Book of Enoch

[JohnT58]

This whole idea of Apocrypha facinates me. I have started studying my Bible again, going through the Old New Testaments with study guides and commentaries. It is clear Biblical scholars are familiar with these texts, and others such as Gospel of Thomas, Peter etc…
I have no intention of looking at these until I am through with the Bible but…
Is there anywhere reliable on the internet to find english translations of these texts.
I remember looking at Aramaic versions of the Our Father/Lords Prayer with some pretty whacky new age translations alongside, as usual you have to sift through the **** to get something reliable. Is there a reliable source for these online?

 

[NotWorthy]

Wrong?
And that supposed to refute what I said?

**Well, you simply haven’t addressed many of my questions, so don’t feel lonely there, brother. But in that regards, don’t worry… I now know what you meant by “so-called Church Fathers”, so you don’t need to tell me what you meant when you cut-and-pasted that reference the other day.

**

** OK…
No one will be “beamed up”, all who will remain alive will go through the great tribulation which your political organization that you call church, will be a major participant on its course. **

**The Catholic Church is only the very Church that Christ built, eh? So, if you choose to call the Bride of Christ a political organization, go ahead on.
**

** Brother?**

**Yes, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because I assumed you were a Christian. Evidently, this is something that you don’t do.
**

**Who is my brother?
Those who do the will of the father who is in heaven, not the one who calls himself father who is in the Vatican. **

**You’re talking about the Holy Father, our good Benedict? I love that man!!!

**

** And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.
(Matthew 23:9 KJV)**

Yeah, tell that to St. Paul, for he seemed to have the same problem. From his remarks, one can understand that Jesus was talking of something other than what you have concluded. Maybe it was the “Lording it over others” like that Pharisee’s were doing.

Our good Pope is simply following the edict that Jesus gave Benedict’s predecessor, St. Peter, when He said, "Feed my Lambs…Feed my Sheep… Tend my Flock… ". You see, he’s a part of the “Pillar and Bulwark of Truth”.

 

[NotWorthy]

**If you’re reasonable informed, how come is it that you’ve been deceived?
Have you ever sat down & read the whole bible; the KJV?**OK, is this a trick question. Do you mean, “Have you read the whole bible, or have you read only the KJV”? Because that is a lot clearer question.

**The bible gives us a set of rules of what not to do in which the pagans do.
The Catholic Church does exactly the opposite of what God told us not to do which are identifiable with pagan culture.
This is why for many centuries the Catholic leaders prohibited people from reading the bible, deeming them “not worthy”. **Your facts are a little skewed, there, brother. It seems you’ve been mis-guided by those that have an axe to grind against the Catholic Church.

Let me give you a hypothetical question, which may illustrate my point.

From what I’ve read of your posts, you don’t think any of the Catholic Bibles are legitimate. What would you do with all the Catholic Bibles in the world if you had your way?

 

[diggerdomer]

diggerdomer;6658653:

DMG888;6656072:

**The Bible says that the Word became flesh.
Jesus is the Word, & if you not going to believe in what is written there in, don’t bother calling yourself a Christian. A Christian is a follower of Christ.
Either you believe all that its written, or believe nothing!

You can’t pick & chose scripture. If you drink from a glass that is contaminated with urine, you can’t set aside the urine that its mixed in the water in order to drink the water that is clear. You can do 2 things. Not drink the glass, or drink it with all its contents. **

Wait…do Christians follow Christ, primarily, or the Bible? Which one?

 

[diggerdomer]

**If you’re reasonable informed, how come is it that you’ve been deceived?
Have you ever sat down & read the whole bible; the KJV?

The bible gives us a set of rules of what not to do in which the pagans do.
The Catholic Church does exactly the opposite of what God told us not to do which are identifiable with pagan culture.
This is why for many centuries the Catholic leaders prohibited people from reading the bible, deeming them “not worthy”.

Then the Catholic leaders decided to allow the people to read the bible, but first they had to edit it from the authentic line of texts called the Maseronic Texts (for the Old Testament), & the Textus Receptus (for the new testament).

