Bishop responds to Boy Scouts' decision on admission of homosexual members [CWN]

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Tigg said:
Without any attempt to address the very valid concern that it creates a vulnerability that could place boys in the near occasion of grave sin??
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I don’t see it as a near occasion to grave sin just because we know Johnny has SSA. In fact just the opposite. We will tend to keep our eyes out for his behavior. The policy doesn’t allow for sexual behavior or disruptive behavior.

The situation may be better than previously. Youth who are known to have SSA know they are being watched and will probably behave better than those in the closet. Today, a boy who wants sex with another boy in the Scouts can use the threat that “if you tell on me we both will be kicked out.”
 
gilliam said:
I can’t speak for them. I do know that the new policy is in line with Catholic teaching and that is what they are saying.
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I don’t think this is quite so. They are all expressing a “wait and see” attitude insofar as they are expressing anything at all. And that might be prudent, though “Wait and see” didn’t serve too well back when it was widely believed that pedophilia could be “cured” by psychotherapy.

I do agree with the statement that parents should guard their children against immorality, and therefore I believe that subjecting one’s children to an organization that approves overt homosexuality as a matter of policy would be a failure of that duty.
 
buffalo said:
Now I am really confused. Catholic bishops are now on board with sexual orientation?

Boy Scouts of America - Bishop Malone statement
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As always, Boy Scouts units affiliated with Catholic Church organizations are expected to be faithful to and uphold Catholic teaching. Inherent in that is chastity, to which all Catholics are called. Sexual expression outside of marriage is contrary to the virtue of chastity. Employees and volunteers representing Catholic organizations are expected to uphold that teaching, while carrying themselves with high ethical standards that promote a deep appreciation for service to others in their communities.
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There is nothing confusing for me. All things are done slowly, in step fashion. The Church accepts the BSA statement and is consistent with Church teaching however points to expectations…

Uphold Catholic teaching…
Chastity
Sexual Expression outside of marriage contrary to chastity
All must uphold this teaching…setting the stage for “gay leaders”

The gauntlet has been drawn for those that plan to violate Church teaching…
 
gilliam said:
I don’t see it as a near occasion to grave sin just because we know Johnny has SSA. In fact just the opposite. We will tend to keep our eyes out for his behavior. The policy doesn’t allow for sexual behavior or disruptive behavior.
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The policy cannot stop human nature and what may happen in a tent until after the fact and does nothing to address the moral dimension which the bishop should be doing. All the boys will be exposed to potential harm - and the greater probably for the one with SSA.
 
gilliam said:
I don’t see it as a near occasion to grave sin just because we know Johnny has SSA. In fact just the opposite. We will tend to keep our eyes out for his behavior. The policy doesn’t allow for sexual behavior or disruptive behavior.

The situation may be better than previously. Youth who are known to have SSA know they are being watched and will probably behave better than those in the closet. Today, a boy who wants sex with another boy in the Scouts can use the threat that “if you tell on me we both will be kicked out.”
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As I’ve said before, I am far less concerned about confused youth who believe they are sexually attracted to meekness of the same sex as i am consented about adults pushing an agenda.

From what I gather, your position is that little has changed, other than the fact that a child will not be automatically kicked out if he discloses his perceived preference.

What are three indicators to tell you that it is time to leave?

Homosexual leaders?

Mandatory downward-directed sensitivity training that presents homosexuality as equivalent to heterosexuality?

A “diversity” merit badge?

Or what?

Just curious…
 
signit said:
(jumping back in)

Agreed, and not only that, as I’ve always said, 'the punishment should fit the crime."

This seems like a really stiff punishment for a boy, to kick him out for life and deprive him of a positive experience and deprive others of his contributions. For a 12-year-old, and for something that’s not his fault. I wonder if we’d do the same thing to a boy that gets caught sneaking beer into the tent.

And I agree, a lot of the arguments remind me of the 1950s segregation arguments: “We don’t really hate black Americans; we just don’t want to associate with them!”

