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Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
And so what if a few of our children and/or grandchildren are lost to Christ in the process.
Anna
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Anna
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Orionthehunter
Guest
Anna Elizabeth:
Please read my post in its entirety and in context. I encouraged her to write her letter respectfully to Bishop Carlson. However, I’m getting tired of posts that effectively reject a Bishop’s authority in their criticism. IMHO, the biggest scandal in the last 30 years has been how it is OK to criticize and reject the authority of the Church. This used to be a scandal only done by those on the left but is now a sickness that is prevalent on the right.
Bishop Carlson is a very good holy and orthodox Bishop. He was my Bishop before being sent to Saginaw. In short, all I asked Singer to do is to trust that her Bishop will make necessary changes as soon as practical and will do so in his way and time and for her to accept both the changes he makes, the changes he doesn’t make, and the timeframe for both.
And, your assertion that Bishop Carlson isn’t concerned about if a “few of our children and/or grandchildren are lost to Christ in the process” is offensive and represents the attitude that is so disgracefully present among the laity in the American Church. If we want things the way they were, it starts with the laity being submissive and obedient and not defiant.
Anna, as you have taken my comment out of context, I have an urge to accuse you of being a Sola Scriptura fundamentalist as this is a favorite tactic of them to cast aspersions on another but I won’t.And so what if a few of our children and/or grandchildren are lost to Christ in the process.
Anna
Please read my post in its entirety and in context. I encouraged her to write her letter respectfully to Bishop Carlson. However, I’m getting tired of posts that effectively reject a Bishop’s authority in their criticism. IMHO, the biggest scandal in the last 30 years has been how it is OK to criticize and reject the authority of the Church. This used to be a scandal only done by those on the left but is now a sickness that is prevalent on the right.
Bishop Carlson is a very good holy and orthodox Bishop. He was my Bishop before being sent to Saginaw. In short, all I asked Singer to do is to trust that her Bishop will make necessary changes as soon as practical and will do so in his way and time and for her to accept both the changes he makes, the changes he doesn’t make, and the timeframe for both.
And, your assertion that Bishop Carlson isn’t concerned about if a “few of our children and/or grandchildren are lost to Christ in the process” is offensive and represents the attitude that is so disgracefully present among the laity in the American Church. If we want things the way they were, it starts with the laity being submissive and obedient and not defiant.
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singerlady
Guest
What have I written that criticizes and rejects the authority of Bishop Carlson or the Church? I have done nothing but praise the bishop in my postings. I wish you could have lived in this diocese the past 10 years. You would better understand where we are coming from.
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Orionthehunter
Guest
My comment was not directed at you but at Anna. At the same time, we all need to respect our Priest as he is who gives us the Sacraments and for that we need to be grateful. The Sacraments are greater than any abuse that might be done. Whenever we publicly disrespect a Priest, it reflects adversely on the entire authority of the Church. There are ways that we can disagree without being respectful. All I’m trying to stress is that we be respectful no matter how difficult it is. Anytime we offer up our suffering to God, Graces are gained.
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Anna_Elizabeth
Guest
Aha! Ad hominem, now! For shame!!! :tsktsk:Anna, as you have taken my comment out of context, I have an urge to accuse you of being a Sola Scriptura fundamentalist as this is a favorite tactic of them to cast aspersions on another but I won’t.
.
That’s apropos of your indifference, friend, not Bishop Carlson’s. If you had a somewhat longer history with this thread, you would be aware of my very early and unqualified and continuing support of Bishop Carlson.
You might also be familiar with the history of Arianism and the occasionally sad fate of those who piously, self-righteously and sometimes blindly follow their bishop.
Fun, eh?
Anna
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grotto
Guest
Everything I have come to know of Bishop Carlson is good.
I am praying for him and all the clergy in this poor diocese. I hope the things I say about the 30 year history of the decline of our Catholic Faith in the Saginaw Diocese is understood by those who have heard from many, but I doubt the decaying impact can be described with the pain, sorrow and damage suffered. Wanting to trust the heirarchy of the Church again easily is going to take time that the Faithful can hardly afford. Bishop Carlson has great need of our prayers because he has those who are against his guidance and who have yet to be subdued. Describing the years of abuse AGAIN, at this point in time, is not what I feel is good to do. However, where the abuse is still occurring, the Bishop needs to know so he can sort out those who are still causing damage. The climate of disregard and disdain for the Holy Father and the ROMAN Catholic Church is still slithering among us. A local priest became angry and abusive when kindly presented with printed info quoting the Church’s official position about kneeling at Mass during the Consecration, etc. The information was brought to him privately and truly in a respected and friendly manner because it was a humble attempt to right the wrong he had done the day before at the Mass when he told a mother and her five children to stand when they were kneeling - two times. The mother and children did stand but Mom was very disturbed in her soul, the children were confused and all in all, a troubled state of affairs (again). There has been no order from Bishop Carlson to stand after the Sanctus thru the Minor Elevation and after the Agnus Dei (and thank you God, the former Bishop did not get around to demanding standing as has now happened in an adjoining Diocese). The same priest took last weekend off from having the Mass for the people so they can practice experiencing
“priestless” Sunday “whatever”. How does that happen? Why?
