Bishop says tighter gun laws will help build culture of life

[Ridgerunner]

–USCCB Call to Action In Response to Newtown Tragedy

1.Support measures that control the sale and use of firearms

2.Support measures that make guns safer (especially efforts that prevent their unsupervised use by children and anyone other than the owner)

3.Call for sensible regulations of handguns

4.Support legislative efforts that seek to protect society from the violence associated with easy access to deadly weapons including assault weapons

5.Make a serious commitment to confront the pervasive role of addiction and mental illness in crime.

–USCCB Call to Action In Response to Newtown Tragedy

Not a response of all bishops, and certainly not mine.
But what, exactly, are their proposals? I have not seen any yet. Nor have I seen their definition of “assault weapons”. #1 and #3 are already in place. And what, exactly, do they propose regarding #2 and #5?

 

[TEPO]

Honestly, I’m expecting criminals to eventually abandon guns for bombs. It’s what would be expected in the last days.

Just imagine how simple it would be throwing a grenade into a 7/11 and then robbing everyone’s wallet and the cash register. I think It will come to that point inevitably anyways.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Those prospects do not stop the private sales from happening right now, where guns and cash change hands without even name exchanges. We’re supposed to think that those guns are traceable so sufficiently as to solve crimes?

How many private sales are there where guns and cash exchange hands without name exchanges? Criminals, of course, won’t comply anyway, so how many of those occur when the seller is not a criminal or a knowing abettor, and how many deaths are attributable to those sales?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Not a response of all bishops, and certainly not mine.
But what, exactly, are their proposals? I have not seen any yet. Nor have I seen their definition of “assault weapons”. #1 and #3 are already in place. And what, exactly, do they propose regarding #2 and #5?

Your bishop is not part of the USCCB? What is the response of your bishop on the issue? I have been requesting statements of bishops that do not agree with the other bishops.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

How many private sales are there where guns and cash exchange hands without name exchanges? Criminals, of course, won’t comply anyway, so how many of those occur when the seller is not a criminal or a knowing abettor, and how many deaths are attributable to those sales?

You cannot count an exact number, but it’s been proven to happen. CNN recently did a story with an uncover camera. They went to 5, I think it was 5, gun shows. A ‘young man’ purchased several semi-automatic pistols, and an AR15, without even exchanging names. There were a couple of instances where he was actually turned down for not producing an ID. It happens.

I provided a link to the video on this thread, but here it is again CNN.

I also provided BOJ poll results where 40% of criminals stated they got their guns from family and ‘friends.’

We have a problem in this country. To do nothing is nothing. To add more guns to the mix is throwing fuel to a fire, in my opinion, and the opinion of the bishops.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Your bishop is not part of the USCCB? What is the response of your bishop on the issue? I have been requesting statements of bishops that do not agree with the other bishops.

No, it’s the other way. One bishop does not make the USCCB.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

No, it’s the other way. One bishop does not make the USCCB.

The USCCB issued a Call to Action In Response to Newton. That letterhead represents all the bishops who are a part of the the USCCB. None have stepped forward with a different opinion than was offered in that response. I know some gun rights advocates desire to take the silence from some as support, but that’s not the way it works.

The multiple documents names ‘committees’ of bishops, as well as individual bishops. It’s not one bishop.

 

[SamH]

No, it’s the other way. One bishop does not make the USCCB.

Agreed. Just as Congresswoman Bachmann is not the official spokesperson for the United States government.

 

[Fairwinds]

The USCCB issued a Call to Action In Response to Newton. That letterhead represents all the bishops who are a part of the the USCCB. None have stepped forward with a different opinion than was offered in that response. I know some gun rights advocates desire to take the silence from some as support, but that’s not the way it works.

The multiple documents names ‘committees’ of bishops, as well as individual bishops. It’s not one bishop.

is the Call to Action a teaching on faith and morals that the faithful are obligated to believe on the banning of “assault weapons”?

that would be, “no”.

F/

 

[Ridgerunner]

You cannot count an exact number, but it’s been proven to happen. CNN recently did a story with an uncover camera. They went to 5, I think it was 5, gun shows. A ‘young man’ purchased several semi-automatic pistols, and an AR15, without even exchanging names. There were a couple of instances where he was actually turned down for not producing an ID. It happens.

I provided a link to the video on this thread, but here it is again CNN.

I also provided BOJ poll results where 40% of criminals stated they got their guns from family and ‘friends.’

