Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

[fix]

There’s modesty, and there’s shame. I think there can be a slim margin between the two. Modesty is good. Being fearful, especially about one’s body, can lead to problems.

How is this relevant to the conversation?

 

[fix]

Have the bishops said that the showering and bathrooms must be separate or even recommended it? If so I must have missed it.

Do you think the bishops are going to address it? I doubt it. They gave a general statement with no specifics. Do we need our bishops to point out the obvious?

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

Sorry. It does bring up an interesting point. If one is going to stay, then all the more reason one needs to be grounded in truth. I think the worse an organization is, the more one needs fortitude and grace. But heck, if the enemy can pull this stunt in traditionally moral organizations, surely the grace we have available will sustain us.

You really shouldn’t ascribe malice when it’s indubitably ignorance.

 

[fix]

Sorry. It does bring up an interesting point. If one is going to stay, then all the more reason one needs to be grounded in truth. I think the worse an organization is, the more one needs fortitude and grace. But heck, if the enemy can pull this stunt in traditionally moral organizations, surely the grace we have available will sustain us.

I think there is merit to your position but, again, my real point is to show the the fallacy of many of the arguments made here. Those that promote this change in policy never defend it when it comes to specifics.

 

[Momofmyangels]

There’s modesty, and there’s shame. I think there can be a slim margin between the two. Modesty is good. Being fearful, especially about one’s body, can lead to problems.

Who teaches their child to be fearful or ashamed of their own body??? Modesty does not encompass fear and shame.

 

[Momofmyangels]

Some parents think that their daughter must wear an ankle length skirt or that their daughter is dressing like a harlot.

Thay works for swimming and baths, but not showers

And, it is not “right” to wear ankle length skirts or request that your daughter add a little clothing so that she does not look like a “harlot”? These requests are wrong for a parent to make?

 

[NeedImprovement]

These are great posts. .

They cut through all the frivolous bilge and keep riveted on the issue –** the safety and well-being of children and the parents’ sacred right to ensure the well-being and safety of their children.**

A “gay man in a relationship” has already proven he does not have the needed qualifications to be a scout leader. His chosen lifestyle is contrary to the morally straight code of conduct that used to be held in high regard with the scouts. Furthermore, exposing children to this lifestyle and pretending that it is ok is wrong. So, yes, it would be better for the program to fold, than to subject children to an immoral lifestyle.

I think everyone agrees with this thought. However, exposing children to immorality should not be part of the package.

How true that *exposing children to immorality should not be part of the package *. Yet this is precisely what the gay activists and homosexual lobby – with the help of our politicians are presently carrying out in schools today – committing child menticide : indoctrinating young children (as young as 4 and 5 years old) with the homosexual agenda years before they even go through puberty – and this , without parental consent . . . i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk157/dyedinthewool/Smilies/nuts.gif

 

[pnewton]

You really shouldn’t ascribe malice when it’s indubitably ignorance.

Perhaps I should have capitalized The Enemy, as in the one who is behind the sexualization and ultimate destruction of our society. This scouting issue is but one front in the war of making all sexual activity acceptable and the idea of sin obsolete. For adults, then young adults, it was, “if it feels good, do it.” Now for children, the message is that you can’t help how you are so just go with it. It’s all “perfectly normal.”

 

[Dawnia]

Announcement from the Chairman of the NCCS

 

[Momofmyangels]

Apparently the “new” normal is pretend there is no problem.

I don’t think that is going to cut it when, one day we have to account for how we raised our children and what we subjected them to.

 

[on_the_hill]

Who teaches their child to be fearful or ashamed of their own body??? Modesty does not encompass fear and shame.

I think some parents probably do, whether or not they intend to. I agree with you about modesty, but maintain that it’s possible to fall into shamefulness.

[Just as an aside, when I was very young and we went to swimming pools, my dad would always stand me on the locker room bench to dry off so my feet wouldn’t get wet on the floor. I hated doing that. Not because I was standing naked on a bench, but because I felt like a dope because no one else stood on the bench. Flash forward 40 years, and my son *chooses to stand on the bench so his feet don’t get wet, the heck what anyone else thinks. ]

 

[markomalley]

Not any phrase, the term is **sexual orientation **- that’s the term we’re referring to explicitly in this instance.

