Boston bomber angry at the U.S

[Lapey]

Do you remember the story about the miracle of the loaves and fishes? A priest once explained to me that people nearly always carried food with them, but it was impolite to take our food and eat in front of someone else without sharing. In addition, if someone offered you food, it was impolite not to share what you had - even if it was in your cloak. Everyone was afraid to take out their own food, otherwise they would have to share. So when the loaves and fishes were distributed, all the food came out. Jesus brought out what everyone had to share. The miracle was the lesson - we all have the good within us to share, and we will do so when someone starts the process.

I understand your point here, but this is very bad theology. None of this is supported in scripture. I’ve heard this from one priest as well and he too went too far out on the limb. Stick to the text, to do otherwise diminishes somewhat the majesty of the miracle Jesus worked.

 

[livingwordunity]

I for one will make sure to try to assuage any percieved injustice, no matter how outlandish.



The fact that these two accepted refugee status in the US, citizenship, free schooling, and various forms of public assistance, all while whining about the US being “unfair” to Muslims only highlights delusional beliefs these two had.

Liberals are always saying that Muslims get treated unfairly. I wonder if they believe that this confirms it.

 

[ishii]

It is truly to be expected, but part of making sense of what appears to be a senseless act is knowing that these two children (I am referring to a spiritual maturity) were angry at the U.S. in general.

cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57581278/officials-u.s-wars-against-muslims-triggered-suspects/

As much as our Muslim friends encourage peace and “returning evil with good”, the human compulsion is for justice, and the two involved sought carrying out justice in their own way. Like all condemnation, the boys’ condemnation of America blocked their empathy toward its people. They were blind to the humanity of their victims.

I am energized to do something. Our secular society does not have the answers for this problem, but religions do. All major religions emphasize forgiveness, but all followers forget to forgive. If the boys were acting out of anger, which it sounds like they were, they had neglected to forgive.

This is not a Muslim problem but a human problem. We all need to join hands and work together to encourage forgiveness, for it is truly the path to peace. We owe it to the victims of the Boston bombing to forgive all of our enemies. And let us remember - it is our calling to do so.

We all get angry, judge, condemn, and hate compulsively, automatically. We are slaves to our nature. To forgive, we have to will to forgive!

Hello Onesheep. A couple of points: the bombers were here in America for many years and were educated in America. So one could say that they either were a product of the modern liberal American public education system, or at the least, that the modern public education system did not give them many reasons to like America or counter the views of those who were trying to brainwash them into becoming terrorists. What a far cry from the immigrants from Asia and Europe of the past who ended up being among the most patriotic Americans. The Japanese, for example had their families sent to internment camps and they still managed to produced the most decorated units of WW2! The difference I think is the society they grew up in (and education system) compared to now. In the past, immigrants came to America and the education system reinforced the idea that America, while not perfect, was a great country that everyone was lucky to be living in. Unfortunately, now - we seem to have a view of America that is very negative. Our education system emphasizes the injustices and negative things about America. Were the two bombers the product of this education system? What made them so easy to corrupt? Did their experience and education reinforce the idea of America as a great country or reinforce the idea of America as a country that does bad around the world - particularly in the middeast? I think these are valid questions. Of course, the America of the past was more wholesome and wasn’t so decadent and immoral as it is now - in terms of the culture anyway.

As for forgiveness, I agree with what you’re saying. But while we must forgive, we must also protect ourselves agains future attacks.

Ishii

 

[SuperLuigi]

I for one will make sure to try to assuage any percieved injustice, no matter how outlandish.



The fact that these two accepted refugee status in the US, citizenship, free schooling, and various forms of public assistance, all while whining about the US being “unfair” to Muslims only highlights delusional beliefs these two had.

Which is EXACTLY what can happen when you give people freebies. They don’t appreciate where it comes from because they don’t have to work to get it.

I’ll wait for the “help the poor” crowd here on CAF to try and twist that with progressive logic.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Liberals are always saying that Muslims get treated unfairly. I wonder if they believe that this confirms it.

Being a conservative Muslim man of non-white origin is the new pinnacle of the mountain of victimhood of the left.

Even gay rights and feminism must defer to them.

 

[Darryl1958]

People who would do the thing that these bombers did are evil to the core.

It should come as no surprise to anyone that evil people hate America, all that it is, and all that is stands for.
for people who love evil, America is the country to express their hatred against.

 

[ishii]

I for one will make sure to try to assuage any percieved injustice, no matter how outlandish.



The fact that these two accepted refugee status in the US, citizenship, free schooling, and various forms of public assistance, all while whining about the US being “unfair” to Muslims only highlights delusional beliefs these two had.