Is that what Our Lord wants His priests to do - practice not being there? Come on … Next, the people will not come to Mass on Sunday to “practice” not being there. Oh, someone will still say, “that isn’t what is meant”. Tell me, what possible reason could prompt this except the slithering reason of evil intent!
Cowards who excuse themselves from defending Our Faith under the guise of “being obedient” are not thinking of Our Lord and His Church, they are going along to get along - or being lukewarm as Our Lord described them and said He would spit them out! That is good enough for me - Lord, please keep me from betraying You!
I am praying for him and all the clergy in this poor diocese. I hope the things I say about the 30 year history of the decline of our Catholic Faith in the Saginaw Diocese is understood by those who have heard from many, but I doubt the decaying impact can be described with the pain, sorrow and damage suffered. Wanting to trust the heirarchy of the Church again easily is going to take time that the Faithful can hardly afford. Bishop Carlson has great need of our prayers because he has those who are against his guidance and who have yet to be subdued. Describing the years of abuse AGAIN, at this point in time, is not what I feel is good to do. However, where the abuse is still occurring, the Bishop needs to know so he can sort out those who are still causing damage. The climate of disregard and disdain for the Holy Father and the ROMAN Catholic Church is still slithering among us. A local priest became angry and abusive when kindly presented with printed info quoting the Church’s official position about kneeling at Mass during the Consecration, etc. The information was brought to him privately and truly in a respected and friendly manner because it was a humble attempt to right the wrong he had done the day before at the Mass when he told a mother and her five children to stand when they were kneeling - two times. The mother and children did stand but Mom was very disturbed in her soul, the children were confused and all in all, a troubled state of affairs (again). There has been no order from Bishop Carlson to stand after the Sanctus thru the Minor Elevation and after the Agnus Dei (and thank you God, the former Bishop did not get around to demanding standing as has now happened in an adjoining Diocese). The same priest took last weekend off from having the Mass for the people so they can practice experiencing
“priestless” Sunday “whatever”. How does that happen? Why?
Is that what Our Lord wants His priests to do - practice not being there? Come on … Next, the people will not come to Mass on Sunday to “practice” not being there. Oh, someone will still say, “that isn’t what is meant”. Tell me, what possible reason could prompt this except the slithering reason of evil intent!
Cowards who excuse themselves from defending Our Faith under the guise of “being obedient” are not thinking of Our Lord and His Church, they are going along to get along - or being lukewarm as Our Lord described them and said He would spit them out! That is good enough for me - Lord, please keep me from betraying You!
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Walt_Oliver
Guest
Please stop attacking each other and stick to the topic of the thread. Otherwise, it will be closed. Thanks.
Walt
Walt
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ekindermann
Guest
ORIGINAL POST (TOPIC)QUOTE=MBS1]I am from the diocese of Saginaw, Mi., which had notoriously been very liberal under former Bishop Ken Untener (who passed away earlier this year). Liturical abuse was rampant under him, and continues to be a even though he is gone. Bishop Robert J. Carlson from Sioux Falls, S.D. has just been named the new Bishop here in the Saginaw diocese. Does anyone know anything about him? Liberal, orthodox, etc. I for one would love to see someone come in and put a stop to nuns giving the homily, to standing during the consecration of the host, and many other things. Is there hope? Thank you for any information you can relay.
MBS1
Moderator Warning:
Please stop attacking each other and stick to the topic of the thread. Otherwise, it will be closed. Thanks.
Walt
Dear Moderator,
I realize we’ve gotten a bit testy with each other at times, but I don’t think (???) anyone here can’t handle whatever has been said thus far. None of even the fiesty commenters - like myself - or the most sensitive - like myself - have left due to what may be viewed by some as “attacking”. When you look back at some exchanges between Frommi & I, I’m suprised you did not comment to us at that time? 
