Bishop Vasa asks Catholics to affirm church teachings

[cornbread_r2]

I just want to add that a big part of the big problem I have with the third scenario involves requiring this of teachers who have already been teaching successfully in the system. It seems to be changing the rules for them in the middle of the game. That objection would not apply to new teachers coming into the system as they would know from the get go what their employer expected.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

VeritasLuxMea;10428312:

Teacher’s catch hell for the craziest things these days. My local parish school now refuses to hire any teachers from within their town or any of the bordering towns. Generally speaking, the idea is that they don’t want you to come into contact with parents or students outside of school in your free time.

For example, I was out with my wife, one of my friends (a teacher) and his (then) girlfriend. A parent spotted him and contacted the administration. On Monday, he gets called in to the office and chewed out. They said that he should be setting a “better example.” The funny thing? He didn’t even touch a drink that night! He was just enjoying a meal with friends. He was stone cold sober the whole time. For teachers apparently, even being near

alcohol is a crime. LOL.
QUOTE]

He was chewed out…for eating in a restaurant!!!

.

For drinking in public. But he wasn’t drinking, the rest of us were having wine or beer. So, I guess for the proximity to alcohol. The parent felt it was unbecoming a teacher.

I’m not lying. It’s ridiculous. This stuff really happens. The louder you complain as a parent, the more they will listen to you, even if their concerns are irrational.

Here’s a story about a high school teacher who had to resign from her job for “promoting alcohol” because they found a photo of her holding a couple glasses on vacation. This stuff really happens, that’s the only reason I want to see the full statement that they have to sign in this case.

 

[Tigg]

The teacher said he objects to the “whole idea that they want me to live their morals when it’s my personal life what I do outside of work.”

I think this logic is so flawed. Is what you do outside of work the “real you?” Or maybe we slip on the work mask at dawn and take it off at the end of the day. Kids are so smart and impressionable. I remember some of my grade school teachers - the ones I had such a fondness for and the ones whose words and example went somewhere deep inside. There are subtle elements of personality and speech always there which are bound to influence one way or the other, even if subconsciously.

 

[SonSearcher]

Teachers asked to live their faith. Shocking.

AMEN. I am a public school teacher and I would love my superintendent to throw down a gauntlet like this. Not in a religious capacity, but a virtuous one.

 

[Lucky7]

I just want to add that a big part of the big problem I have with the third scenario involves requiring this of teachers who have already been teaching successfully in the system. It seems to be changing the rules for them in the middle of the game. That objection would not apply to new teachers coming into the system as they would know from the get go what their employer expected.

The only way that this should affect them negatively is if they were dissenting Catholics all along. If so, they’ll just have to change their ways. I’m really not going to lose any sleep over that. More likely I’d be saying: it’s about time.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

The only way that this should affect them negatively is if they were dissenting Catholics all along. If so, they’ll just have to change their ways. I’m really not going to lose any sleep over that. More likely I’d be saying: it’s about time.

Were they all Catholics? I think they should be, but were they? If they weren’t that’s a problem.

 

[Lucky7]

Were they all Catholics? I think they should be, but were they? If they weren’t that’s a problem.

You know what? As sad as it may be, I’m willing to bet that the non-Catholic teachers were more respectful of Catholic teachings than some of their Catholic counterparts.

 

[TomFromMD]

I’m guessing that if they were honest about it, a majority of the staff would have to quit. A few will be honest. Others will sign the document anyway. So you’re left with a bunch of duplicitous ones. Congratulations. It seems reasonable to me to require them to teach in accordance with Catholic teaching, but requiring them to agree with everything is asinine.

 

[MJE]

To suggest that a bishop or any church official would (or has ever asked) ask Catholics to sign a document promising to be 'sinless" is silly. This discussion has moved from the sublime to the ridiculous.

 

[Lucky7]

To suggest that a bishop or any church official would (or has ever asked) ask Catholics to sign a document promising to be 'sinless" is silly. This discussion has moved from the sublime to the ridiculous.

Um, where has he required anyone to be sinless?

 

[SonSearcher]

But he is asking non-Catholics to agree to follow Catholic teaching, I think.
As in…a teacher who is not Catholic would be asked not use condoms, even tho her religion does not ask this.

Perhaps they should only hire teachers who are Catholic. It would make more sense then to request they follow what the religion believes.

I mean…it’s like asking a Catholic to not mix milk and meat and wear a yamaka …even in the privacy of their own home.

I think he is saying teach the faith correctly. If not get stepping or start teaching the faith correctly.

