Boris Johnson resigns over May's Brexit Plan

  • Thread starter Thread starter tomarin
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I’m no expert, I never claimed to be.

Really, it doesn’t take an expert to realize very quickly that the Remainers still have a lot of political power and we just saw it exercised in the last few days.
 
If you ever understood my user name, my icon photo or followed my posts, you would not have needed to ask that question.
 
I think those of us in the US don’t really understand the complexities and nuances of the EU/Britain relationship or divorce. I have a vague sense of it as explained to me by various Brits over the years and reading I have done. But there are big holes in my knowledge. My sense is that Cameron’s government and many Tories were Remain. This is where big business is, establishment, everything. Cameron never thought Brexit would win. He did not have a plan other than to resign. May came aboard as PM as kind of a compromise - preferred above the hard Brexiteers like Gove or Boris Johnson. A middle road. I am actually ok with that idea but what happened I think is May lost her way in the sense that the EU kind of screwed her over in the negotiations (Britain is essentially locked into EU regulations as before) and her Brexiteers such as Boris never really helped her to work out an alternative realistic plan - they just rode the wave of May talking to the EU seemingly pointlessly for what seems like years (months?) now. It is sad. They are saying no deal is as good as this deal May has come up with; Britain could lose a US trade deal. Who knows where this will end up. I don’t think the EU will last much longer if Merkel falls in the next year or so (some say this autumn she’s gone). Macron is also dropping in the polls as French presidents always do. The idea behind the EU is more fragile than the idea of an independent Britain and independent European states. This dissolution of the EU will happen I think in time organically. But the EU organization will fight long and hard for its life and power, no worries there.
 
Last edited:
FollowChrist34 said:
I think those of us in the US don’t really understand the complexities and nuances of the EU/Britain relationship or divorce. I have a vague sense of it as explained to me by various Brits over the years and reading I have done. But there are big holes in my knowledge. My sense is that Cameron’s government and many Tories were Remain. This is where big business is, establishment, everything.
Click to expand...
And don’t forget Margaret Thatcher.

I always felt Boris, Farage et al should be put in charge of Brexit (you Brexit you buy it); instead they slinked away or in Boris’s case was put in the cabinet so May could keep an eye on him (just my opinion). I feel like they made a lot of unrealistic promises and someone else was left to deliver them and/or deal with the resulting unexpected consequences (northern Ireland, for example).
 
Last edited:
tomarin said:
I always felt Boris, Farage et al should be put in charge of Brexit (you Brexit you buy it); instead they slinked away or in Boris’s case was put in the cabinet so May could keep an eye on him (just my opinion)
Click to expand...
I completely agree with you about Farage/Johnson. I think he was put into the cabinet to balance out leavers and remainers and so May could try to keep him under control. Unfortunately (and perhaps obviously) that backfired and it ended up with May looking weaker with the statements he made clearly contradicting her position but not being fired for it. Now he is in a perfect position to shout from the sidelines, which is what I think May wanted to avoid this whole time.

Re Northern Ireland, how appalling is it that seemingly no-one stopped to think about it. There’s currently a whole host of problems in Northern Ireland, partly because they don’t have a government. There’s worry that if there is a hard border NI will not have enough power, for example. And there is no plan for this. No one in government seems to care, or even be aware. All the Conservatives are doing are deepening the splits in the party and refusing to compromise. Watch tomorrow - that’s when the White Paper outlining the UK’s ideas is published. After the EU deadline and with ideas no one is happy with.
 
Lou2U said:
I completely agree with you about Farage/Johnson. I think he was put into the cabinet to balance out leavers and remainers and so May could try to keep him under control. Unfortunately (and perhaps obviously) that backfired and it ended up with May looking weaker with the statements he made clearly contradicting her position but not being fired for it. Now he is in a perfect position to shout from the sidelines, which is what I think May wanted to avoid this whole time.