We’ve been corresponding for a long time now, many months, and the same core folks are continuing to “discuss” the topic (above).
I am not trying to argue with your moderation, I guess I’m trying to say that you can relax, we’ve been doing this for many months and we’re all still here, so…Thank you for your concern. Sometimes we’ve had to discuss the poster’s motives or inferences, etc., in order to see if we were coming from the same mind set or perspective. Like grotto so thoughtfully just stated, “Describing the years of abuse AGAIN, at this point in time, is not what I feel is good to do. However, where the abuse is still occurring, the Bishop needs to know so he can sort out those who are still causing damage. The climate of disregard and disdain for the Holy Father and the ROMAN Catholic Church is still slithering among us.” Now granted, the use of the word “coward” was borderline, but much worse has been given and taken here, and we’re all fine with that.
I hope this came off as the reassurance it is meant to be and not a disrespect of your authority.:bowdown2: I appreciate your time spent moderating.
God Bless You, Beth
MBS1
Moderator Warning:
Please stop attacking each other and stick to the topic of the thread. Otherwise, it will be closed. Thanks.
Walt
Dear Moderator,
I realize we’ve gotten a bit testy with each other at times, but I don’t think (???) anyone here can’t handle whatever has been said thus far. None of even the fiesty commenters - like myself
- or the most sensitive - like myself - have left due to what may be viewed by some as “attacking”. When you look back at some exchanges between Frommi & I, I’m suprised you did not comment to us at that time? We’ve been corresponding for a long time now, many months, and the same core folks are continuing to “discuss” the topic (above).I am not trying to argue with your moderation, I guess I’m trying to say that you can relax, we’ve been doing this for many months and we’re all still here, so…Thank you for your concern. Sometimes we’ve had to discuss the poster’s motives or inferences, etc., in order to see if we were coming from the same mind set or perspective. Like grotto so thoughtfully just stated, “Describing the years of abuse AGAIN, at this point in time, is not what I feel is good to do. However, where the abuse is still occurring, the Bishop needs to know so he can sort out those who are still causing damage. The climate of disregard and disdain for the Holy Father and the ROMAN Catholic Church is still slithering among us.” Now granted, the use of the word “coward” was borderline, but much worse has been given and taken here, and we’re all fine with that.
I hope this came off as the reassurance it is meant to be and not a disrespect of your authority.:bowdown2: I appreciate your time spent moderating.
God Bless You, Beth
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psalm90
Guest
I agree in part with the previous post, that abuses continue to “slither” around the diocese. I have corresponded with the Bishop who seems to always misunderstand my letter, no matter how simple the issue is stated.
It took about five letters to get Bishop Carlson to say unequivocally that the Catechism has no errors in it. Having said that, he then seemed to wander off away from my “cases” of where it was occurring.
Variances from the Catechism are difficult to document, unless they occur in writing, in the first place.
Having, nevertheless, documented writing that is contrary and, to be specific, opposite of the Catechism, the originator also seems to use every means to evade and deny the charge, as well as to belittle the Catechism – that it’s just a “starting point”, you know.
It took about five letters to get Bishop Carlson to say unequivocally that the Catechism has no errors in it. Having said that, he then seemed to wander off away from my “cases” of where it was occurring.
Variances from the Catechism are difficult to document, unless they occur in writing, in the first place.
Having, nevertheless, documented writing that is contrary and, to be specific, opposite of the Catechism, the originator also seems to use every means to evade and deny the charge, as well as to belittle the Catechism – that it’s just a “starting point”, you know.
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Orionthehunter
Guest
Bishop Carlson was my Bishop before leaving us. Trust me when I say he is a good, holy man pursuing to follow Christ and fulfill his awesome teaching responsibility to the flock. He is also one of the smartest person I have ever met. One of his best friends here and a successful businessman said that if he hadn’t become a Priest, he would be the CEO of a Fortune 500 company. He fully grasps what you are saying I am sure. However, he has a very private style of managing and accomplishes change using means that are at first imperceptible. But all of a sudden you will wake up and say “Holiest of Cows. This place is really different.”
Let me give you a couple of examples.He didn’t tell the Priests to know that Bible better. He just kept talking about how he reads it cover to cover annually and has since his ordination. He didn’t tell them to start Eucharistic Adoration that is now done throughout the Dioceses but instead took his Priests to Adoration when his Priests came to him for direction. And regarding the abuses you site, I think it will be as a last resort that he will force change by executive fiat. It is my suspicion that he will gently teach as Jesus teaches. Be patient my friends. Bishop Carlson is one after the type of changes that last for eternity. He will not do quick fixes.