We have a problem in this country. To do nothing is nothing. To add more guns to the mix is throwing fuel to a fire, in my opinion, and the opinion of the bishops.

Please cite the DOJ (I assume you meant DOJ) source. How many of those were checked out, but were really stolen or bought from “friends” who are also criminals or were bought by family members who are criminals?

Name the bishops who have said what you’re saying, and the sources for their statements. So far, you have mentioned general remarks by Cdl Dolan and that of Bp Blair. That’s it. No specific measures were mentioned by either one, and a good part of what Bp Blair recommended generelly is already in the law.

 

[Ridgerunner]

is the Call to Action a teaching on faith and morals that the faithful are obligated to believe on the banning of “assault weapons”?

that would be, “no”.

F/

As near as I can tell, it’s the statement of one bishop only, and some of the recommendations are already in the law.

 

[Ridgerunner]

The USCCB issued a Call to Action In Response to Newton. That letterhead represents all the bishops who are a part of the the USCCB. None have stepped forward with a different opinion than was offered in that response. I know some gun rights advocates desire to take the silence from some as support, but that’s not the way it works.

The multiple documents names ‘committees’ of bishops, as well as individual bishops. It’s not one bishop.

It’s one bishop. It has been shown time and again on here that a USCCB statement is by “the bishops” only if adopted by vote of the bishops as a body. Otherwise, it’s the opinion of one man, no matter what stationery he uses.

 

[Fairwinds]

As near as I can tell, it’s the statement of one bishop only, and some of the recommendations are already in the law.

I honestly don’t see anything fruitful coming out of statements like that. the issue is already too polarized. maybe after this administration is out.

F/

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Please cite the DOJ (I assume you meant DOJ) source. How many of those were checked out, but were really stolen or bought from “friends” who are also criminals or were bought by family members who are criminals?

Name the bishops who have said what you’re saying, and the sources for their statements. So far, you have mentioned general remarks by Cdl Dolan and that of Bp Blair. That’s it. No specific measures were mentioned by either one, and a good part of what Bp Blair recommended generelly is already in the law.

What percentage of criminals obtain their firearms from friends or family or the street?

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, 40 percent of criminals obtain their firearms from friends or family and another 40 percent obtain their firearms from illegal sources on the street.

I have provided links to all the statements I find agreement with. The USCCB statement represents all the bishops. It’s on their website, and their letterhead. It references all the bishops. At least none have spoken out to separate themselves from the call to action.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It’s one bishop. It has been shown time and again on here that a USCCB statement is by “the bishops” only if adopted by vote of the bishops as a body. Otherwise, it’s the opinion of one man, no matter what stationery he uses.

This is from the USCCB:

The teaching authority of the Catholic Church, called the Magisterium, lies with all of the bishops who are led by the pope and guided by the Holy Spirit. The pope and bishops are the authoritative teachers in the Church. In this section of our Web site, you can find information about many forms of Catholic teaching.

Where are the bishops that separate themselves from that? We don’t get to pick and choose.

The bishops, like any governing body, appoint committees. This is issued from the bishops. None have separated themselves from it.

 

[Ridgerunner]

Your bishop is not part of the USCCB? What is the response of your bishop on the issue? I have been requesting statements of bishops that do not agree with the other bishops.

My bishop has not endorsed Bp. Blaire’s opinion, if that’s your question.

Various individual bishops do not speak for all of the bishops. Biship Blaire is stating his own opinion. If you think the bishops as a whole voted for his position, cite it from a reputable source.

But you’re wrong if you’re trying to suggest that his letter is more than his own opinion and that he speaks for all the bishops. You know that. restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2010/09/bishop-vasa-usccb-has-no-intrinsic.html

 

[scipio337]

I have provided links to all the statements I find agreement with. The USCCB statement represents all the bishops. It’s on their website, and their letterhead. It references all the bishops. At least none have spoken out to separate themselves from the call to action.

Other facts from that same DOJ study:

39.6% of criminals obtained a gun from a friend or family member
• 39.2% of criminals obtained a gun on the street or from an illegal source
• 0.7% of criminals purchased a gun at a gun show
• 1% of criminals purchased a gun at a flea market
• 3.8% of criminals purchased a gun from a pawn shop
• 8.3% of criminals actually bought their guns from retail outlets

dailycaller.com/2013/02/11/where-criminals-get-their-guns/

In other words, universal background checks will have no effect on 80% of crimes committed. We can look to California (universal background checks in place), Chicago, and Washington DC (handguns banned for 2 decades) for proof positive that restricting gun ownership doesn’t reduce crime.

