Blacks: Did you know this, concerning racism?

[SpiritMeadow]

And your ‘obvious’ health’ reasons have been repeatedly refuted but the pro-anything goes community continues to turn a blind eye. Mainly Catholics, but not just Catholics. Those who truly want to stop AIDS and prevent pregnancies know the real way to get it done.

World’s Most Successful AIDS Prevention Programme in Uganda “Sabotaged” by Western “Experts”
Western advisors used their control of international funding to force a change in direction to condoms and casual sex

You seem more than willing to assume a lot of stuff. I am fully aware of abstinence. Perhaps you might like to look at the statistics there. Abstinence of course works perfectly, but the for fact that pesky humans simply refuse to use it, so it works NOT AT ALL in reality which is why most states are refusing the federal monies for it. They want stuff that works and that is full and complete sex education on all available ways of suppressing disease and unwanted pregnancy.

 

[RWMorris]

Forgive me Mary, but your list of presumptions must be refutted. I mean no disrespect, but the truth must prevail.

… in my opinion, to state that “God will provide” is naive, and presumptuous …

Your God must not be much of a God.

… God does not ‘provide’ for many good people on this planet. Many hungry people in this world are subject to the whims of despotic governments, depleted topsoil, poor precipitation, lack of economic activity, exploitation by multi-national corporations…

God does provide for all his people. Man, in his state of sin, corrupts God’s plan. Don’t blame God for our failures. Man has the right, as the CCC states, to overthrow despotic governments and change his plight on this earth. It may well mean that many will die, but that is the price we must pay for liberty.

Depleted topsoil? Man’s fault … can be reversed easily.

Poor precipitation? Misplaced adjective … it rains where it rains. That has always been a fact of life.

Lack of economic activity? … is a result of living, it happens wherever people live. True, the government can hinder that activity and if that hindrance becomes too oppressive, time to change governments.

Exploitation by multinational corporations? Not sure what you mean. Do you mean it is exploitation to actually have to work for a foreign company? Do you mean providing low paying jobs where there once was no jobs? I’m not sure what you mean.

The problem is that your litany requires a certain set of presumptions that I and many of us don’t share. I don’t mean to belittle your opinion, it is just that I don’t share your outlook on life. I’m an optimist, how can a Christian be anything else?

Your postings seem to lean toward justification for abortion and ABC, that those who are enlightened and more intelligent understand the need to limit their numbers for economic gain. And you are absolutely correct, placing limits on our numbers will result in economic gain, but at what price?

 

[FdeS2]

I, like many here, understand the evil that Margaret Sanger supported and thought up. I, too, dislike her views and actions. I also believe that it is important for all people to recognize the roots from which Planned Parenthood sprung, because a corporation with bad beginnings usually does not magically evolve into a just and correct organization.

Now, having said that, I would like to share a few pieces of evidence that Planned parenthood is still utterly horrible and evil:

Check 'em out… they’re not very long:

The first one is from the official Sarah’s Law website…

friendsofsarah.com/SecretTapes.aspx/

A similar link…

youtube.com/watch?v=zwif0VMW3c4/

Anyone think that Planned Parenthood is far from its roots?

Yours in Christ,
Daniel

 

[lovesMary]

My point in posting my thoughts is not to condemn those with large families, since I also have 4 children, and I so dislike scolding myself. But, statistically speaking, since the widespread usage of birth control and abortion started, Margaret Sanger’s goal of eugenically improving the human race, by stopping the less capable members of society from reproducing, has not occured. In fact, as I pointed out, demographic statistics support the fact that incapable, under-employed people from the underclass have larger families.

People here get awfully defensive. I’m not speaking about individuals on this message board, but general demographic trends.

Margaret Sanger was a part of the eugenics movement of the early 20th century. From this movement sprung the extremes of the Nazi movement. Their goal was to improve the human race from the genetic point of view, to be their ideal.

Yet since that time it has been statistically proven that people with more organized lives tend to use birth control to limit their family size much more effectively than uneducated, drug addicts and under employed single parents, who don’t have their acts together and susidize their incomes with handouts from the government.

 

[YADA]

No more of a threat than PPH poses to white folks or any other kind of folks. And the fact is that the majority apparently of all racial and ethnic varieties still find it a useful organization. Since most people on CAF agree that PPH is bad, there is little point in stating the obvious is there?

Really …

Why does PPH locate its facilities in minority neighborhoods?

Why does PPH sell condoms under their label in those minority neighborhoods that have higher failure rates? And price them cheaper than the other brands offered? … Could it be the money … job security

Why does PPH accept donations that ar specifically targeted for the killing of african american babes?

Why does PPH tell young girls to call back and not disclose their ages nor the ages of their BF … protecting rapists and violating the law?

Planned Parenthood is an evil organization that earns BLOOD MONEY … it does not matter if they abort minority children from women in poverty or non-minority children of rich women … evil is evil …

 

[Mea_Culpa]

No more of a threat than PPH poses to white folks or any other kind of folks. And the fact is that the majority apparently of all racial and ethnic varieties still find it a useful organization. Since most people on CAF agree that PPH is bad, there is little point in stating the obvious is there?

