Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

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So anger (rape?)…
More like anger at society, rules, religion, parents. The sort of anger or hatred that’s connected with rebellion. There are some people who think they are revolutionaries breaking down social and sexual taboos.

I know of a case where a young woman decided she was going to participate in that kind of sex because she hated the people in her small hometown and the traditional values the people there adhered to. She wanted to break every sexual rule because she associated it with freedom.
 
More like anger at society, rules, religion, parents. The sort of anger or hatred that’s connected with rebellion. There are some people who think they are revolutionaries breaking down social and sexual taboos.

I know of a case where a young woman decided she was going to participate in that kind of sex because she hated the people in her small hometown and the traditional values the people there adhered to. She wanted to break every sexual rule because she associated it with freedom.
Wow, that’s pretty angsty.
 
You are aware that both English and American law uses the terms “penis” and “penetrate” right?
This is a Christian website, not the penal code. Surely you can understand that the media dictates propriety. It is enough dealing with challenges to Christian morality without having to be offended by graphic language.
 
NeedImprovement;10826865:
. . .
For anyone who hasn’t done the homework , *anima muliebris in corpore virili inclusa *
is the unChristian theory of a woman’s soul being trapped in a man’s body .
This is , in all truth, an insult to God.

At the moment of conception, it is God who gives the soul – the man and the woman are co-creators with God at conception. So the presupposition of anima muliebris in corpore virili inclusa is that God the Creator made the mistake - He put the wrong soul with the wrong body.

Actually that is a quote which was used to define what/why a homosexual was and which I personally heavily disagree with.
Yet here is how you choose to define it:
. . . homosexuality isn’t an action, it is the state of being attracted (exclusively) to the same sex. . . .
. . . Not too many takers on that one.

You obviously can’t be aware that this particular, definition, suggests impending action ? A “state of being attracted” implies an *“evolutionary state *”. Furthermore that particular definition confuses the issue – a confusion easily averted when we use Fr. John Hardon’s recommended approach in differentiating the 3 levels of homosexuality– (as already posted) :homosexual attraction, homosexual tendency and active homosexuality. With sexual promiscuity being the hallmark of homosexuality , I don’t see how we can even begin to take your definition seriously. It doesn’t even define , it scrambles. Neither do I ever ever recall hearing it said before, that homosexuality is only a *static state of mind *.
 
NeedImprovement;10826865:
Pungently offensive, and apparently not only to me : . . .
You are aware that both English and American law uses the terms “penis” and “penetrate” right?
I’m aware of a few things besides.

On this particular point I’m aware that a person with an average or above average vocabulary and intellect, is quite capable of presenting certain information without the need for becoming crass or overly graphic.

But what appeared more offensive to me was how someone could mention rape several times over now , but never consider the *child menticide * being committed by the entire homosexual lobby. Menticide is also referred to as mind rape.

Your posts would appear to have been tending to focus more on the bodily.

Precious little is actually being said about children’s souls here. Perhaps it’s time. I’ll be happy to provide a small sample after replying to your next response quoted below :
NeedImprovement;10826865:
. . . BTW , it is
*child abuse *- abuse of the worst kind : part of an expansive child abuse which the gay lobby is committing , with the assistance of sometimes unwitting abettors.
Not legally
“Not legally” is also the victory cry of the gay militants after they intimidate people into changing laws (hello BSA) to make homosexuals more equal than the rest of us.

Abortion is considered “legal” in my country; since they not only changed the laws, but completely removed them.

To recap briefly, you said, “This also isn’t child abuse” , when I insisted that what the homosexual militants are doing “is *child abuse *- abuse of the worst kind : part of an expansive child abuse which the gay lobby is committing , with the assistance of sometimes unwitting abettors”, you replied,” not legally”.

Put fancy “legal”/”not legal” tags on things if you wish , (and this, it would appear, when convenient) but it will never change any moral absolutes. Abortion may be “legal” in my country and in New York and in China, but in God’s eyes and in the eyes of His Church it is killing of the innocent and the helpless.

Child abuse , as far as I know, in the western world ,* has never been” legal”*. You thus essentially provide another non-argument and avert the issue. Rather, using the wrong words ,you convey a mistaken impression - implying that what the homosexual militants/gay activists are currently doing to children is acceptable and does not constitute child abuse. Experts in the detection of sophistry would call that literary operation , equivocation.
 