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Flower
Guest
The moderator is correct. While most of you have been communicating these past several months amongst yourselves, you really don’t have a clue how much damage you have really done.
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ekindermann
Guest
puhleeze! really fill us in. I don’t think we have that much power do you? Power of prayer, yes. So all this while, you have been sitting back, watching all this damage be done…and you haven’t said a thing? interesting.
Of course there is this old quote from you…
*You are right on!! The recipe was approved. Furthermore, Bishop Ken was a visionary. He was a very spiritual, humble person who led his flock with a brilliant mind and a simple staff and a… *so much damage, you think you’d try to be a voice of reason. Sounds very disingenuous to me.
God Bless You, whatever your motive, Beth
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ekindermann
Guest
A long time ago, you were asked by singerlady how you knew these things…I noticed you never answered.
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frommi
Guest
Walt Oliver:
That being said, in general, I think the conversation has had it’s thoughtful moments, when we haven’t tried to one-up each other to any great extent.
It is usually only when posters come in discussing how they are going to “pray for the wayward diocese of saginaw and the poor people there who have been misled for a number of years…” that things get heated.
It’s been 10 months since a new Bishop was named for the diocese, and my guess is people are still trying to figure out the positives and negatives of the former bishop’s legacy, as well as trying to decipher what path the new shepherd will lead them on.
Throw in the fact that for every person who is afraid the new Bishop will change everything, there is another person who is afraid he won’t change anything.
Admittedly, there have been some ad hominem attacks made back and forth (some of which I was a part of)…
That being said, in general, I think the conversation has had it’s thoughtful moments, when we haven’t tried to one-up each other to any great extent.
It is usually only when posters come in discussing how they are going to “pray for the wayward diocese of saginaw and the poor people there who have been misled for a number of years…” that things get heated.
It’s been 10 months since a new Bishop was named for the diocese, and my guess is people are still trying to figure out the positives and negatives of the former bishop’s legacy, as well as trying to decipher what path the new shepherd will lead them on.
Throw in the fact that for every person who is afraid the new Bishop will change everything, there is another person who is afraid he won’t change anything.
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cdwiseman
Guest
Bishop Carlson’s Rosary Tape
http://www.saginawchurch.org/color_rosary2.pdf
*** I have his Rosary CD from when he was Bishop of Sioux Falls,SD…**
-Chris
http://www.saginawchurch.org/color_rosary2.pdf
*** I have his Rosary CD from when he was Bishop of Sioux Falls,SD…**
-Chris
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PiusXIII
Guest
Personally I don’t see any real difference since Bishop Carlson took over. Some churches (St. John Vianney for example) still use the honey flavored bread recipe for communion—and Bishop Carlson himself handed out that kind of bread for communion when he visited there recently. It really looks like he’s keeping things the way Untener had them.
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Shiann
Guest
As a former ‘lamb’ of Bishop Carlson’s myself I wholeheartedly agree with OriontheHunter when they said:
Bishop Carlson will inspire people to change themselves. He does not play the military general role and demand changes.
There is no other way to explain it.
There WILL be change in the Saginaw Diocese. And the changes will be long term and fruitful- not temporary and fleeting. I encourage all of those who are now under his spiritual care to continue to pray and have faith. You have a remarakable shepard.
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PiusXIII
Guest
I already got that impression—that he handles most everything with much respect and gentleness. I have not met him personally but so far, I had gotten that impression about him.
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Mr.Bean
Guest
honey flavored eucharist? Wow. I am glad that I got as far away from Midland as I could. I went to St. Brigit every now and then before I became Catholic and I always enjoyed their Easter Vigil service. Also currently, to my knowledge, St. Mary’s, Blessed Sacrament, and St. Bridgit are sharing one or two priests between them. St. Bridgit was conservative compared to Blessed Sacrament or the parish I was confirmed in St. Thomas More’s Student Parish in Kalamazoo, MI.
Hi to midlandchemic and all others from the Midland area!
Hi to midlandchemic and all others from the Midland area!
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River_Glorious
Guest
A month or so ago I posted that our priest was going to inform us as to what changes were discussed at the priest/bishop retreat. He never did (kinda wondering what happened), but this week he has informed us that Bishop Carlson is having a meeting with all the pastors on November 30 to discuss the GIRM and to go over any changes he feels should be made in 2006.
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