus on another planet, OH ! let’s not forget that part they write that Jesus and Satan were brothers. The stuff is totally against our Christian faith.

So if you read the things our faith is saying, it comes down to both presidential parties have flaws. But my view is Satan is on the side of the cult mentality.

Birth control use is intrinsically evil, fyi.

 

[Trader]

It amazes me that such a short sited mind set is being used by Catholic TV, clergy, and some members. They are ignoring that it was not a political involvement that brought on the abortion issue but Roe V. Wade and the Supreme Court which made it legal in 1973 and all of us have lived with it ever since.

A women or man should take on some responsibility before any pregnant situation happens… Birth control starts before conception, not after. There is a personal choice made to kill the unborn baby by each women before she gets on the table. Politics have nothing to do with it. There will always be mothers who choose to abort, whether in the confines of a hospital, or in a back room butcher shop.

Probably the biggest gripe I have with the Catholic mentality of some in high places and even members, is their acceptance and encouragement of voting for an active practitioner of Mormonism. Which deny the Trinity, baptize the dead, replace our biblical writings with the Book Of Mormon and choose it over scripture. Mormons teach that God somehow was just a human with flesh and bones, then became God, had a wife and they birthed a son Jesus on another planet, OH ! let’s not forget that part they write that Jesus and Satan were brothers. The stuff is totally against our Christian faith.

So if you read the things our faith is saying, it comes down to both presidential parties have flaws. But my view is Satan is on the side of the cult mentality.

This election was between a sincere non-Christian and a sincere anti-Christian. Neither was perfect, but if you examine both the records the candidates and their party platforms the moral stance of the Republican candidate was more in line with the Catholic Church. It was not even close, in my opinion.

 

[SouthCatholic]

Well, that’s the other thing we have to do: Wise up and act like a proper religious organization.

The Catholic church needs to be much harder to get into, warmer and more social and demanding once you’re in, and harder to get out of.

We can resist this, we can argue about this, we can make all kinds of excuses about this, but the sooner we do this, the better of we’ll be. The longer we wait to do this, the worse it will be. It’s just that simple. Pay now or pay later, with interest.

I’m curious about how, in a free society, you go about making the Catholic Church more difficult to get out of?

 

[choctaw]

Birth control use is intrinsically evil, fyi.

Might want to ask yourself about the classes given in the Catholic Church on the Rhythm System which determines ovulation times so women can have the pleasure without having the baby. Call it want you want…it is still birth control. fyi

 

[BroomWagon]

Might want to ask yourself about the classes given in the Catholic Church on the Rhythm System which determines ovulation times so women can have the pleasure without having the baby. Call it want you want…it is still birth control. fyi

Rhythm and nowadays, NFP, Natural Family Planning, it’s on the web, once in awhile I hear it mentioned on Catholic Radio or TV.

 

[BroomWagon]

Might want to ask yourself about the classes given in the Catholic Church on the Rhythm System which determines ovulation times so women can have the pleasure without having the baby. Call it want you want…it is still birth control. fyi

Oh, so Swiss Guy might mean, and I don’t know this for sure, is “Artificial Birth Control.”

If I’ve got it right, would not “Abstinenance” be Birth Control as well?? I would think so but don’t know for certain.

 

[choctaw]

This election was between a sincere non-Christian and a sincere anti-Christian. Neither was perfect, but if you examine both the records the candidates and their party platforms the moral stance of the Republican candidate was more in line with the Catholic Church. It was not even close, in my opinion.

Belief is not always knowledge. Your comments calling people non-Christian and anti-Christian are words that have the same meaning. Saying the stance of the Rep candidate was more in line with Catholic Church would be hard to win a debate using that position.

Catholics do not buy into religions that deny the trinity, they know God was never a human, they don’t baptize dead people, and Catholics use the Bible not the BOM for their answers and faith building.

It was not even close……….The juice the Republicans produced was not worth the squeeze on my Catholic Faith. Satan is tricky, his best weapon is deception and we all would have been deceived putting into office a none Christian.

 

[Jeanne_S]

Might want to ask yourself about the classes given in the Catholic Church on the Rhythm System which determines ovulation times so women can have the pleasure without having the baby. Call it want you want…it is still birth control. fyi

The NPF method is not b/c in the sense you are talking about.,it requires temperance,in that couples abstain during the fertile phase of the woman’s cycle. they are not frustrating the process of procreation through artificial means.Huge difference.

 

[superamazingman]

Perfect. 50% of American self-identified Catholics are following their own religion and just happen to meet up in a Catholic church in their community.

exactly.

 

[Mickey]

Satan is tricky, his best weapon is deception and we all would have been deceived putting into office a non Christian.

Satan is tricky indeed. And many were deceived. The country re-elected a man who is a champion of abortion-on-demand, infanticide, and homosexual “marriage.”

 

[BroomWagon]

Belief is not always knowledge. Your comments calling people non-Christian and anti-Christian are words that have the same meaning. Saying the stance of the Rep candidate was more in line with Catholic Church would be hard to win a debate using that position.