To my brothers and sisters at Catholic Answers :

Specifically, here, I begin by looking at the current ongoing indoctrination of young children in schools (as young as 5 years old) with the homosexual agenda ; because the infiltration of BSA becomes a logical extension of that same initiative.

Just because the homosexual lobby is getting away with it, doesn’t make it legal .

Actually, whatever distortions they may try and justify with their so-called “gay rights” , pure law says for the sake of practicality, these rights may extend to the individual only inasmuch as they do not quash or abrogate the rights of other individuals.

But despite this truth, we see how the militant gay lobby wield their (ahem) “* rights”* consistently - effectively abrogating parents’ rights.

Parents’ rights are sacred and a well balanced view of human rights will tell you nothing should abrogate parents rights , yet, as we continue to see , the homosexual lobby , thanks to the help of their judiciary and governmental accomplices, grant themselves more authority than a child’s parents themselves. In a democracy, this should never have been so.

How then can it be so ?

It is because above all, the actual war that is being waged here by the homosexual activists against the family and society is, by its very nature, psychological warfare. In this war, words are the weapons.

Far too many times on these threads, we see these gay activists and their supporters claim that “homosexuals are not pedophiles” or “homosexuals are not child molesters.”

I would beg to differ. I believe the one glaring gargantuan exception to that claim, which precludes any doubt whatsoever, has to be every member of the homosexual activists/gay lobby – that is specifically, every single person involved in the current indoctrination of children with the homosexual agenda.

Being a sinner of considerable magnitude myself, I have a fair idea of what I shall have to answer for at the end of my earthly life .

To those who do the unconscionable - who indoctrinate the children of others with the homosexual agenda – you also should consider what you shall have to answer for – for what you have done in this life. I another sinner, though not of the same nature, see you as child molesters.

My reasoning is thus:
God, who wants us all to make it to Heaven told us , “Thou shalt not kill.” He also told us [Matt 5:21-22] “You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.” The meaning is clear that all between these two points is to be avoided too . . . such as punching or kicking your brother, slapping bruising, etc”.

But the One who says, “Thou shalt not kill” , means not only thou shalt not kill the body , but even more profoundly, **“Thou shalt not kill the soul”. **

When considering what the homosexual lobby and accomplices are doing to the children’s souls in schools , it isn’t even necessary to consider the other relevant Commandments ( though much of the others are equally applicable :Thou shalt not bear false witness – *“Homosexuality is good , it is healthy, it is normal”. *. . Thou shalt not commit lewd acts “or encourage others to commit them” . . . Honor your father and mother “Honor their father and mother too” we could go on).

Reduced to its simplest terms , what a pedophile wants to do to a child’s body corresponds precisely to what the homosexual activists are already doing to children’s souls in schools and by extension now, in scouting.

These are child molesters of the worst degree because they molest the souls of other peoples’ children with their lies and perversions. It is additionally killing of the soul in the sense that they poison innocent minds – against the will of most parents.

What does that make them, if not **government sanctioned child molesters **?

🤷
 
Why the hell would a male engage in sex with another male unless there was no other sexual outlets such as in prison, money or they were sexually attracted to males?
Why would anyone rape another when their are plenty of others who would willingly comply? Power, hate, entitlement, just plain crazy…the list goes on.

Years ago I heard a guy talk about how he had been a male prostitute in New York. He made his living on his knees in the men’s bathroom in the financial district. Apparently it was common for men to picture their bosses/clients/co-workers being humiliated in such a way. 🤷
Please do not assume that a parent is teaching a child to “irrationally fear” when they are protecting their child from harm. It is the parent’s duty to protect their children. No one is going to do it for them in such a manner that will equal the protection offered by a parent.
👍
 
MODERATOR NOTICE

This thread is wandering. Please return to the topic of the original post
 
During the past 7 years Wilderness Outreach has engaged more than 250 Catholic men and has built and cleared over 70 miles of trails in the American wilderness. These men built the Altars of Sacrifice where they celebrated daily Mass, followed the prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours and practiced the discipline of silence and solitude. These men read, thought and debated about the theology of masculine spirituality and helped build its foundation. As a result the mission of Wilderness Outreach has grown into one that challenges priests, seminarians and laymen to discover, embrace and develop their God given manhood, and from there discover their calling, mission and duty.
I believe the Holy Spirit has been calling Wilderness Outreach to engage manhood on deeper and more fundamental levels: That of the work of mentoring boys into authentic Roman Catholic manhood. Through the past several years we have been engaging young men with fathers and sons, and parish groups with directors of religious education. These have gone well and have left the men and boys wanting more. I believe it is time to formally develop the structure of the Wilderness Rangers as an holistic and organic extension of Wilderness Outreach.
If you are interested in learning more about Wilderness Outreach and Wilderness Rangers go to www.wildernessoutreach.net or to the Wilderness Outreach Facebook page.
 
