Blacks See Growing Values Gap Between Poor and Middle Class

[josephdavid]

I quote from the CCC

Three Duties of Government (2235-2237)
Authority must be exercised as a service. It is judged by its divine origin, its reasonable motive and its specific object. No authority can command anything which violates the dignity of the person or the natural law.

Authority must express a hierarchy of values which facilitate the exercise of freedom and responsibility. Authority must practice distributive justice which takes into account the needs of all and the contribution of each. These regulations must not satisfy personal interest over the community’s interest.

Political authorities must respect the fundamental rights of human persons and dispense justice humanely (especially toward families and the disadvantaged). The political rights attached to citizenship must be granted for the common good and cannot be suspended without legitimate reasons. Citizens must use these political rights for the common good.

Duties of Citizens (2238-2240)
Citizens should see authority figures as representatives of God. Loyal cooperation, however, includes the right to voice just criticism against what is harmful to persons or to the community.

Citizens must also contribute to the common good. This common good requires that a citizen fulfill his role in the community’s political life.

This co-responsibility means citizens must pay taxes, vote, and defend one’s country. “Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due” (Rom 13:7). “Christians obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws” (Letter to Diogneties).

Accepting Immigrants (2241)
To the extent that they are able, more prosperous nations must welcome foreigners who cannot find work in their own country. These foreigners must be safeguarded from harm.

Authorities are able to make this right to immigrate subject to various juridical conditions concerning the immigrant’s duties toward the host country. Immigrants must obey laws and contribute to their new country’s well being.

 

[onmywayagain]

JD, who’s fault is it for any teen girl getting pregnant? Explain to me how it is society’s fault? By what I read, you want the gov. to take responsibility for what happened. Society did not fail these children thier parents did. The school system has lunch programs for people who cant afford lunch. As far as schools being understaffed i would need to see the numbers. If it is about funding, how hard is it for a teacher to tell students, that if you have unprotected sex you can contract STD’s and/or get pregnant. How hard is that. How hard is it for parents to talk to thier own kids about sex? Parents a the primary edcuators of these children. Parental responsibility not society.

Why don’t you check the CCC and see what it says about the parents role and the childrens role in a Christian family.

How do you apply something that is teached by the Church, to institutions who want nothing to do with religion? Don’t we live in a country that wants to take God out of everything? The teachings of the Catholic Church can’t do anything to influence society or the Gov.

I thought as a country we accept immagrints? It is the illegal ones that we don’t want.

 

[josephdavid]

JD, who’s fault is it for any teen girl getting pregnant?

It is the girls fault, the boys fault, the parents fault, etc.

Explain to me how it is society’s fault? By what I read, you want the gov. to take responsibility for what happened.
Society did not fail these children thier parents did

.
You are missing the point. It is societies fault because we as a entire society are not parenting with values anymore. We as a society allow pornographic images of teenagers having sex on the television. The parents are part of society. Yes it starts at home but it is difficult for the parent at home when the child leaves the house and the rest of society is not living the same way.

The school system has lunch programs for people who cant afford lunch.

Just do a news search and you will find this is the case. local, state and federal government is cutting funding for these programs.

Why don’t you check the CCC and see what it says about the parents role and the childrens role in a Christian family.

I am fully aware what the CCC is for family responsibility. I was merely stating what the role of governments should be with in the CCC.

How do you apply something that is teached by the Church, to institutions who want nothing to do with religion? Don’t we live in a country that wants to take God out of everything? The teachings of the Catholic Church can’t do anything to influence society or the Gov.

I agree it is difficult especially when U.S. Constitution has laws seperating church and state.

 

[Al_Masetti]

Three not-at-all recondite rules for avoiding poverty:

1. Graduate from high school;
2. Don’t have a baby until you are married; and,
3. Don’t marry while you are a teenager.

Among people who obey those rules, poverty is minimal.

 

[josephdavid]

Three not-at-all recondite rules for avoiding poverty:

1. Graduate from high school;
2. Don’t have a baby until you are married; and,
3. Don’t marry while you are a teenager.

Among people who obey those rules, poverty is minimal.

I agree but do we then punish the children in the womb and born into this world because of mistakes were made? Are they to be punished because of their parents mistake? Are we to punish them because some one who makes millions a year wants to save every penny for him/herself?

 

[Al_Masetti]

I agree but do we then punish the children in the womb and born into this world because of mistakes were made? Are they to be punished because of their parents mistake? Are we to punish them because some one who makes millions a year wants to save every penny for him/herself?

Put the child up for adoption to a two-parent family and then “go and sin no more.” Get on with getting an education and a marriage to a reliable husband who also has an education and a reliable job.

 

[vern_humphrey]

I agree but do we then punish the children in the womb and born into this world because of mistakes were made? Are they to be punished because of their parents mistake?

That’s the old trap – we allow the children to be used as hostages. And when we do, it doesn’t staunch the torrent of out-of-wedlock pregnancies, high-school dropouts, and all the attendant evils – it makes it worse.

Are we to punish them because some one who makes millions a year wants to save every penny for him/herself?

Are we to punish them because some one who just as smart, just as healthy as the man who makes millions a year wants to take it easy and not contribute his share?

 

[josephdavid]

That’s the old trap – we allow the children to be used as hostages. And when we do, it doesn’t staunch the torrent of out-of-wedlock pregnancies, high-school dropouts, and all the attendant evils – it makes it worse.

Are we to punish them because some one who just as smart, just as healthy as the man who makes millions a year wants to take it easy and not contribute his share?

If you mean politicians using the poor for votes. I agree. One reason I am not Democrat. Many pander and say what the poor want to hear for votes.