It says nothing about what the teacher needs to do in their own lives. The Bishop has no jurisdiction in the homes of the parishioners let alone the homes of the employees of the diocese. But he does have a responsibility to be an affective and bold Catholic shepherd and I think this is a good thing.

further in line with part of your statement I think this will lead to a more appropriate shift of Catholics needing to go work for Catholic dioceses. My wife (public school teacher) and I (public school teacher) used to live out there… the first thing I thought when I heard this is we need to move out there and teach in that diocese. It is beautiful out there.

 

[MJE]

Bishop Vasa has not asked anyone to be sinless. I am referring to the comments here suggesting Catholic faculty members are being asked to sign I PLEDGE to live a sinless life!

Um, where has he required anyone to be sinless?

one comment:
Asking them not to promote error is one thing, and totally acceptable. Asking for sinless teachers/monitoring their personal lives, on the other hand, is unrealistic and unfair.

There are photo’s on the internet w/ Benedict XVI holding a pint of German beer. Photo’s in the newspapers, routinely, showing Catholic priests & laity w/ cocktail in their hands @ fundraiser. Catholic parishes serve beer & wine @ parish events. I do not get the ‘scandal’ re: booze.

 

[vames]

The article is unclear exactly what this addendum to the teachers’ contract requires. It would have been helpful if the addendum had been reproduced in full.

If it means that all teachers must acknowledge Catholic teachings and agree to not speak or write against them while on campus, then I’d have no problem with that.

If it means that all teachers must not dissent against Catholic teachings at any time, in any venue, in any way, then I’d have a problem with that, but would also acknowledge that a school might have some grounds for such a requirement depending upon how such dissent was conducted.

If, however, it means that all teachers must, as the article seems to imply – adhere to and model Catholic teachings at all times and places and even in their personal lives – then I’d have a big problem with that, all day long. I would regard that extreme as a violation of the teachers’ rights to religious freedoms and conscience. I would also regard that as putting a lie to the notion that Catholics don’t try to force their teachings on anyone else. Please note that I would not be objecting to what might be included in normal, so-called, morals clauses.

The addendum is in a file next to the article:
pressdemocrat.com/assets/jpg/SR26527227.JPG

“I acknowledge that even my personal life (…) is to be in conformity with the 10 Commandments. (…) I agree that it is my duty, to the best of my ability, to believe, teach/administer and live in accord with what the Catholic Church holds and professes.”

The only part where the text is addressed only to the Catholic teachers is where it says that they should attend Mass each Sunday. All the rest is addressed both to Catholics and non-Catholics.
The article says that the contract addendum has been distributed to the 200 educators at 11 Catholic schools who are formally employed by the bishop. 25 percent of the teachers are non-Catholic.

As to the sincerity of those who will sign the document, the article says:

Bishop Vasa questioned whether someone "can teach what the Catholic Church teaches with zeal and enthusiasm while holding, as they say, ‘in the privacy of their heart’ " views that are contrary to Catholic doctrine.

It seems that Bishop Vasa has no idea how many teachers taught Communist doctrine “with zeal and enthusiasm” in the Communist countries, while disagreeing with it “in the privacy of their heart”. They did that to keep their jobs.

 

[jwinch2]

Thanks to the moderation staff for combining the two threads which were going on this!

 

[Lucky7]

Bishop Vasa has not asked anyone to be sinless. I am referring to the comments here suggesting Catholic faculty members are being asked to sign I PLEDGE to live a sinless life!

one comment:
Asking them not to promote error is one thing, and totally acceptable. Asking for sinless teachers/monitoring their personal lives, on the other hand, is unrealistic and unfair.

There are photo’s on the internet w/ Benedict XVI holding a pint of German beer. Photo’s in the newspapers, routinely, showing Catholic priests & laity w/ cocktail in their hands @ fundraiser. Catholic parishes serve beer & wine @ parish events. I do not get the ‘scandal’ re: booze.

My apologies MJE. I totally read your post wrong. I agree with you.

 

[cornbread_r2]

The addendum is in a file next to the article:
pressdemocrat.com/assets/jpg/SR26527227.JPG

"I acknowledge that even my personal life (…) is to be in conformity with the 10 Commandments. (…) I agree that it is my duty, to the best of my ability, to believe, teach/administer and live in accord with what the Catholic Church holds and professes."

The only part where the text is addressed only to the Catholic teachers is where it says that they should attend Mass each Sunday. All the rest is addressed both to Catholics and non-Catholics.
The article says that the contract addendum has been distributed to the 200 educators at 11 Catholic schools who are formally employed by the bishop. 25 percent of the teachers are non-Catholic.