During the past 7 years Wilderness Outreach has engaged more than 250 Catholic men and has built and cleared over 70 miles of trails in the American wilderness. These men built the Altars of Sacrifice where they celebrated daily Mass, followed the prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours and practiced the discipline of silence and solitude. These men read, thought and debated about the theology of masculine spirituality and helped build its foundation. As a result the mission of Wilderness Outreach has grown into one that challenges priests, seminarians and laymen to discover, embrace and develop their God given manhood, and from there discover their calling, mission and duty.
I believe the Holy Spirit has been calling Wilderness Outreach to engage manhood on deeper and more fundamental levels: That of the work of mentoring boys into authentic Roman Catholic manhood. Through the past several years we have been engaging young men with fathers and sons, and parish groups with directors of religious education. These have gone well and have left the men and boys wanting more. I believe it is time to formally develop the structure of the Wilderness Rangers as an holistic and organic extension of Wilderness Outreach.
If you are interested in learning more about Wilderness Outreach and Wilderness Rangers go to www.wildernessoutreach.net or to the Wilderness Outreach Facebook page.
This is a good post, I note reading another forum and some Assemblies of God members were discussing this, it seems they have a program called “Royal Rangers.” You probably already knew this.
 
To my brothers and sisters at Catholic Answers :

Specifically, here, I begin by looking at the current ongoing indoctrination of young children in schools (as young as 5 years old) with the homosexual agenda ; because the infiltration of BSA becomes a logical extension of that same initiative.

Just because the homosexual lobby is getting away with it, doesn’t make it legal .

Actually, whatever distortions they may try and justify with their so-called “gay rights” , pure law says for the sake of practicality, these rights may extend to the individual only inasmuch as they do not quash or abrogate the rights of other individuals.

But despite this truth, we see how the militant gay lobby wield their (ahem) “* rights”* consistently - effectively abrogating parents’ rights.

Parents’ rights are sacred and a well balanced view of human rights will tell you nothing should abrogate parents rights , yet, as we continue to see , the homosexual lobby , thanks to the help of their judiciary and governmental accomplices, grant themselves more authority than a child’s parents themselves. In a democracy, this should never have been so.

How then can it be so ?

It is because above all, the actual war that is being waged here by the homosexual activists against the family and society is, by its very nature, psychological warfare. In this war, words are the weapons.

Far too many times on these threads, we see these gay activists and their supporters claim that “homosexuals are not pedophiles” or “homosexuals are not child molesters.”

I would beg to differ. I believe the one glaring gargantuan exception to that claim, which precludes any doubt whatsoever, has to be every member of the homosexual activists/gay lobby – that is specifically, every single person involved in the current indoctrination of children with the homosexual agenda.

Being a sinner of considerable magnitude myself, I have a fair idea of what I shall have to answer for at the end of my earthly life .

To those who do the unconscionable - who indoctrinate the children of others with the homosexual agenda – you also should consider what you shall have to answer for – for what you have done in this life. I another sinner, though not of the same nature, see you as child molesters.

My reasoning is thus:
God, who wants us all to make it to Heaven told us , “Thou shalt not kill.” He also told us [Matt 5:21-22] “You have heard that it was said to your ancestors, ‘You shall not kill; and whoever kills will be liable to judgment.’ But I say to you, whoever is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment.” The meaning is clear that all between these two points is to be avoided too . . . such as punching or kicking your brother, slapping bruising, etc”.

But the One who says, “Thou shalt not kill” , means not only thou shalt not kill the body , but even more profoundly, **“Thou shalt not kill the soul”. **

When considering what the homosexual lobby and accomplices are doing to the children’s souls in schools , it isn’t even necessary to consider the other relevant Commandments ( though much of the others are equally applicable :Thou shalt not bear false witness – *“Homosexuality is good , it is healthy, it is normal”. *. . Thou shalt not commit lewd acts “or encourage others to commit them” . . . Honor your father and mother “Honor their father and mother too” we could go on).

Reduced to its simplest terms , what a pedophile wants to do to a child’s body corresponds precisely to what the homosexual activists are already doing to children’s souls in schools and by extension now, in scouting.