So I guess we should all agree and forget that the government has no moral responsibility nor do individuals to help those who are not responsibile for the mess they are in. The children.

Are they really being punished? No. Will they beable to drive a car, have a home? yes

 

[Apryl]

Well a mother with no health care insurance should have thought twice about what would happen if she has sex and becomes pregnant. .

You are posting in anger.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If you mean politicians using the poor for votes. I agree. One reason I am not Democrat. Many pander and say what the poor want to hear for votes.

So I guess we should all agree and forget that the government has no moral responsibility nor do individuals to help those who are not responsibile for the mess they are in. The children.

Are they really being punished? No. Will they beable to drive a car, have a home? yes

I think we should adopt Moral Pragmatism – “If we are morally obliged to do something, we are morally obliged to do something that works.”

We can plot poverty rates in this country and see they were falling rapidly from the late '40s to the early '70s – when the Great Society programs took effect, and then the poverty rate leveled off. What we have done hasn’t worked – indeed it has made the problem of poverty more intransigent.

We have fallen into the trap of “I don’t need to help the poor. The government does that – with someone else’s dollars.” Helping the poor is now the goverment, or society’s problem – not our personal problem. So we don’t do much about it, personally.

 

[josephdavid]

I think we should adopt Moral Pragmatism – “If we are morally obliged to do something, we are morally obliged to do something that works.”

We can plot poverty rates in this country and see they were falling rapidly from the late '40s to the early '70s – when the Great Society programs took effect, and then the poverty rate leveled off. What we have done hasn’t worked – indeed it has made the problem of poverty more intransigent.

We have fallen into the trap of “I don’t need to help the poor. The government does that – with someone else’s dollars.” Helping the poor is now the goverment, or society’s problem – not our personal problem. So we don’t do much about it, personally.

Now here is were we agree. It should never be left up to just the government it is both society and governments responsibility. It should be a combined effort with solid planning and the right funding. But one with out the other and not both government and societies efforts we will continue to have this embarrassing poverty we have in this country. Our schools will continue to fall short against the rest of the world, and etc.

I agree with you fully. I think that is why most see failure because one side says let the government do it. One side says let society do it and one side just throws money at it with out a good plan or least a basis of a plan which can be modified to real conditions that change. OR there is the side that comes up with a plan then does not want to pay for it.

Its crazy and sad at the same time. Its the children who get left behind.

 

[vern_humphrey]

Now here is were we agree. It should never be left up to just the government it is both society and governments responsibility. It should be a combined effort with solid planning and the right funding. But one with out the other and not both government and societies efforts we will continue to have this embarrassing poverty we have in this country. Our schools will continue to fall short against the rest of the world, and etc.

I agree with you fully. I think that is why most see failure because one side says let the government do it. One side says let society do it and one side just throws money at it with out a good plan or least a basis of a plan which can be modified to real conditions that change. OR there is the side that comes up with a plan then does not want to pay for it.

Its crazy and sad at the same time. Its the children who get left behind.

The problem is, government has not done the things it is supposed to do (like be sure every child has a first-class, world quality education) and many of the things it has done are counter-productive.

I recommend reading The Glass Castle, by Jeanette Walls. Her family was the poorest family in Welch, West Virginia (her father was the town drunk.) Welch is the town President Kennedy selected when he handed out the first food stamps – it was arguably the poorest town in the country.

She recounts how, attending college in New York, the question of poverty was being discussed in class. She gave her opinion, opining, “I think sometimes people get the lives they want.”

She was immediately attacked by the professor who demanded, “What do you know about the hardships and obstacles the underclass face?”

Many people who pontificate about poverty think their imagination is superior to other people’s life experiences.

 

[onmywayagain]

You are posting in anger.

No. Just posting the truth.

 

[onmywayagain]

JD, you need to not include me with society then. I teach values to my kids. I monitor what my kids watch on TV and what they can see on the computer. If parents teach good values, there should be no worry of thier kids becoming inluenced by society.

JD i respect your opinions but this is going nowhere because we just have to different trains of thought. It was not my intention to make you see things my way, just voiceing my opinions. It was fun, but it is going in a circle.

God bless you and yours.

 

[josephdavid]

Many people who pontificate about poverty think their imagination is superior to other people’s life experiences.

In my case I can relate by my experiences of living in poverty as a child.

 

[josephdavid]

JD, you need to not include me with society then. I teach values to my kids. I monitor what my kids watch on TV and what they can see on the computer. If parents teach good values, there should be no worry of thier kids becoming inluenced by society.

JD i respect your opinions but this is going nowhere because we just have to different trains of thought. It was not my intention to make you see things my way, just voiceing my opinions. It was fun, but it is going in a circle.

God bless you and yours.

If all of society were parents like yourself the world perhaps would be better then.

And if this is the case perhaps you could use your energies to promote that outward to those who are not. Sadly children see what their parents are doing and are doomed only to repeat it.
Like a parent who looks at the world as the poor are a burden and a lesser class of people, their children tend to think the same.

 

[vern_humphrey]

If all of society were parents like yourself the world perhaps would be better then.

And if this is the case perhaps you could use your energies to promote that outward to those who are not. Sadly children see what their parents are doing and are doomed only to repeat it.
Like a parent who looks at the world as the poor are a burden and a lesser class of people, their children tend to think the same.

Similarly, a parent who looks at the world as a conspiracy and considers himself or herself a victim, and assumes no effort will pull one out of poverty produces children with the same outlook.

I once had the experience of speaking at a political rally, where I talked about programs for saving and investing. I was followed by a Democratic Party spokesmen who told the audience I was “insulting their intelligence” by telling them they were qualified to manage their own money.