As to the sincerity of those who will sign the document, the article says:
It seems that Bishop Vasa has no idea how many teachers taught Communist doctrine “with zeal and enthusiasm” in the Communist countries, while disagreeing with it “in the privacy of their heart”. They did that to keep their jobs.

Thanks for the link.

I’m really at a loss as how the bishop can justifiably include the bolded part above in the contracts of his non-Catholic teachers. Do Catholics here really think it’s fair to include that clause in the contract of a science teacher, for instance, who had been otherwise successfully performing the duties of her position? If a Catholic here had been teaching at a Jewish school, how would you feel if you were now being asked to sign a similar pledge?

I wonder how long it will be before teachers with few or no children are asked to affirm that they aren’t using contraceptives.

I’m starting to think that this is the kind of thing that happens in a tight job market.

 

[Elizabeth502]

If a Catholic here had been teaching at a Jewish school, how would you feel if you were now being asked to sign a similar pledge?

You know what? As sad as it may be, I’m willing to bet that the non-Catholic teachers were more respectful of Catholic teachings than some of their Catholic counterparts.

I would lay money on it.

Just FYI (for all ), I once worked very briefly in a Jewish elementary school. (They knew I was not Jewish.) I did it as a favor to someone. What they required (of course!) was that I respect the religion and the practices, which I did. I made sure that my students did their Jewish studies and said their prayers. (The staff also knew that I was familiar with Judaism, and with Hebrew, and with Jewish holidays and practices.)

Wait. What a concept: Respecting the employer and the mission statement of the school.

(No, I was not asked to “sign a pledge,” but there had never been a problem at this school or similar schools before. The actions of Bishop Vasa are in response to growing and scandalous heterodoxy right in the Catholic schools, most of which comes not from non-Catholics but from self-identified Catholics.)

 

[cornbread_r2]

I would lay money on it.

Just FYI (for all ), I once worked very briefly in a Jewish elementary school. (They knew I was not Jewish.) I did it as a favor to someone. What they required (of course!) was that I respect the religion and the practices, which I did. I made sure that my students did their Jewish studies and said their prayers. (The staff also knew that I was familiar with Judaism, and with Hebrew, and with Jewish holidays and practices.)

Wait. What a concept: Respecting the employer and the mission statement of the school.

(No, I was not asked to “sign a pledge,” but there had never been a problem at this school or similar schools before. The actions of Bishop Vasa are in response to growing and scandalous heterodoxy right in the Catholic schools, most of which comes not from non-Catholics but from self-identified Catholics.)

But the non-Catholic teachers aren’t just being asked to respect Catholic religion and practices. They’re being asked to affirm, per the addendum:

I agree that it is my duty, to the best of my ability, to believe, teach/administer and live in accord with what the Catholic Church holds and professes.

That’s a huge difference.

 

[Elizabeth502]

But the non-Catholic teachers aren’t just being asked to respect Catholic religion and practices. They’re being asked to affirm, per the addendum:

I agree that it is my duty, to the best of my ability, to believe, teach/administer and live in accord with what the Catholic Church holds and professes.

That’s a huge difference.

You have information that specifically non-Catholics are being asked to “believe” Catholic doctrine? Not that Catholic teachers are. Non-Catholics.

Typically (I would know; I have taught in Catholic schools), only Catholic teachers are asked to be specifically Catholic role models for the school, which would include upholding/affirming Catholic beliefs, and would include much else as well (such as a Catholic lifestyle – not cohabiting with some dude/chick). Non-Catholic teachers are asked to do what I did for the Jewish school I mentioned: to support, and certainly not to offend. (For example, I never brought a ham sandwich or a shrimp salad for lunch.)

 

[cornbread_r2]

You have information that specifically non-Catholics are being asked to “believe” Catholic doctrine? Not that Catholic teachers are. Non-Catholics.

Typically (I would know; I have taught in Catholic schools), only Catholic teachers are asked to be specifically Catholic role models for the school, which would include upholding/affirming Catholic beliefs, and would include much else as well (such as a Catholic lifestyle – not cohabiting with some dude/chick). Non-Catholic teachers are asked to do what I did for the Jewish school I mentioned: to support, and certainly not to offend. (For example, I never brought a ham sandwich or a shrimp salad for lunch.)

Here’s the link to the addendum supplied by vames. See the 7th clause. As vames noted, only the 5th clause appears to apply to Catholic teachers exclusively.