The elephant in the living room few will mention, is that outside of major metripolitan areas (average 6 gun deaths per 100,000 or so), the gun death rate in the rest of America is more comparable to some countries in Europe, at about 3%.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I have provided links to all the statements I find agreement with. The USCCB statement represents all the bishops. It’s on their website, and their letterhead. It references all the bishops. At least none have spoken out to separate themselves from the call to action.

Wrong. The Canon Law provides:

"Can. 455 §1. A conference of bishops can only issue general decrees in cases where universal law has prescribed it or a special mandate of the Apostolic See has established it either motu proprio or at the request of the conference itself.

§2. The decrees mentioned in §1, in order to be enacted validly in a plenary meeting, must be passed by at least a two thirds vote of the prelates who belong to the conference and possess a deliberative vote. They do not obtain binding force unless they have been legitimately promulgated after having been reviewed by the Apostolic See.

§3. The conference of bishops itself determines the manner of promulgation and the time when the decrees take effect.

§4. In cases in which neither universal law nor a special mandate of the Apostolic See has granted the power mentioned in §1 to a conference of bishops, the competence of each diocesan bishop remains intact, nor is a conference or its president able to act in the name of all the bishops unless each and every bishop has given consent."

You have not demonstrated that all bishops have consented to Bp. Blaire’s statement, nor that the Holy See has mandated it and that 2/3 of the bishops have voted for it.

 

[ComputerGeek25]

Other facts from that same DOJ study:

39.6% of criminals obtained a gun from a friend or family member
• 39.2% of criminals obtained a gun on the street or from an illegal source
• 0.7% of criminals purchased a gun at a gun show
• 1% of criminals purchased a gun at a flea market
• 3.8% of criminals purchased a gun from a pawn shop
• 8.3% of criminals actually bought their guns from retail outlets

dailycaller.com/2013/02/11/where-criminals-get-their-guns/

In other words, universal background checks will have no effect on 80% of crimes committed. We can look to California (universal background checks in place), Chicago, and Washington DC (handguns banned for 2 decades) for proof positive that restricting gun ownership doesn’t reduce crime.

The elephant in the living room few will mention, is that outside of major metripolitan areas (average 6 gun deaths per 100,000 or so), the gun death rate in the rest of America is more comparable to some countries in Europe, at about 3%.

Personally, I am more concerned about gangs and the mentally ill than I am about strict gun control. Your data is the first step in confirming my conclusions.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

My bishop has not endorsed Bp. Blaire’s opinion, if that’s your question.

Various individual bishops do not speak for all of the bishops. Biship Blaire is stating his own opinion. If you think the bishops as a whole voted for his position, cite it from a reputable source.

But you’re wrong if you’re trying to suggest that his letter is more than his own opinion and that he speaks for all the bishops. You know that. restore-dc-catholicism.blogspot.com/2010/09/bishop-vasa-usccb-has-no-intrinsic.html

USCCB Committees Call For Action In Response To Newtown Tragedy

WASHINGTON—In the aftermath of the Sandy Hook tragedy in Newtown, Connecticut, the chairmen of three committees of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) issued a joint statement to decry violence in society. The bishops repeated the call from Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York, president of USCCB, who expressed on the day of the horrible tragedy, deepest sorrow for all the victims and a call to work for peace in our homes, streets and world. They called on all Americans, especially legislators, to address national policies that will strengthen regulations of firearms and improve access to health care for those with mental health needs.

“As Catholic Bishops, we join together with the President of our Conference, Cardinal Timothy Dolan, who on the day of the horrible tragedy expressed his profound solidarity with and prayers for the families, friends, neighbors, and communities whose hearts have been rent by the loss of a child or loved one,” said Bishop Stephen E. Blaire of Stockton, Bishop John C. Wester of Salt Lake City, and Bishop Kevin C. Rhoades of Fort Wayne-South Bend.

I assume you’re not suggesting that these bishops took liberties by including all. As I said, none have spoken to separate themselves from the statement. There is not even one dissenting voice among them.

All our American bishops are members of the USCCB.

Personally, I am not looking for a ‘legalistic’ way around what they have spoken. I will accept it, and accept it as unified until I see that they are not unified in this call to action.