These are child molesters of the worst degree because they molest the souls of other peoples’ children with their lies and perversions. It is additionally killing of the soul in the sense that they poison innocent minds – against the will of most parents.

What does that make them, if not **government sanctioned child molesters **?

🤷
Psychological warfare. Replace that with: inclusive, diversity and tolerance. But in this case, it’s all a one-way street. Kids are definitely being indoctrinated in public schools as well.

amazon.com/King-Linda-Haan/dp/1582460612

A queen tries to find her son a bride, instead the prince picks a man.

amazon.com/Daddy-Papa-Me-Lesl%C3%A9a-Newman/dp/1582462623

Same-sex parents.

amazon.com/Mommy-Mama-Me-Lesl%C3%A9a-Newman/dp/1582462631

Peace,
Ed
 
Scouting seeks to develop good habits and moral uprightness in boys and girls, but without Christ. A scout must believe in some god, but scouting cannot tolerate belief in Jesus Christ alone as the only basis for a really righteous life. Scouting may teach a boy or a girl how to become a useful, helpful, morally straight citizen; in the process, however, it may also develop in that boy or girl a crusted coat of self-righteousness, which protests, “I need no Savior.” Then “what good is it for a man to gain the whole world, yet forfeit his soul?” The last state of the man will be worse than the first.
“We maintain,” said one-time synod president, John Brenner, “that the scout program still contains elements of religion, that it perverts the teachings of Holy Scriptures; and that, therefore, the Scriptures bid us to avoid it.” President Brenner said that in 1945. We must still say that in 1986. That’s where we still stand.
 
I sure hope you reconsider. You encourage the rest of us who speak on behalf of the truth in order to refute those who aim to obscure it. You provide a heartbeat to the debate when you bring your mother’s perspective to it . We do not benefit from a mother’s perspective nearly enough on this topic and on what the gay militants are doing to children in general. Mothers are central to this issue. Mothers are also, according to Cardinal Joseph Mindsenty’s *Tribute to Mothers *,

In participating, you keep the most pertinent question at the fore. The question is implied in some other fine posts on the thread by some of our members ; for example

The question has slight variations but is based on this assertion :

“Who are you to try and tell me what is best, what is most wholesome for my child ?” , or , “Who are you to take away my sacred right to ensure the well-being of my own child, and to let you do what you want with my child instead ?” While they avoid this direct confrontation like the plague, they get away with it anyway by lying sneaking and intimidating their way there - all of the time denying it and trying to call it something else.

All too unfortunately , Judas is alive and well - as is Pilate.

Pilate and Judas are both alive in the politician and the judge who, for the sake of job security betray the trust conferred on them by parents, and who simply fit the coward mold too perfectly to be able to to say “no” to the gay agenda. These so-called “representatives” were elected to ensure the safety of peoples’ children in society. Instead, out of fear , they bow down to a perverted god even if it means offering every single one of other peoples’ children as a sacrificial lamb to the god of homosexuality - to the ultimate goal of the homosexual agenda. And that should be an indicator to everyone just how depraved, how evil their agenda is.

Judas is also alive in those voting members of BSA. The voting members of BSA also have betrayed the trust that parents conferred on them to ensure the well-being of their children.

We should’ve been wise enough by now to see it coming. Seeing as it’s basically the same modus operandi :

debate → vote → legislation.

The homosexual activists/lobby, will not tolerate anything which either says or implies the truth that active homosexuality is wrong- or not normal, or immoral. As one author put it , they will tolerate no opinion other than their own.
That appears to be the case. Get the gay lobbyists to the politicians and confuse them and the public.

Peace,
Ed
 
During the past 7 years Wilderness Outreach has engaged more than 250 Catholic men and has built and cleared over 70 miles of trails in the American wilderness. These men built the Altars of Sacrifice where they celebrated daily Mass, followed the prayer of the Liturgy of the Hours and practiced the discipline of silence and solitude. These men read, thought and debated about the theology of masculine spirituality and helped build its foundation. As a result the mission of Wilderness Outreach has grown into one that challenges priests, seminarians and laymen to discover, embrace and develop their God given manhood, and from there discover their calling, mission and duty.
I believe the Holy Spirit has been calling Wilderness Outreach to engage manhood on deeper and more fundamental levels: That of the work of mentoring boys into authentic Roman Catholic manhood. Through the past several years we have been engaging young men with fathers and sons, and parish groups with directors of religious education. These have gone well and have left the men and boys wanting more. I believe it is time to formally develop the structure of the Wilderness Rangers as an holistic and organic extension of Wilderness Outreach.
If you are interested in learning more about Wilderness Outreach and Wilderness Rangers go to www.wildernessoutreach.net or to the Wilderness Outreach Facebook page.
Thanks for the link.
 