I have a different take - and that is that the public education system perhaps contributed to an anti-American bias or at best, didn’t instill an appreciation for the great opportunities America offers everyone. Also, the belief among Islam that America is evil, etc. is perhaps more easily instilled in impressionable young people when one considers how decadent and degraded our culture is now. Not justifying the response by radical Islam, but look at where our culture is at.

Ishii

 

[TEPO]

I have a different take - and that is that the public education system perhaps contributed to an anti-American bias or at best, didn’t instill an appreciation for the great opportunities America offers everyone. Also, the belief among Islam that America is evil, etc. is perhaps more easily instilled in impressionable young people when one considers how decadent and degraded our culture is now. Not justifying the response by radical Islam, but look at where our culture is at.

Ishii

I agree in part with what you said, but disagree that it’s the public education system- I think it’s the whole entire modern education system as a whole. I believe that in our multi-cultural society, schools should be segregated in order to preserve culture rather than destroy it through integration. Through the destruction of ‘traditional’ culture breeds the highly progressive and hyper biased ‘pop-culture’, which is a manufactured culture which hasn’t ever actually proved to be beneficial since its conception in the 1960’s. This ‘pop-culture’ has infected all schools including Catholic ones.

The modern ‘pop-culture’ was first conceived during the Vietnam war as a ‘common’ goal within different cultures in America and became the beginning of modern progressivism as a whole which has spread throughout the entire ‘Western’ world.

If Muslim Arabs had the option to attend schools based on their culture, then they could have had the chance to get their hatred for America purged through discussion with trained teachers from their own culture… They wouldn’t have all this ‘bottled-up’ discontent with no way of expressing it other than through violence.

…in the same way, other cultures could benefit from this by eliminating the huge, mega-highschools and replacing them with many smaller schools. Extra curricular activities like sports could be integrated with other schools of any culture in order to engage in real world type events, but education itself needs to be made more accurate to each individual and his or her culture.

Besides, both the USCCB and the UN support the preservation of “culture”. so should we all.

 

[TEPO]

Being a conservative Muslim man of non-white origin is the new pinnacle of the mountain of victimhood of the left.

Even gay rights and feminism must defer to them.

…because of Popular Culture, which breeds within the school system by general Pop-Culture teachers who are trained by a pop-culture system.

We can all still be Americans together living out our own culture with a common language in unity without merging all ideologies into one big mess as long as we all learn to respect each other as human beings, which comes naturally to us all anyways.

 

[ishii]

I agree in part with what you said, but disagree that it’s the public education system- I think it’s the whole entire modern education system as a whole. I believe that in our multi-cultural society, schools should be segregated in order to preserve culture rather than destroy it through integration. Through the destruction of ‘traditional’ culture breeds the highly progressive and hyper biased ‘pop-culture’, which is a manufactured culture which hasn’t ever actually proved to be beneficial since its conception in the 1960’s. This ‘pop-culture’ has infected all schools including Catholic ones.

The modern ‘pop-culture’ was first conceived during the Vietnam war as a ‘common’ goal within different cultures in America and became the beginning of modern progressivism as a whole which has spread throughout the entire ‘Western’ world.

If Muslim Arabs had the option to attend schools based on their culture, then they could have had the chance to get their hatred for America purged through discussion with trained teachers from their own culture… They wouldn’t have all this ‘bottled-up’ discontent with no way of expressing it other than through violence.

…in the same way, other cultures could benefit from this by eliminating the huge, mega-highschools and replacing them with many smaller schools. Extra curricular activities like sports could be integrated with other schools of any culture in order to engage in real world type events, but education itself needs to be made more accurate to each individual and his or her culture.

Besides, both the USCCB and the UN support the preservation of “culture”. so should we all.

Hello TEPO, intersting post, but I have some questions:

Wouldn’t that create a “balkanization” of America ? In other words, we’d end up with a country that is framented into all these cultures and what would keep them from eventually being hostile to each other? Also, how would these Muslim schools not end up like breeding grounds for hostility toward America? Who would be teaching at these schools? What you’re prescribing sounds like a recipe for division and possible hostility down the road between separate groups that were educated by their own people. What does “education needs to be made more accurate to each individual and his or her culture” mean?

I agree with the value of preserving one’s culture - would it not be more appropriate for that to happen at the home rather than at school? And don’t we want all American citizens to have a basic understanding and belief in the value of the American system - freedom, democracy, etc. and the founding fathers, constitution? I have my doubts about the ability of schools ran by Muslims in American to instill appreciation for the American values and institutions of this country.