This resulted in the creation of the Codex Vaticanus (for the Old Testament), & the Codex Sinaticus (for both testaments).
These are the texts they made in order to conform scripture to their doctrine. All newer bibles come from these line of texts, except the KJV.

Any church that does not carry or follow the KJV, does not have the Word of God, but the Words of men.
And who were these men?
Occultist Luciferians. The same people who publish these newer bibles & the same who publish the Satanic Bible, go research what I said.

**

“Maseronic”?

What the heck does that mean?

I think you might mean “Masoretic” but your typo (I presume) is about as sensible as the rest of your post.

You’re just simply anti-Catholic, right? Yes, or no? Please be honest.

I don’t mean to be rude, but so much of what you say seems so out of touch with what the Catholic Church believes and teaches, I just don’t know if you are sincerely wanting to learn more about the Catholic Church, or are just interested in attacking it (obviously based on faulty understanding).

Thanks for any clarification.

 

[NotWorthy]

You’re just simply anti-Catholic, right? Yes, or no? Please be honest.

I don’t mean to be rude, but so much of what you say seems so out of touch with what the Catholic Church believes and teaches,

What did Bishop Sheen say? “Only a 100 or so people hate the Catholic Church. But millions of people hate what they think the Catholic Church is”. (paraphrasing)

… I just don’t know if you are sincerely wanting to learn more about the Catholic Church, or are just interested in attacking it (obviously based on faulty understanding).Thanks for any clarification.

… as I stated earlier, I think the leopard has revealed his spots.

 

[DMG888]

**Well, you simply haven’t addressed many of my questions, so don’t feel lonely there, brother. But in that regards, don’t worry… I now know what you meant by “so-called Church Fathers”, so you don’t need to tell me what you meant when you cut-and-pasted that reference the other day.

****The Catholic Church is only the very Church that Christ built, eh? So, if you choose to call the Bride of Christ a political organization, go ahead on.
****Yes, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt because I assumed you were a Christian. Evidently, this is something that you don’t do.
****You’re talking about the Holy Father, our good Benedict? I love that man!!!

**Yeah, tell that to St. Paul, for he seemed to have the same problem. From his remarks, one can understand that Jesus was talking of something other than what you have concluded. Maybe it was the “Lording it over others” like that Pharisee’s were doing.

Our good Pope is simply following the edict that Jesus gave Benedict’s predecessor, St. Peter, when He said, "Feed my Lambs…Feed my Sheep… Tend my Flock… ". You see, he’s a part of the “Pillar and Bulwark of Truth”.

**Any one reading along & following this thread knows that, I’ve answered all of your questions, the problem is that you don’t like the answers. This gives you the pretext not to respond, but that’s OK, you wouldn’t know how. My information is irrefutable, specially by inexperienced apostates like yourself, who only believe the doctrine & traditions of men, rather than the Word of God.
& praise the Lord you consider me not Christian, prophecy is being fulfilled, where the truth Christians will be hated & persecuted by the apostate church, as already once happened under the inquisition. As it was, so it will be. **

 

[NotWorthy]

**Any one reading along & following this thread knows that, I’ve answered all of your questions, the problem is that you don’t like the answers. **

**No, my friend. I asked you several times what you meant by “so-called Church Fathers” in your cut-and-paste answers. You never once answered me. This is merely one example of the questions left unanswered.

**

**This gives you the pretext not to respond, but that’s OK, you wouldn’t know how. My information is irrefutable, specially by inexperienced apostates like yourself, who only believe the doctrine & traditions of men, rather than the Word of God.
& praise the Lord you consider me not Christian, **

**Hmmm… all throughout this thread, I’ve called you “Brother”. I do that because I consider you a Christian. You, on the other hand, have raised questions on whether I am Christian or not, simply because I profess to be Catholic.

---

It seems that you are the one being judgmental, however un-Christianlike that may be.**
**
I gotta admit, I love your "My information is irrefutable, specially by inexperienced apostates like yourself" comment. I mean, all you’ve done is cut-and-pasted someone else’s “un-biased research” without giving them the credit for their work. Plagiarism is not very christianlike, either.

**

**prophecy is being fulfilled, where the truth Christians will be hated & persecuted by the apostate church, as already once happened under the inquisition. As it was, so it will be. **

And which Church is being persecuted world-wide FAR MORE than any other Christian faith? The Catholic Church, my brother.

