Black and LDS

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zerinus said:
Not sure what you mean by that. You can’t have any “positions” until you are a member of the Church. And when you are a member, “positions” are given, not obtained. You don’t “try to obtain a position”. You wait until you are given one. The priesthood, however, is not a “position” at all! The priesthood is what enables you to serve in various different “positions”. And neither is “obtained,” but “extended” or “given”. You had got an awful lot of things wrong in that one.

zerinus
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I MEAN that if there was racism currently in mormonism…I would not know until I was in a position where I qualified for a position, but wasent given it.

Anyway so far mormons have been realy nice to me.
 
excaliber said:
Anyway so far mormons have been realy nice to me.
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Yes, they want you to become a Mormon so that maybe you, too, can become white and delightsome like they are. Or at the very least, make it to the celestial kingdom as a servant. Because we all know God wants some people to be servants for all eternity.
 
ibkc said:
Yes, they want you to become a Mormon so that maybe you, too, can become white and delightsome like they are. Or at the very least, make it to the celestial kingdom as a servant. Because we all know God wants some people to be servants for all eternity.
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YIKES!!!
They teach that there is slavery in heaven?
 
zerinus said:
Well, it would be interesting to know whether people that join the Catholic church were aware of the church’s history with their Inquisition, the Crusades, the persecution of the Jews, the burning of witches and heretics, the evil Popes etc., prior to joining the church; especially the condemnation of infants to damnation for no other reason than their not having been baptized. I’m betting most of them were not, as such things are not part of the missionary discussions, nor are likely to be brought up by a Catholic to a prospective new member. But then I think many Catholics are willing to let a lot go regarding church history in order to remain in the church. I think it has a lot to do with the psychology of a situation where you’re told again and again and again at every Sunday meeting that your church is the true church, and then when you find something out that doesn’t make the church look so good you can either: (1) ignore it because you can’t possibly stomach the possibility that everything you’ve vested your life in could be wrong, or (2) explore it further with the possibility that this could cause you to question and even leave the church and the huge social network that comes with it. Most choose # 1. A few choose # 2.

zerinus
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Not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here because almost all of what I said applies to the Mormon church and not the Catholic Church. Now, unlike you, I have experience with the conversion process in both churches, and let me assure you that the Catholic way of doing things is far different. You can’t even begin to compare the LDS missionary discussions to the Catholic RCIA program. The missionary discussions are suger-coated, make-you-feel-good memorized scripts intended to appeal to the emotions of the prospective convert. The RCIA program is a lengthy process of discovery about Catholicism. It is not based on emotion or a slick presentation. There is no pressure for conversion.
 
Chris-WA said:
Not sure what you’re trying to accomplish here because almost all of what I said applies to the Mormon church and not the Catholic Church. Now, unlike you, I have experience with the conversion process in both churches, and let me assure you that the Catholic way of doing things is far different. You can’t even begin to compare the LDS missionary discussions to the Catholic RCIA program. The missionary discussions are suger-coated, make-you-feel-good memorized scripts intended to appeal to the emotions of the prospective convert. The RCIA program is a lengthy process of discovery about Catholicism. It is not based on emotion or a slick presentation. There is no pressure for conversion.
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Not so long ago, the readings of the Mass were more or less about the holy spirit being a comforter. The lds community takes this comforter to be quite literal. The holy ghost will comfort the member and confirm truths about the lds faith.

The RCIA program is about what is expected for being a good catholic. Much is discussed from the catechism and the early fathers of the church. It can play to the intellect. But somewhere along the line, the holy spirit must be present to comfort the candidate through the process. If not, the RCIA program would just be nice lectures on the catholic faith.

Emotions do not come into play in both programs.
 
excaliber said:
I MEAN that if there was racism currently in mormonism…I would not know until I was in a position where I qualified for a position, but wasent given it.