I think the foundation for the pop culture was around before Vietnam - the TV and radio are what sort of started this mass-pop culture that pervades the Western world now. And that probably started in the 50’s. In the beginning you had Elvis on the radio and the Honeymooners and I love Lucy on TV. Now you have Lady Gaga on the radio and the Kardashians on every magazine, and a show called “wife swapping”. I can understand a foreign culture/religion that would look at the pop culture in America and conclude that it is a poison to be avoided.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

…because of Popular Culture, which breeds within the school system by general Pop-Culture teachers who are trained by a pop-culture system.

We can all still be Americans together living out our own culture with a common language in unity without merging all ideologies into one big mess as long as we all learn to respect each other as human beings, which comes naturally to us all anyways.

Merely having a common language is not enough. As Americans, we need to have an understanding and appreciation for the values and institutions that our country was founded upon. What good is a school full of English speaking muslims if they don’t have and understanding and appreciation for the basic tenets and principles of the founding fathers, etc. Do our schools today teach an American history that focuses on victims, injustice and “oppression” such that young people who graduate from these schools just do not have an appreciation for American constitutional republican values? (note the small “r” ) .

Ishii

 

[jmcrae]

I agree in part with what you said, but disagree that it’s the public education system- I think it’s the whole entire modern education system as a whole. I believe that in our multi-cultural society, schools should be segregated in order to preserve culture rather than destroy it through integration. Through the destruction of ‘traditional’ culture breeds the highly progressive and hyper biased ‘pop-culture’, which is a manufactured culture which hasn’t ever actually proved to be beneficial since its conception in the 1960’s. This ‘pop-culture’ has infected all schools including Catholic ones.

I disagree; I think that cultural and religious education need to take place in the home and church/synagogue/temple/ashram - all the children in the neighborhood should go to their neighborhood school together, and learn from each other. (I also think that schools need to be within walking distance of the children’s homes.) I would also say, don’t ban prayer or discussions about God from the school - instead, open it up wide, and let every child pray in his or her own way, and freely exchange ideas among themselves, both in and out of the classroom.

Families can teach and reinforce their languages, cultures and religions at home. Children can take religious education classes at their place of worship, with the leaders of their faith communities, rather than rely on school teachers who may or may not have other agendas.

 

[TEPO]

Merely having a common language is not enough. As Americans, we need to have an understanding and appreciation for the values and institutions that our country was founded upon. What good is a school full of English speaking muslims if they don’t have and understanding and appreciation for the basic tenets and principles of the founding fathers, etc. Do our schools today teach an American history that focuses on victims, injustice and “oppression” such that young people who graduate from these schools just do not have an appreciation for American constitutional republican values? (note the small “r” ) .

Ishii

Every school would still need to meet federal reviews, and teachers who taught jihadist mentality would be imprisoned for treason.

Constitutional republican values would continue as they are and peace would result due to common appreciation of other cultures… Pop-culture will have been completely extracted and cultural VARIETY would take its place entirely.

Every school would be specifically designed toward a particular principle, some cultural, some ethnic, some religious and others geared toward a combination, no two being exactly the same… Nobody would be ‘forced’ to attend any particular one, but parents would choose whichever one they thought best represented their family culture/goals.

 

[TEPO]

I disagree; I think that cultural and religious education need to take place in the home and church/synagogue/temple/ashram - all the children in the neighborhood should go to their neighborhood school together, and learn from each other. (I also think that schools need to be within walking distance of the children’s homes.) I would also say, don’t ban prayer or discussions about God from the school - instead, open it up wide, and let every child pray in his or her own way, and freely exchange ideas among themselves, both in and out of the classroom.

Families can teach and reinforce their languages, cultures and religions at home. Children can take religious education classes at their place of worship, with the leaders of their faith communities, rather than rely on school teachers who may or may not have other agendas.

I’m not sure if this would cause more or less conflict, I’m thinking more.

 

[TEPO]

Hello TEPO, intersting post, but I have some questions:

Wouldn’t that create a “balkanization” of America ? In other words, we’d end up with a country that is framented into all these cultures and what would keep them from eventually being hostile to each other? Also, how would these Muslim schools not end up like breeding grounds for hostility toward America? Who would be teaching at these schools? What you’re prescribing sounds like a recipe for division and possible hostility down the road between separate groups that were educated by their own people. What does “education needs to be made more accurate to each individual and his or her culture” mean?

I agree with the value of preserving one’s culture - would it not be more appropriate for that to happen at the home rather than at school? And don’t we want all American citizens to have a basic understanding and belief in the value of the American system - freedom, democracy, etc. and the founding fathers, constitution? I have my doubts about the ability of schools ran by Muslims in American to instill appreciation for the American values and institutions of this country.