Your reference to the inquisition would be a great topic for another thread, but I’m not going to follow down that false rabbit trail. It seems you misunderstand the entire reason of the inquisition. But that’s understandable. There are enough anti-Catholic “researchers” who have spoon fed their lies to those that think they hate the Catholic Church, all the while ignoring that She is the Church that Christ built.

 

[DMG888]

No, my friend. I asked you several times what you meant by “so-called Church Fathers” in your cut-and-paste answers. You never once answered me. This is merely one example of the questions left unanswered.

The problem once again, is that you don’t know how to read & comprehend what its written, that’s seems to be the reoccurring case with you when it comes to the scriptures & when it comes to reading what I’ve been writing.
Go back & see how I wrote “founding fathers”. I wrote these words under parentheses, which means I’m questioning the term myself. So I don’t know what you wanted answered from me.

Hmmm… all throughout this thread, I’ve called you "Brother

". I do that because I consider you a Christian. You, on the other hand, have raised questions on whether I am Christian or not, simply because I profess to be Catholic.It seems that you are the one being judgmental, however un-Christianlike that may be.

Concerning calling me “brother”, you guys not only call non-brothers of your false religion system “brothers”, you also call father to people you shouldn’t be calling father.
…call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Matthew 23:9 KJV). Anyone who reads the bible would question your “Christianity” if you’re involved in a false religious system. I did not wrote the bible, so your issue its with God, not me. That’s why you should read the correct line of texts & research what I been telling you, if you care so much for the truth.

I gotta admit, I love your "

My information is irrefutable, specially by inexperienced apostates like yourself" comment. I mean, all you’ve done is cut-and-pasted someone else’s “un-biased research” without giving them the credit for their work.** Plagiarism is not very christianlike, either.**

**LOL, thank you for the complement, I have not copied & paste anything. This information is embedded in me from years of researching. Debating is something I frequently do online with many people of false religion systems, some would like to be called “denominations”, such as the 7th day Adventists. Firs of all, the word denomination its nowhere in scripture, a denomination is another man made tradition not based in scripture. **

And which Church is being persecuted world-wide FAR MORE than any other Christian faith? The Catholic Church, my brother.

**Oh Really?
Guess who wasn’t being persecuted during the years of the iron curtain in communist countries?
The Catholic & Orthodox churches who’s been always line up with the wicked governments of the world. Christians were told, that if they wanted to practice their religion, they would have to do it under a government approved organization.
Guess who the approved organization were?
The Catholic & Orthodox churches, any one else caught practicing Christianity outside these churches were tortured & killed.
I have family who lived in Romania during their communist years, & many others can testify of what I’ve been telling you. So speaking about the RCC its not persecution.
You have no idea what persecution is or means!
**

Your reference to the inquisition would be a great topic for another thread, but I’m not going to follow down that false rabbit trail. It seems you misunderstand the entire reason of the inquisition. But that’s understandable. There are enough anti-Catholic “researchers” who have spoon fed their lies to those that think they hate the Catholic Church, all the while ignoring that She is the Church that Christ built.

The topic here is Enoch too, but you derailed it & got us were we are. Now, you want to use the fact that this thread its not about the inquisition, as your excuse for not discussing it due to lack of knowledge. No one is stopping you discussing other topics here other than Enoch.

 

[NotWorthy]

The problem once again, is that you don’t know how to read & comprehend what its written, that’s seems to be the reoccurring case with you when it comes to the scriptures & when it comes to reading what I’ve been writing.
Go back & see how I wrote “founding fathers”. I wrote these words under parentheses, which means I’m questioning the term myself. So I don’t know what you wanted answered from me.

And you never clarified, other than “so-called Church Fathers”. Now, the question to me is, do I believe someone who has shown the wisdom to claim that “The Book of Enoch” was written by Enoch? Or do I believe the Disciples of the very Apostles themselves? Wow, that’s an easy one.