Anyway so far mormons have been realy nice to me.
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The mormon church is not racist. But that is not to say that you will not find racist members. Racism is in all religions since human beings are not perfect and as such, they can judge someone according to race. In my parish, I have heard recist remarks by somewhat elderly women who were from southeast asia. They are good catholics and yet, they can look down at blacks. How to explain it? Some lds can be the same. But both faiths do not teach racism.
 
ibkc said:
After the collapse of the Roman Empire, Europe descended into the Dark Ages with many little kingdoms and warring rulers dotting the landscape. The only thing most of these little kingdoms had in common was their submission to the authority of the Church. Therefore the Church’s role in “government”, as you rather inaccurately term it, grew organically in response to the needs of the times. Contrast this with the early LDS Church, who arose in a highly evolved government based on peace and freedom, but was not able to get along within those parameters, and eventually had to remove themselves far out into the frontier so that their megalomaniacal leader, Brigham Young, could have himself dozens of wives and total control of his very own theocracy - and that at a time when theocracies were rare. Even medieval Europe with the influence of the Catholic Church at its height cannot be termed a theocracy.
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The dark ages gave birth to the reformation. And the reasons for the reformation were simple: the religious structure of the catholic church needed to be reformed and the best way to do this was to create a split. And yet, the reformation came about in some regard because of the corruption of the catholic church as seen by martin luther and other reformers. But certainly local government and the church went hand in hand.

You need to read lds history a little better. The mormons may have created a culture within a culture but unfortunately they were beginning to meet the same fate as the american indian. Driven from their land and faced with liquidation. Such was the intolerent mindset of the american frontier and its people. The lds were victims as were the indians and any other cultural difference that came up against an intolerant frontier.
 
why_me said:
The dark ages gave birth to the reformation.
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No, the Dark Ages gave birth to the High Middle Ages, which gave birth to the Late Middle Age, which gave birth to the Renaissance, which led into the Reformation. If you’re going to make an argument like this, please get your facts straight. The Dark Ages did not “give birth” to the Reformation.
the religious structure of the catholic church needed to be reformed and the best way to do this was to create a split.
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I will not argue that by the 1500’s, the Church was getting a bit long in the tooth and too big for its britches and that it needed reform, but this statement: “the religious structure needed to be reformed”? What is this? It was certain practices that were the problem. Not the religion itself or the structure per se. I also question that splitting it into what would become 30,000 heretical factions was the way to go about it, but whatever.
You need to read lds history a little better. The mormons may have created a culture within a culture but unfortunately they were beginning to meet the same fate as the american indian. Driven from their land
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This is so offensive on so many levels, especially considering the aggressively trashy behavior of the early Mormon wife-swapping leaders. Please take your persecution complex to someone who will buy it.
 
I am having a problem with confusion. Jesus said you will know a tree by its fruits…a fine tree canot produced rotten fruit…and a rotten tree canot produce fine fruit.

So you try to see what a religion produces…and there is a scripture that say’s…
That there would be a group of people with a FORM of Godly devotion, but they would prove false to its power…and we are supposed to turn away from them.

But I have never seen a religion without a few bad apples.

Then there is that scripture that says, narrow is the road and cramped is the gate,and few are the ones finding it.

so basicly there would be people that would not stay on the straight and narrow.So that could explain wife swapping or inquisitions and things.

Anyway racism has definitely been a problem in america.And mormonism seems to have started in America…so is it a coincidence
that the old curse of cain or curse of ham (whoever people of darker skin supposedly came from)…
The curse just so happened to be taught by religions in america to be darker skin.

Ofcourse Catholics would not teach that, because there was a Church in africa already, and I guess It would not have gone over to well with the bishops there.

Im sure churches started in germany during hitler, thought that the curse was anyone not german.

Japanes people are normaly smart. There the curse could have been stupidness LOL.
 
excaliber said:
Ofcourse Catholics would not teach that, because there was a Church in africa already, and I guess It would not have gone over to well with the bishops there.
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The Church has never taught racist doctrines because 1) racism is a 100% man-made idea and 2) a product of the so-called “enlightenment”. Racism as we know it did not exist in those times. Christianity established itself in Africa within Apostolic times. There were, in fact, several African popes, and there probably would have been more had it not been for the spread of Islam in Africa.
 
ibkc said:
The Church has never taught racist doctrines because 1) racism is a 100% man-made idea and 2) a product of the so-called “enlightenment”. Racism as we know it did not exist in those times. Christianity established itself in Africa within Apostolic times. There were, in fact, several African popes, and there probably would have been more had it not been for the spread of Islam in Africa.
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What pope was an african pope?

True I have never seen a Catholic teaching that was racist. the hardest Catholic teaching is on having children…and I was told that it was not that big of a deal.