Edit: Was disagreeing with the original BSA policy, not totally disagreeing with forming alternative or Catholic groups.
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The original BSA policy did not allow any sort of inquiry into orientation. It became a problem if and only if the boy promoted his orientation.

As for the comparison to race, I am offended by it, and the Vatican has rejected it.
 
African Americans have been among the most fervent supports of Traditional Marriage. Tells you something.
 
gilliam said:
I can’t speak for them. I do know that the new policy is in line with Catholic teaching and that is what they are saying.
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You have posted the words of the bishop who speaks on this issue many times. He said he can “live with the new policy”. That is not a glowing endorsement and certainly implies the old policy was acceptable. So, if the old policy was morally licit then those here who have spoken against the change have a valid point.
 
gilliam said:
We are not talking about marriage, we are talking about letting boys join a club
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Not exactly. Homosexual boys could always join the scouts. We’re really talking about an official club policy allowing verbal expressions of one’s homosexuality to occur among the club members without negative consequences.
 
gilliam said:
We are not talking about marriage, we are talking about letting boys join a club
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That was per above, the poster talking about those who bring in race. Read the above posts.

Actually, gay scouts have always been free to join the BSA, just not with the addendum of disclosing the so-called sexual orientation.
 
Tigg said:
Cat Herder: I salute you! :tiphat:

Thanks for being all over this board on this issue!
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Thank you… I need all the encouragement I can get.

But I need help carrying the torch. I’ve put all the key info on my profile. You can add more. Spread the word, and especially tell parents and clergy. Make sure your Bishop knows what the Holy See has said.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Not exactly. Homosexual boys could always join the scouts. We’re really talking about an official club policy allowing verbal expressions of one’s homosexuality to occur among the club members without negative consequences.
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In the real world (not the world of CAF), the way the previous policy worked was if it was found out you were SSA, you were thrown out of the program.
 
signit said:
Respecting your view on that, just like a parent wanting to send their child to Catholic schools instead of the city schools.
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Exactly, or joining the KofC over the Rotary or Kiwanis. Nothing against Rotary or Kiwanis, but the KofC, being Catholic at it’s core, is therefore the better organization for Catholics
 
Tigg said:
The policy cannot stop human nature and what may happen in a tent until after the fact and does nothing to address the moral dimension which the bishop should be doing. All the boys will be exposed to potential harm - and the greater probably for the one with SSA.
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There is a thread right now about transgender youths and bathrooms in public schools. Posters seem mostly against this school policy that allows it. I am wondering why anyone would be against that policy yet support the new BSA policy? In both we have troubled youth. They both want to fit in.
 
gilliam said:
In the real world (not the world of CAF), the way the previous policy worked was if it was found out you were SSA, you were thrown out of the program.
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And you weren’t found out unless you were openly taking about it. If someone launches some kind of gay investigation into you, you were supposed to run it up the chain. If some unit discriminated against you you could join another troop. No one was issuing lifetime national bans just for being gay without open promotion AFAIK.
 
fix said:
There is a thread right now about transgender youths and bathrooms in public schools. Posters seem mostly against this school policy that allows it. I am wondering why anyone would be against that policy yet support the new BSA policy? In both we have troubled youth. They both want to fit in.
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But it does not follow that you expose them to emotional and spiritual harm. Bingo.
 
Cat_Herder said:
And you weren’t found out unless you were openly taking about it. .
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Not necessarily. One woman was removed because someone saw her being picked up repeatedly by another female and asked around and found out she was a lesbian. She was then removed from the Pack and the BSA

By the way, that policy is still in place.

People really are making assumptions without a lot of facts. Please don’t.
 
gilliam said:
Not necessarily. One woman was removed because someone saw her being picked up repeatedly by another female and asked around and found out she was a lesbian. She was then removed from the Pack and the BSA

By the way, that policy is still in place.

People really are making assumptions without a lot of facts. Please don’t.
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Who removed her from BSA? Only the National Executive Committee could do that.
 
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