Re Northern Ireland, how appalling is it that seemingly no-one stopped to think about it. There’s currently a whole host of problems in Northern Ireland, partly because they don’t have a government. There’s worry that if there is a hard border NI will not have enough power, for example. And there is no plan for this. No one in government seems to care, or even be aware. All the Conservatives are doing are deepening the splits in the party and refusing to compromise. Watch tomorrow - that’s when the White Paper outlining the UK’s ideas is published. After the EU deadline and with ideas no one is happy with.
Click to expand...
I can’t wait! It takes my mind off all of the intractable problems we have here.
 
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
different Americans have different opinions
 
Last edited:
Kaninchen said:
Indeed, there are Americans who don’t want to dictate to us.
Click to expand...
There are Americans who are worried that Britain is setting a dangerous precedent in many of its current policies, particularly as regards the police being turned into a wing of the government too busy cracking down on thought-crime to actually do anything about rape gangs and knife murders.

You certainly don’t have to listen to that, but as an American, I see you Brits, who we here generally hold in high and dear regard as our truest allies in the world, losing most if not all of your personal freedoms.

Take from that what you will.
 
Raxus said:
Take from that what you will.
Click to expand...
In my very many years on CAF (over a decade), I’ve never commented on what you Americans do with yourselves, I truly don’t care, I didn’t when I lived in the US, I don’t now.

Neither do I have the faintest interest whatsoever in what American Conservatives say or think, so I won’t be taking anything from ‘that’ or discussing anything you say. It has no significance.
 
Kaninchen said:
In my very many years on CAF (over a decade), I’ve never commented on what you Americans do with yourselves, I truly don’t care, I didn’t when I lived in the US, I don’t now.
Click to expand...
Ok.
Kaninchen said:
Neither do I have the faintest interest whatsoever in what American Conservatives say or think, so I won’t be taking anything from ‘that’ or discussing anything you say. It has no significance.
Click to expand...
Actually, what you took away is that my words have no significance based on what you assume my political stance to be. I don’t identify as right or left, but as Catholic, which focuses on things that both major parties here in the U.S. espouse, like right to life for the conservatives and help for the poor for the liberals.

I think your words smack of a rather grotesque form of tribalism that only hurts you in the end, not me.

In any event, I wish the best for Britain.
 
May Faces Political Crisis as Poll Shows Just 12% Support Her Brexit Plan

Surprised no one caught this one. First, the EU hinted that even May’s adulterated Brexit plan won’t be good enough for them. That came from Michael Barnier, the EU’s chief Brexit negotiator in a press conference on Friday. So they’re essentially demanding that May abase herself further from a position for which she has already lost her political support back home.

I think this was all part of the strategy between the Remainers and the EU to slow walk the Brexit process so much that it essentially becomes moot over a long enough period of time. So May issues a plan to slow walk, the EU rejects the plan, May makes revisions to slow walk it even more, the EU rejects that too. And so on. Except now it’s backfiring due to May losing her political support.

The only reason May is still the PM is that the Remainers within the Tories retain a lot of power and they’re probably doing everything they can behind the scenes to prevent Boris Johnson or another Leaver from becoming PM. So we will continue to see the drama playing out.

A no deal outcome would be chaotic in the UK, but the overall effect could be worse on the EU on a number of fronts. First, the UK has a large trade deficit with the EU so the EU would be hurt worse in goods trading. Second, the UK would be under no obligation to make a £39b “divorce” payment to the EU. Third, the share of UK GDP based on EU trade is declining while the share based on non-EU trade is rising and is in surplus. Fourth, the UK would be under WTO rules and would be free to make its own trade deals with other countries. Fifth, the UK would regain complete control of its own migration policy. And last, but not least, the really bad part for the EU, the political precedent will have been set for other countries contemplating an exit.

On the downside for the UK, some of their own exports could be hit hard, the Ireland and Northern Ireland border will be a huge issue, the fate of the EU nationals living and working in the UK and the UK nationals living and working in the EU will have to be determined, there will be disruption of the banking industry. On the whole, I still think the UK is better off outside of the EU than inside due to the EU’s ongoing problems.
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top