Planned Parenthood itself reports[18] that of the 132,314 abortions
it did in 1991, 23.2% were on African Americans, 12.5% were on
Hispanics, and 7% were on other minorities. Thus, the total
abortions on minorities is 42.7%. But minorities comprise only 19.7%
of the U.S. population.[19] Therefore, relative to population
Planned Parenthood preferred to abort minorities three times[20] as
much as whites.

ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/PPRACISM.TXT

There are more examples of how PPH is not a benevolent organization, and that the views of its founder live on in its practices today.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Really …

Why does PPH locate its facilities in minority neighborhoods?

Why does PPH sell condoms under their label in those minority neighborhoods that have higher failure rates? And price them cheaper than the other brands offered? … Could it be the money … job security

Why does PPH accept donations that ar specifically targeted for the killing of african american babes?

Why does PPH tell young girls to call back and not disclose their ages nor the ages of their BF … protecting rapists and violating the law?

Planned Parenthood is an evil organization that earns BLOOD MONEY … it does not matter if they abort minority children from women in poverty or non-minority children of rich women … evil is evil …

You have provided nothing but anecdotal evidence. Do you honestly think that PPH creates its own condoms to fail? Most of what you alude to is little more than urban legend. Clinics are usually located near where the poor can have easy assess. They often rely on public transportation to get to where they need to go. Your hatred blocks you from even discussing this at all fairly. I am so saddened when people spend so much time in hatred instead of addressing all the myriad issues of racism, poverty and other issues that affect the poor. Telling them to stop using abortion and contraception is not helpful to them in the least.

the fact remains that contraception is used by all demographics in the US except for a small minority of orthodox Catholics. I again, fail to see why spending time telling each other how horrid Sanger was helps anyone or anything.

 

[SpiritMeadow]

Planned Parenthood itself reports[18] that of the 132,314 abortions
it did in 1991, 23.2% were on African Americans, 12.5% were on
Hispanics, and 7% were on other minorities. Thus, the total
abortions on minorities is 42.7%. But minorities comprise only 19.7%
of the U.S. population.[19] Therefore, relative to population
Planned Parenthood preferred to abort minorities three times[20] as
much as whites.

ewtn.com/library/PROLIFE/PPRACISM.TXT

There are more examples of how PPH is not a benevolent organization, and that the views of its founder live on in its practices today.

I fail to see what about these statistics is of news to anyone or cause for concern. It is a well known fact that minorities and poor people in general use the least effect means of protection or none at all because THEY OFTEN CAN"T AFFORD IT. They don’t go to doctors because they don’t have insurance. They also die of heart disease and cancer at much higher rates than whites do. They suffer all the ills of the society to a greater extent that the rest of the population. They are way over represented in the prison population. Your statistics prove nothing. They certainly don’t prove that PPH is targeting African Americans in some sinister attempt to kill them off. You are simply marrying statistics to a institution you despise and claiming they are connected. They are not.

YOu can show nothing that proves that PPH goes out of its way to seek certain groups to perform abortions on. Like I said, hate them all you need to, but for goodness sakes make arguments that are based on Church teaching. This kind of argument if made in public places only reflect on the Church. They are so obviously false in their premise that you will be laughed at.

 

[Leebo]

I fail to see what about these statistics is of news to anyone or cause for concern. It is a well known fact that minorities and poor people in general use the least effect means of protection or none at all because THEY OFTEN CAN"T AFFORD IT. They don’t go to doctors because they don’t have insurance. They also die of heart disease and cancer at much higher rates than whites do. They suffer all the ills of the society to a greater extent that the rest of the population. They are way over represented in the prison population. Your statistics prove nothing. They certainly don’t prove that PPH is targeting African Americans in some sinister attempt to kill them off. You are simply marrying statistics to a institution you despise and claiming they are connected. They are not.

[SIGN]YOu can show nothing that proves that PPH goes out of its way to seek certain groups to perform abortions on.[/SIGN] Like I said, hate them all you need to, but for goodness sakes make arguments that are based on Church teaching. This kind of argument if made in public places only reflect on the Church. They are so obviously false in their premise that you will be laughed at.

Actually I think there has been plenty of evidence presented in this thread to support exactly that. Including it’s founders own words.

How is putting forth someones agenda largely in their own words hating them. I didn’t hear anyone here say they hated her, but they do hate abortion, which by the way is harmful to women who have them, but more importantly harmful to the children that are killed.

Are you saying your argument is based on Church teaching??

And these arguments would be laughed at in the public square only by a few media elites, even alot of left leaning politicians have to hold their noses to support PPH.