The excerpt was meant to make that point clearly:

Curious, though, that the CDF uses the term:

**Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons – Homosexualitatis problema **(1986)

For example:

The human person, made in the image and likeness of God, can hardly be adequately described by a reductionist reference to his or her sexual orientation. Every one living on the face of the earth has personal problems and difficulties, but challenges to growth, strengths, talents and gifts as well. Today, the Church provides a badly needed context for the care of the human person when she refuses to consider the person as a “heterosexual” or a “homosexual” and insists that every person has a fundamental Identity: the creature of God, and by grace, his child and heir to eternal life.
There are other uses of the term in that document, as well.

Some considerations concerning the response to legislative proposals on the non-discrimination of homosexual persons (1992)

1. There are areas in which it is not unjust discrimination to take **sexual orientation **into account, for example, in the placement of children for adoption or foster care, in employment of teachers or athletic coaches, and in military recruitment.
   Just as an FYI.

 

[on_the_hill]

And gay affirmative glasses.

I’d rather light a candle than curse the darkness.

 

[on_the_hill]

Same Sex Attraction Disorder

Are you sure you want to append Disorder to SSA? People with disorders get preferential treatment, may benefit from the Americans with Disabilities Act, etc.

If SSA becomes a disorder (like OCD, ADD, ODD, etc.) then Be Prepared for the federal and state governments to provide benefits.

 

[Momofmyangels]

I think some parents probably do, whether or not they intend to. I agree with you about modesty, but maintain that it’s possible to fall into shamefulness. ]

Yes, it is possible. Parenting requires a delicate balance with many, many issues. That is why, rather than give up because the adverse possibilities are present, we pray for the graces to be good parents.

 

[Sonic]

On the one hand, most of this thread is hypothetical.

As you can tell, I don’t like hypothetical.

On the other hand, the scenario I described isn’t hypothetical. Those were real situations in a real Boy Scout Troop. The adult leaders of the troop were incompetent and barely held their own lives together. Thus the question recurs: If a man had stepped forward who had all the needed qualifications but was gay, should he have been rejected out-of-hand?

If it were up to me, I’m not entirely sure I would have rejected a man solely on his sexual orientation if he otherwise had all of the needed qualifications. Would it have been ideal? No, in my opinion it would not have been ideal. Would I want my son belonging to a troop where the leader is a gay man in a relationship? No, I would not be comfortable with that. But when straight men are unable or unwilling to provide the leadership, is it better for the program to fold?

I’m very sorry to have heard of such a situation in the BSA.The troop should have been reported and disbanded (if it actually happened).

Since it is a hypothetical question, let’s remove the word gay and insert someone else.

If a man walked in and had the talent and ability to save those kids, would it have mattered if he were [Al Capone]?

If a man walked in and had the talent and ability to save those kids, would it have mattered if he were [Michael Jackson]?

The logic should hold true in other situations, right? Capone gave to charities, and Jackson just wanted to help the little children, right?

 

[Sonic]

I’d rather light a candle than curse the darkness.

While you were lighting candles, Fix discovered electricity and invented the light bulb.

 

[fix]

I’d rather light a candle than curse the darkness.

The candle should help others to see the truth not relativize it or minimize it.

 

[on_the_hill]

As you can tell, I don’t like hypothetical.

I’m very sorry to have heard of such a situation in the BSA.The troop should have been reported and disbanded (if it actually happened).

Indeed, it did happen. I was a member of that troop from ages 11 to 18. I think I was the last member before it folded.

Since it is a hypothetical question, let’s remove the word gay and insert someone else.

If a man walked in and had the talent and ability to save those kids, would it have mattered if he were [Al Capone]?

If a man walked in and had the talent and ability to save those kids, would it have mattered if he were [Michael Jackson]?

The logic should hold true in other situations, right? Capone gave to charities, and Jackson just wanted to help the little children, right?

Well, that’s getting a little silly. Al Capone? You’d have been closer with Jeffery Dahmer. At least he was gay. And Jackson, although he slipped away from the accusations, was clearly a special case.

 

[on_the_hill]

On a whim I just googled to see if there’s any info on my old troop. Of course not. The council we were in no longer exists, the council our council merged in to no longer exists but merged into a third council. Oy.