**Concerning calling me “brother”, you guys not only call non-brothers of your false religion system “brothers”, you also call father to people you shouldn’t be calling father. **

**And here it goes again. Judging me and other Catholics whom you don’t know. Jesus is going to wait til I’m dead before He judges me. I would appreciate it if you did the same.

Now, you have a right to question the act of the person calling our Pope, “Father”, and you can call that sinful. But don’t judge my love of Christ by the fact that I’ve let me Church mislead me into this false teaching.

You see, that’s what I use to determine someone as “brother”. Do they follow Christ, or at least do they profess to follow Christ.
**

** …call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. (Matthew 23:9 KJV).** Anyone who reads the bible would question your “Christianity” if you’re involved in a false religious system. I did not wrote the bible, so your issue its with God, not me. That’s why you should read the correct line of texts & research what I been telling you, if you care so much for the truth.

There are numerous threads on this. You can jump on those all day long.

**LOL, thank you for the complement, I have not copied & paste anything. This information is embedded in me from years of researching. Debating is something I frequently do online with many people of false religion systems, some would like to be called “denominations”, such as the 7th day Adventists. Firs of all, the word denomination its nowhere in scripture, a denomination is another man made tradition not based in scripture. **

Then you have done an admirable job of research. Its a shame you’ve done quite a bit of mis-research, as I’ll point out later in this post.

And yes, the word denomination is not in the bible. You see,it wasn’t necessary to have denominations until over 1000 years after the Birth of Christ’s Bride, the Church.

Oh Really?
Guess who wasn’t being persecuted during the years of the iron curtain in communist countries?
The Catholic & Orthodox churches who’s been always line up with the wicked governments of the world. Christians were told, that if they wanted to practice their religion, they would have to do it under a government approved organization.
Guess who the approved organization were?
The Catholic & Orthodox churches, any one else caught practicing Christianity outside these churches were tortured & killed.
I have family who lived in Romania during their communist years, & many others can testify of what I’ve been telling you. So speaking about the RCC its not persecution.
You have no idea what persecution is or means!

**If you believe that the Catholic Church hasn’t been persecuted by communist countries and other foreign regimes, then you reveal perfectly your mis-representation of the facts, either by your own research or by anecdotes. The Catholic Church has been persecuted by leaders who didn’t agree with them for 2000 years. It began with most of the first 30 popes being martyred by their faith and has continued since then.

**

The topic here is Enoch too, but you derailed it & got us were we are. Now, you want to use the fact that this thread its not about the inquisition, as your excuse for not discussing it due to lack of knowledge. No one is stopping you discussing other topics here other than Enoch.

Well, if you’ve noticed, I’ve mentioned that the topic of the thread was “Enoch” several times on this thread, so this too would seem like a red herring.

Good day, brother!

 

[DMG888]

I see that the forum completely delete some of my best detailed replies to you; complete with scripture that supports my case. I guess the truth hurts!

Its funny, how you keep trying to convince yourself that the RCC has been persecuted, when you don’t even know what persecution is. The RCC has always been in bed with the world’s political system, & is the world political system who has & will continue to do its persecution of the real Christians. He who is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. (James 4:4)

I’m not going to sit & argue with people who are anti truth & refuse to accept truth for what it is.
You can keep all your man made rituals & false doctrines you want. Unfortunately by the time you find out you’ve been deceit, you’ll be on the other side powerless to change your destine, which will be an eternity away from God, & rather into the presence of Satan & his angels.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

 

[diggerdomer]

I see that the forum completely delete some of my best detailed replies to you; complete with scripture that supports my case. I guess the truth hurts!

Its funny, how you keep trying to convince yourself that the RCC has been persecuted, when you don’t even know what persecution is. The RCC has always been in bed with the world’s political system, & is the world political system who has & will continue to do its persecution of the real Christians. He who is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. (James 4:4)

I’m not going to sit & argue with people who are anti truth & refuse to accept truth for what it is.
You can keep all your man made rituals & false doctrines you want. Unfortunately by the time you find out you’ve been deceit, you’ll be on the other side powerless to change your destine, which will be an eternity away from God, & rather into the presence of Satan & his angels.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

The Church was “in bed with” (to use your lamentable terms) Nero? Decius? Diocletian? etc.?