 

[YADA]

You have provided nothing but anecdotal evidence. Do you honestly think that PPH creates its own condoms to fail? Most of what you alude to is little more than urban legend. Clinics are usually located near where the poor can have easy assess. They often rely on public transportation to get to where they need to go. Your hatred blocks you from even discussing this at all fairly. I am so saddened when people spend so much time in hatred instead of addressing all the myriad issues of racism, poverty and other issues that affect the poor. Telling them to stop using abortion and contraception is not helpful to them in the least.

the fact remains that contraception is used by all demographics in the US except for a small minority of orthodox Catholics. I again, fail to see why spending time telling each other how horrid Sanger was helps anyone or anything.

condomdepot.com/reviews/magazines/reports.cfm

You will notice that 2 of the Condoms offered by Planned Parenthood rated POOR

crushliberalism.com/2008/03/16/planned-parenthood-busted-sure-your-donation-can-target-a-black-baby/

A donor wanted to make a donation but only for aborting an african amercian child … for racist and bigoted reasons clearly expressed by the caller …

palmettofamily.org/news/Fox%20News/SC%20Bill%20would%20require%20women%20to%20see%20ultrasound%20of%20fetus%20before%20abortion.pdf

Plannd Parenthood does not want expectant mothers to see that they are carrying a child and not a “BLOB”

childpredators.com/

The Planned Parenthood clinics in Kansaas are not any different than any other state … see Florida and California plus others for similar reports …

It is an absolute truth that Margaret Sanger wanted to prevent those deemed unworthy of reproducing … low inteligencec wrong race, wrong religion, disabled and wrong economic strata of society …

That is not anecdotal, not urban myth, Planned Parenthood is evil and so is abortion

 

[Starwynd]

Familliarity breeds contempt and I have nothing but contempt for this argument. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this argument. It’s a completely irrational and illogical argument.

 

[Leebo]

SpiritMeadow,

I have just went back and read several of you posts, to try and understand your point of view. I am still at a loss.

Are you saying that alot of Catholics aren’t really concerned with racism or plight of minorities and are just using Sangers racism to attack PPH? You may be partially right, though how do you know where the OPs heart truely lies? or other posters? Any how it doesn’t matter because the arguments being made against PPH and Sanger are valid and well documented.

If you think that Catholics aren’t doing enough to help minorities and or poor, or are causing harm to them, then by all means start a fresh thread. I will participate.

But you accused posters of not following Church teaching when you have made it clear that you have little if any problem with birth controll and abortion. Who is not following Church instruction?

 

[YADA]

Familliarity breeds contempt and I have nothing but contempt for this argument. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this argument. It’s a completely irrational and illogical argument.

So as a student of history you disregard the people and purposes behind organizations?

Th origins of organizations have no bearing on their operations?

The statistics that illustrate how they operate are of no import?

The moralty of the workers as illustrated by the political opposition to full disclosure [ultrasounds, etc], not reporting statutory rape and incest as required by law, and accepting money from donors who express racial animosity is not something you consider important or compelling?

What is it you study about history and how to you apply that knowledge?

 

[RWMorris]

Familliarity breeds contempt and I have nothing but contempt for this argument. I wish I had a dollar for every time I’ve heard this argument. It’s a completely irrational and illogical argument.

Yes, it is almost unfathomable that a man as eloquent as MLK could write such drivel.

 

[RWMorris]

So as a student of history you disregard the people and purposes behind organizations?

Th origins of organizations have no bearing on their operations?

The statistics that illustrate how they operate are of no import?

The moralty of the workers as illustrated by the political opposition to full disclosure [ultrasounds, etc], reporting statutory rape and incest as required by law, and accepting money from donors who express racial animosity is not something you consider important or compelling?

What is it you study about history and how to you apply that knowledge?

OK, I’m confused, I thought Starwynd was responding to this Post by Postmodern forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif. Help!?!?

 

[YADA]

OK, I’m confused, I thought Starwynd was responding to this Post by Postmodern forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_cad/viewpost.gif. Help!?!?

How would you relate post 72 to post 15?

Perhaps I am confused … but I never would have made a leap that far back in the posts and thought they were responding to the post immediatetly before it … which was mine

If I am wrong … I hope Sarwynd will forgive me …

 

[RWMorris]

How would you relate post 72 to post 15?
… If I am wrong … I hope Sarwynd will forgive me …

I was using the Threaded Display Mode to determine who Starwynd was responding to because it wasn’t entirely clear to me when I read the post. Unless Starwynd clears the air I guess we’ll both remain confused

 

[Philothea53]

You seem more than willing to assume a lot of stuff. I am fully aware of abstinence. Perhaps you might like to look at the statistics there. Abstinence of course works perfectly, but the for fact that pesky humans simply refuse to use it, so it works NOT AT ALL in reality which is why most states are refusing the federal monies for it. They want stuff that works and that is full and complete sex education on all available ways of suppressing disease and unwanted pregnancy.

By your answer I don’t believe you read the article. You are making arguments that are clearly refuted in the article. You spout facts and not once have you given any proof. Pew says so just isn’t quite enough.

 

[YADA]

I was using the Threaded Display Mode to determine who Starwynd was responding to because it wasn’t entirely clear to me when I read the post. Unless Starwynd clears the air I guess we’ll both remain confused

I see what you are saying … I have never used the Threaded display mode …

I learned something new today …

we are such creatures of habit … at least I am

 

[RWMorris]

… we are such creatures of habit … at least I am

My wife knows what you mean, she claims I am a creature of [bad] habits.