But yea what pope was african?
I would like to find information on him?
 
zerinus, that is a modern icon and it is about as accurate as European paintings which depict Jesus as a blue-eyed, blond-haired, pale-skinned baby. We don’t know what any of the early Popes looked like. The biggest point is that dark-skinned people were never denied the priesthood in the Catholic Church.
 
why_me said:
The lds church has a different system than the catholic church. They have no catechism as the catholic church does. If god is a living god, then he will give guidence and direction to each generation and dispensation. This is how the lds interpret their beliefs. Very little is etched in stone.
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This is the mistaken Mormon notion that a god who is alive must therefore be a god who changes things all the time depending on what generation he is dealing with. Mormons make a big effort to say that God is alive, as if the other churches somehow believe he is dead. We all believe that God is alive and active in the world. What we do not accept is the notion that God keeps reversing Himself as He seems to do within Mormonism.
During the early days, leaders said what they thought rather regularly. The lds church was small and every one knew each other rather well. There wasn’t much discipline when it came to speaking out or writing.
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That’s a bit of a problem, don’t you think? Joseph and Brigham stood up in the front of the church as the true prophets and taught certain falsehoods as truth. It doesn’t matter why. I keep saying this to you and you keep making the same excuses for them. I want to say this one last time as to be absolutely clear, because I don’t think you’re grasping the point here: **When someone who claims to be a true prophet of God leads his flock astray due to teaching falsehood, that man is not a true prophet at all. ** Now you can make all the excuses you want for Joseph, Brigham, and any of the others, but we still end up at the same place. True prophets are true prophets, and false prophets are false prophets.
Today it is much different. The system has changed. Today, there is more control on what the leaders publish and what is published by lds church publications.
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Clearly a necessary step since Mormon prophets and apostles have a demonstrated, and published, tendency to go off the deep end with doctrine.
And we need to remember most of the quotations by BY on this forum come from lds publications. They are not swept under a carpet.
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Good thing for us all, except that when we quote from said publications many Mormons either outright deny the authenticity or try to “sweep it under the rug” by claiming that the records themselves are unreliable. Haven’t you done that on this thread yourself?
 
zerinus said:
These are called “African Popes” because they originated from that continent; it does not mean that they were black Africans. Here is a picture of Pope miltiades:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/21/Pope_miltiades.jpg

Does he look very “African” to you?

zerinus
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Mabey he was mixed…LOL

Anyway…Im never going to find out how the mormons realy are if those missionaries don’t leave me alone for a second.

I talk to them before there service…then after there service…when do I get to see how
it is regularly.
 
excaliber said:
Mabey he was mixed…LOL

Anyway…Im never going to find out how the mormons realy are if those missionaries don’t leave me alone for a second.

I talk to them before there service…then after there service…when do I get to see how
it is regularly.
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I don’t know what you are asking. What makes you think that if the Missionaries were not talking to you, the service would be different from what it is otherwise? :confused:

If you want to talk to other Church members, there is nothing to stop you from doing that either.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I don’t know what you are asking. What makes you think that if the Missionaries were not talking to you, the service would be different from what it is otherwise? :confused:

If you want to talk to other Church members, there is nothing to stop you from doing that either.

zerinus
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Well everyone else is talkin and stuff, And Im there with missionaries the WHOLE time…every now and again you wana chat with someone not trying to convert ya.

Missionaries are cool, but what are regular members like…missionaries are trained to talk to ya, its different to talk to someone that is talkin just to talk…not trained to do so.
 
excaliber said:
Mabey he was mixed…LOL
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Was that picture taken with a Polaroid or a Nikon? 😃

What Mormons don’t understand is that, until the 16th century AD, race was an unknown concept. There is no mention in history, before the 16th century, of anyone ever commenting on the color of someone’s skin or their race. They commented on religious beliefs, nationality, language, dietary preferences, cultural customs, but never skin color. It was just not part of the consciousness of the ancients.

The concept of race was an invention of the Dutch Protestant slave traders. They justified ownership of Africans by saying that the Africans were sub-human. This concept was picked up by Protestants who supported the slave trade, and then to Protestants in general. The Mormons created complex doctrines based on the concept of race and attributed these 16th-century attitudes to Moses and Abraham.

I’m sure Moses and Abraham would not understand what the heck the Mormons are talking about. 🤷
 
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