 

[NotWorthy]

I see that the forum completely delete some of my best detailed replies to you; complete with scripture that supports my case. I guess the truth hurts!

Its funny, how you keep trying to convince yourself that the RCC has been persecuted, when you don’t even know what persecution is. The RCC has always been in bed with the world’s political system, & is the world political system who has & will continue to do its persecution of the real Christians. He who is a friend of the world is an enemy of God. (James 4:4)

I’m not going to sit & argue with people who are anti truth & refuse to accept truth for what it is.
You can keep all your man made rituals & false doctrines you want. Unfortunately by the time you find out you’ve been deceit, you’ll be on the other side powerless to change your destine, which will be an eternity away from God, & rather into the presence of Satan & his angels.

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children. (Hosea 4:6 KJV)

I’m not aware of any deletions to your posts. The moderators will usually indicate that they snipped comments for being off-topic or uncharitable, but again, I haven’t seen any of these messages. You might receive a PM from them detailing what and why they did.

But, in regards to your “lack of persecution”, are you really not aware of it? Our priest studied recently with a fellow from China. He struck up a conversation with the good soul who revealed that, when he returned to China he would have to say Mass in secret and immediately would have a price over his head.

When he’s caught, he will be placed in prison and may be executed. This is not an uncommon phenomenon throughout totalitarian governments.

 

[loveleighbird]

In response to all of what DMG posted…
You do realize that this is a CATHOLIC forum, right? It doesnt exclude anyone not Catholic, but most people on here are looking for help from someone who can spiritually guide them with the Catholic faith.

You made many references to the KJV… Have you read the NAB version? That is the complete Bible. Plus, one is not supposed to be left to interpret the Bible by oneself. That is why we have the Church and Tradition to help guide us. Maybe an RCIA class or two might help you in your search to understand that Mary was a virgin and had no other children but Jesus. Brother was also meant to mean cousin back then. I think you would benefit from having some good theological discussions with some Catholic apologetics. God Bless you, and may you one day come to understand the Truth.

 

[heaven15]

dear DMG 888, you sound like a bitter and twisted ex-catholic who has come to this forum to “trip us up” over ANY awnser you might have been given. IF you were so bothered about the word of GOD you would not be condeming complete strangers to hell and satan as My Lord Jesus Christ taught us by example how to treat people with love and compassion. maybe this is a good time to contemplate your real motivation for coming onto this forum. because you are demonstrating one of the many ways we are persecuted.

 

[DMG888]

Thank you!
I’m non of the above you mentioned.

But I stand in good company with my Lord and savior Jesus Christ.
They also accused him of many false things just because he spoke the truth, and ultimately was killed for speaking out the truth of God.

He also said if they hate people like me, not to be surprised for they first hated him. Don’t expect people who follow Jesus to be popular or to be loved or accepted by the world.

So thank you for confirming that I am on the right path!

John 15:18-27

18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.

19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.

20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.

21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name’s sake, because they know not him that sent me.

 

[katholikos12]

Hey so anyone actually want to talk about the book of Enoch?

 

[heaven15]

dear DMG 888 not one person has expressed hate for you in fact it feels more the other way around. i am catholic and have returned to the church after 35 years away. i came back becuase despite any faults (which every human has) the church (in my mind) is still the way that Lord Jesus prescribed for us to reach him again. im sorry if i hurt or offended you, and the last thing id want to do is drive you away.Please accept my love and good wishes.

 

[ahs]

Hey so anyone actually want to talk about the book of Enoch?

My memory fails me and I’m ashamed that I have not taken the time to look this up…but weren’t there more than 1 and they were/still are part of the Ethopina Scriptures. I only skimmed over the information provided at the beginning of the thread…so maybe I missed something…

 

[ahs]

My memory fails me and I’m ashamed that I have not taken the time to look this up…but weren’t there more than 1 and they were/still are part of the Ethopina Scriptures. I only skimmed over the information provided at the beginning of the thread…so maybe I missed something…

Okay, I think I just answered my own question…the book of Enoch is listed in 5 parts (books) on New Advent. One semi-yet-not-too-often-reliable source (wiki) says that the Ethopian Orthodox include(d?) Enoch in their list of Scriptures.