I think the foundation for the pop culture was around before Vietnam - the TV and radio are what sort of started this mass-pop culture that pervades the Western world now. And that probably started in the 50’s. In the beginning you had Elvis on the radio and the Honeymooners and I love Lucy on TV. Now you have Lady Gaga on the radio and the Kardashians on every magazine, and a show called “wife swapping”. I can understand a foreign culture/religion that would look at the pop culture in America and conclude that it is a poison to be avoided.

Ishii

I just posted this on another thread but it also applies here in that you might see exactly where I’m coming from a little more clearly.

"

TEPO:

I’m just not sure if direct exposure to other cultures equals more tolerance or not. I’m sort of in the mindset that all cultures are naturally accepting of all other cultures. I think that maybe through integration, and after time, there becomes ‘stress points’ when sentiments of our original cultural upbringings collide with the Popular Culture. After generations of stress there develops an inner-cultural battle that develops where remnants of our original cultures struggle for control of pop-culture… Even after many generations of integration! But nobody ever becomes satisfied because the pop-culture is a completely fabricated combination of everything to the point that it means nothing to anyone. Everyone is left at the end of the day with broken dreams due to an illusionary life based on reaching pop-cultures materialistic end. By the time we figure this out, we are then fed ‘adult-pop-culture’ which is the political gridlock scheme, where we become entangled in one of two possible choices -liberalism or Conservativism, which is another fabricated media based illusion, all of which is orchestrated on the idea of maintaining the status quo… Like a revolving door.

Religion then becomes sucked into the vacuum by standing each one up against the other, as if its one good for all or nothing for anyone. Each one must face the Pop-Culture look-alike test to see if it qualifies as ‘Melting Pot’ quality.

To me, the Melting Pot theology of progressivism serves a disservice to mankind. We’re all up against each other struggling to win control over the all powerful sphere of ‘pop-culture’ and the battle never ends. Worse than it never ending is the fact that it is not attainable since it doesn’t actually exist. There is no American Culture.

"

 

[jmcrae]

I’m not sure if this would cause more or less conflict, I’m thinking more.

By interacting with one another from an early age, they would learn that each other are normal human beings just like themselves.

 

[TEPO]

By interacting with one another from an early age, they would learn that each other are normal human beings just like themselves.

I know we’ve all heard that… I’m just beginning to believe that it is a lie.

…I think that it’s possible that all cultures, by nature, have great respect for one another because of their differences, and learning about these differences makes us curious and proud of them. I believe it’s actually when we encounter negative events with other cultures when we’re young, or are taught when we’re young bad things, that they stick with us the rest of our lives.

If we encountered other cultures first hand at a more mature age, I think there might develop a stronger and more mature relationship thus creating an unbiased bond.

 

[jmcrae]

I know we’ve all heard that… I’m just beginning to believe that it is a lie.

…I think that it’s possible that all cultures, by nature, have great respect for one another because of their differences, and learning about these differences makes us curious and proud of them. I believe it’s actually when we encounter negative events with other cultures when we’re young, or are taught when we’re young bad things, that they stick with us the rest of our lives.

How would going to school together create negative events?

I went to public school when I was a kid, and I still get along well with Jews and Christians of every denomination. People whose religions forbade them from coming to school with us remained a mystery until adulthood, and I even now continue to think of them as “other” or “not us.”

 

[TEPO]

How would going to school together create negative events?

I went to public school when I was a kid, and I still get along well with Jews and Christians of every denomination. People whose religions forbade them from coming to school with us remained a mystery until adulthood, and I even now continue to think of them as “other” or “not us.”

Going to big schools together forces everyone to either blend or battle… Pop-culture wins and you become a product of that culture.

With many small schools, people are forced to know many different types of people outside the confines of pop-culture, and then continue to grow socially in a multicultural society.

 

[ishii]

I just posted this on another thread but it also applies here in that you might see exactly where I’m coming from a little more clearly.

“”

Thanks for the explanation. It just seems counter intuitive to think that if people are educated in their own culture and their own people during their formative years - that somehow they will come together with everyone else afterwards and mutually respect and tolerate/understand other cultures more than if they were together with other cultures from the beginning in school. Is there an example where this has been tried?

And pop culture will remain as long as the internet, radio, tv, Hollywood, movies, etc. and the corporate pop culture that flourishes in our consumerist free-market economy.

I can think of an example of where integration and assimilation was a good thing: In the 20’s-30’s, sons of Japanese immigrants went to schools with other cultures/ethnic groups and instead of sympathizing with the Japanese empire, they fought for American and became the most decorated soldiers in the war.

Ishii