Catholics do not buy into religions that deny the trinity, they know God was never a human, they don’t baptize dead people, and Catholics use the Bible not the BOM for their answers and faith building.

It was not even close……….The juice the Republicans produced was not worth the squeeze on my Catholic Faith. Satan is tricky, his best weapon is deception and we all would have been deceived putting into office a none Christian.

Romney didn’t vote for Infanticide, google Obama and that word if you wonder, Romney is a family man, Romney is a hard worker, Romney has created jobs for people. Romney has given tons of money for charity. Sounds Christian and a lot better than the alternative to me. Romney received the endorsements from Prolife groups, some heavily Catholic, some with Priests in them like Father Pavone. Romney vowed to defund the nation’s number one abortion provider Planned Parenthood.

Some and probably a very small minority of Protestants might list some of the things you say, They might be able to come up with some sort of reasoning against the Catholic Faith as well. And in fact, a number of other faiths and denominations.

No, my candidate wasn’t perfect, the perfect candidate doesn’t come along that often, let alone be electable.

 

[iloveangels]

Catholics have to avail themselves of all the Church offers. My wife and I go to separate parishes (Traditional versus Charismatic Catholics), but we both engage in numerous Church activities outside Sunday Mass. She goes to prayer group and healing mass, I go to Opus Dei evenings of recollection, circles, and Catholic doctrine classes. We both attend seminars, my wife through the parish and myself through Opus Dei. I attend daily Mass whenever I can. I engage with Catholics constantly and it is a tremendous experience. We were at a Catholic bookstore on Saturday. It was a pleasure talking with other Catholic shoppers and very nice to hear the bookstore owner say “God bless you” after each transaction. Catholic picnics, Knights of Columbus spaghetti dinners, Eucharistic Adoration, etc., are all wonderful means available to parishioners to expand their outreach to other Catholics, as well to discover and appreciate all our blessed Church offers. Just a thought for consideration.

Dave, you live in a major metropolitan area. That’s not true for most of the country.

 

[iloveangels]

I’m curious about how, in a free society, you go about making the Catholic Church more difficult to get out of?

If the church were warmer and more social inside and there were clearer goals for things, it would become more likely that people will stay. If they chose to leave, they would have to leave people and routines behind, and that’s hard for many people.

Think Amish. How many people leave Amish communities? Almost no-one. It’s almost unthinkable for them, and the Amish are a very peaceful people. But their whole lives are there. This is actually how it was in the early Church and for many centuries thereafter.

Right now the church is sort of an afterthought for many people, something you show up to on Sundays when you’re not too busy. IT’s considered kind of optional by many people–like a hobby or “lifestyle choice”—including many Catholics. Only about 20% of catholics actually attend mass weekly.

 

[superamazingman]

If the church were warmer and more social inside and there were clearer goals for things, it would become more likely that people will stay. If they chose to leave, they would have to leave people and routines behind, and that’s hard for many people.

Think Amish. How many people leave Amish communities? Almost no-one. It’s almost unthinkable for them, and the Amish are a very peaceful people. But their whole lives are there. This is actually how it was in the early Church and for many centuries thereafter.

Right now the church is sort of an afterthought for many people, something you show up to on Sundays when you’re not too busy. IT’s considered kind of optional by many people–like a hobby or “lifestyle choice”—including many Catholics. Only about 20% of catholics actually attend mass weekly.

Very true. It must be a community and a lifestyle, not just something you do once a week… if you feel like it.

 

[iloveangels]

Very true. It must be a community and a lifestyle, not just something you do once a week… if you feel like it.

Yes, and if that happens to Catholics in this country it will be a major, major change. This is NOT how the Church in the United States is operating. Yes, there are a few pockets that are closer to this than others, but in general, no. What we currently have for most Cathlics is nothing like a community atmosphere where people know each other and have things to participate in and work on together on a daily basis.

Catholics now expect that the Church is only going to ask for 45 minutes once a week, and 80% of them don’t bother to show up for that. Why? Because they know that they can do that and no one will even notice, let alone say anything. A lot of them believe that they can be a Catholic without even having any contact with the Church whatsoever on a regular basis.

 

[Trader]

Belief is not always knowledge. Your comments calling people non-Christian and anti-Christian are words that have the same meaning. Saying the stance of the Rep candidate was more in line with Catholic Church would be hard to win a debate using that position.

Catholics do not buy into religions that deny the trinity, they know God was never a human, they don’t baptize dead people, and Catholics use the Bible not the BOM for their answers and faith building.

It was not even close……….The juice the Republicans produced was not worth the squeeze on my Catholic Faith. Satan is tricky, his best weapon is deception and we all would have been deceived putting into office a none Christian.

It is pretty clear that we both believe that Mormons are not Christians. They are not Trinitarian or even monotheistic, but theology was not on the ballot. Only one candidate has tried to force Catholics and other Chistians to act against their faith. It was the Obama administration that tried in both HHS and the EEOC to define for a religious institution who their ministers were, and argued before the Supreme Court that churches should be treated the same as anyone else. They acted like the first amendment to the Constitution never existed. Obama was the anti-Christian candidate, even if he claims allegiance to some form of Christianity.