Jun 4, '13 6:00 am
The US Catholic church’s top liaison to the Boy Scouts of America is telling Catholic Scout leaders and troop sponsors that the BSA’s new policy welcoming gay Scouts “is not in conflict with Catholic teaching” and they should continue to support scouting programs, reports NCR.http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/cathnews/RSS/~4/Gn7T717SfaI

More…
I’ve been thinking about this for a while now and I’ve come to the conclusion that there are two principal ways that us Catholics are approaching what has happened here: a corporate approach and an individual approach.

From the corporate perspective (which seems to me the perspective of the NCCS and the bishops), we look at the whole. We have half a million Catholic boys in BSA. Even if the bishops and NCCS said we had to cut ties completely, they know that not every single one of them will leave scouting. A significant number of Catholics would still be there. And by cutting ties, they would leave those Catholic youth in that program with no religious guidance whatsoever. This seems unnecessary in light of the fact that the new policy as it is written does not contradict Catholic teaching.

From the individual perspective (which seems to me the perspective of many concerned parents and others), we look at what it means for us personally or the people we know. If we have sons at the threshhold of the scouting program and we’re looking at the potential of investing countless hours and dollars into the program over the next 10 years, it is quite legitimate to attempt to read the “writing on the wall” and be reticent about making such an investment in light of an uncertain future. From this persepctive, leaving now – even if things aren’t immediately in conflict with our faith – is quite reasonable as we don’t want to have to shift gears later on after we are even more invested in the program.

I placed the bishops into the “corporate perspective” category, but I know they are also aware of the individual perspective and I’m sure that factors into everything for them as well. They tend to do their best to try to be all things to all people.

I can understand and sympathize with both views. I am concerned that a mass exodus of strong Catholics and Christians from Scouting will only hasten and make more certain any future changes in policy – basically making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that things will get worse. Then, those who left will then be able to say “I’m glad we left when we did”, even though by staying perhaps things could have turned out differently. But I can’t say I don’t understand why they’d want to leave and leave sooner rather than later.

In the coming months, the BSA will be fleshing out the application of this policy change. I’m inclined to want to wait and see what they come up with and to see the NCCS response before making any decisions. Perhaps safeguards will be put in place that will make it more clear going forward that Catholics will be able to be Catholics in the program.
 
I can understand and sympathize with both views. I am concerned that a mass exodus of strong Catholics and Christians from Scouting will only hasten and make more certain any future changes in policy – basically making it a self-fulfilling prophecy that things will get worse. Then, those who left will then be able to say “I’m glad we left when we did”, even though by staying perhaps things could have turned out differently. But I can’t say I don’t understand why they’d want to leave and leave sooner rather than later.

In the coming months, the BSA will be fleshing out the application of this policy change. I’m inclined to want to wait and see what they come up with and to see the NCCS response before making any decisions. Perhaps safeguards will be put in place that will make it more clear going forward that Catholics will be able to be Catholics in the program.
And then again, if there was not a strong reaction to the new resolution, then perhaps the BSA would not put as much effort into “fleshing out the application of this policy change” in order that they may remain faithful to their code of morals. Our pastor met with Scout leaders and parents and told them that he realizes that many good Catholics may disagree with his decision and that it was ok for them to join another troop. One may disagree with my pastor’s decision, but there is so much hate directed at our pastor from outside the parish due to biased reporting and vicious gossip that twists the truth. The least that we can do is support our faithful priests in following their own conscience in this matter.
 
And then again, if there was not a strong reaction to the new resolution, then perhaps the BSA would not put as much effort into “fleshing out the application of this policy change” in order that they may remain faithful to their code of morals. Our pastor met with Scout leaders and parents and told them that he realizes that many good Catholics may disagree with his decision and that it was ok for them to join another troop. One may disagree with my pastor’s decision, but there is so much hate directed at our pastor from outside the parish due to biased reporting and vicious gossip that twists the truth. The least that we can do is support our faithful priests in following their own conscience in this matter.
Good point. Absolutely, we want to support our priests.

Our priests are frequently placed in situations where whatever they choose, they will be criticized for it. It’s a tough gig.
 
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