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RobertAdams
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Hello Hodos, I don’t own or operate a seminary system.
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Boston University Catholic chaplain forced out of his position after email to Catholics there suggesting that the killing of George Floyd was not an a
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Hodos
Guest
Clearly…Hello Hodos, I don’t own or operate a seminary system.
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RobertAdams
Guest
Thank you poster Hodos, I always strive for clarity.
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Sarcelle
Guest
Where did I make the accusation?If not, you don’t have the right to make the accusation.
This is why I used the word “may” as in there is a possibility but it’s not certain.
I also used the statement that Chauvin is the only one who knows his own motivation.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
PERHAPS if the author were Mr Floyd’s confessor, he could make such a claim (however, the seal of confession would come into play). What an unkind thing to say about someone, how is this going to show Christ’s love to the world?He noted that Floyd should not have been killed but “had not lived a virtuous life.”
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KMC
Guest
You have succinctly summarized the problem in the US (and the world). The problem is the definition of “racism.”
So when someone is called a “racist,” with no qualifier in front of it, what do you suppose the definition is?But there is another type of racism, implicit racism. And in that sense, we are ALL racists.
A political pundit during the Obama years said “If you don’t vote for Obama, then you’re a racist.”
Nowadays, asking questions or not aligning 100% with the BLM positions can get you labeled a racist.
Lets just say “bias” is a better word and leave it at that.
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goout
Guest
Very typical of our culture that even in death a man can’t be recognized for what he is: a human being.
He is both judged by a comparative lack of virtue
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held up as a the object of martyrdom and the model for a cause.
Can’t the man just be recognized as a human being with flaws and virtues like everyone else?
Recognizing humanity seems to be a hard thing these days.
He is both judged by a comparative lack of virtue
and
held up as a the object of martyrdom and the model for a cause.
Can’t the man just be recognized as a human being with flaws and virtues like everyone else?
Recognizing humanity seems to be a hard thing these days.
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1Lord1Faith
Guest
You are describing something called implicit bias. An explicit bias for a particular ethnicity or culture is called ethnocentrism. Neither necessarily involve racism.But there is another type of racism, implicit racism. And in that sense, we are ALL racists. We prefer our own ethnic group (or even sub-group–proud to be English, but even prouder to be from Liverpool). This is natural and not evil in itself.
We know what racism is, and when people try to redefine racism as something it’s not then it cheapens actual racism.
By definition there is no subconscious act that can be described as an ism.
Definition of ism
1 : a distinctive doctrine, cause, or theory2 : an oppressive and especially discriminatory attitude or belief
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phil19034
Guest
It’s possible that the quote was taken out of context? I don’t see a link to what the priest actually wrote.From the link:
He noted that Floyd should not have been killed but “had not lived a virtuous life.”
It should have read Floyd should not have been killed. Period.
To say that he did not lead a virtuous life has nothing to do with it. It makes it sound like it was somehow okay. Would he say that about everyone that does not live a virtuous life? For this quote to come from a Catholic priest is disturbing.
The quote about not living a virtuous life might have to do with how some people are making Floyd out to be a “Saint” or Martyr?
Point is, while in hindsight the priest should have been far more careful in what he wrote, I would not be surprised if the Associated Press (which is not pro-Catholic) took it out of context.
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phil19034
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FYI - North Korea bombed a building in North Korea out of protest. The building wasn’t in South Korea.
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OKComputer
Guest
He certainly should not have been forced to resign, but I think his timing was a little off. It was “too soon”. Emotions are high, tempers are short. We should do anything possible NOT to add fuel to the fire.
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Maximian
Guest
Sorry but what kind of academic institution demands someone’s resignation for doubting something? What happened to the principle of academic freedom? Even chaplains are entitled to opinions.I do take issue with doubting racism in police in general.
By the way, is it proven that this was an act of racism rather than a general act of brutality in which the fact that the victim was black is incidental?
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phil19034
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The problem is that this is all a redefinition of the term “racist.” “Racist” historically meant “hate or discrimination based solely on the color of one’s skin”
There are other “isms” that come into play in America that are far more damaging than racism (in my opinion). Ethnicism & classism are the two biggest, in my belief.
Back in the late 1800s, many people in America showed extreme ethnicism & classism towards the Irish, Italians, Polish, Slavs, etc. This hatred wasn’t “racist” because they were all Europeans.
But it was “ethnicism” & “classism”
Personally, I agree with Booker T. Washington (a 19th century black philosopher) that classism is what African Americans mostly experience & can eliminate by assimilating into the mainstream, middle class. Booker T. Washington felt that if Black people were known as hard workers, intelligent, and efficient, etc.; then people would subconsciously associate them with hard workers, intelligent, and efficient when they subconsciously judged them based on their looks.
I say all of this as a Puerto Rican with year round tan skin, who was often discriminated as a child.
Now, I never lived in the ghetto, etc; but I’ve had Italian family who did.
But I still stand by the following: American isn’t a racist country. We are a CLASSIST & ETHNICIST country.
Example: in MANY rural areas, there appears to be far more interracial marriages, communities, etc than in the urban/suburban areas. WHY? Because in the rural areas, it’s far easier for African Americans to live a middle class lifestyle.
If your ethnic group is considered poor, people (not just white Americans) are going to discriminate against your group. It was that way for the Italians & Irish, and it’s that way for the blacks & hispanics today. But if your ethnic group is considered smart, middle class, etc; your ethnic group will be considered a positive.
In my opinion, racism will never end. People will always judge people by superficial characteristics. However, I think the focus on racism instead of classism will keep people poor.
The best way to eliminate the negative effects of racism is to combat classism and lift people of color out of the lower class.
God Bless
There are other “isms” that come into play in America that are far more damaging than racism (in my opinion). Ethnicism & classism are the two biggest, in my belief.
Back in the late 1800s, many people in America showed extreme ethnicism & classism towards the Irish, Italians, Polish, Slavs, etc. This hatred wasn’t “racist” because they were all Europeans.
But it was “ethnicism” & “classism”
Personally, I agree with Booker T. Washington (a 19th century black philosopher) that classism is what African Americans mostly experience & can eliminate by assimilating into the mainstream, middle class. Booker T. Washington felt that if Black people were known as hard workers, intelligent, and efficient, etc.; then people would subconsciously associate them with hard workers, intelligent, and efficient when they subconsciously judged them based on their looks.
I say all of this as a Puerto Rican with year round tan skin, who was often discriminated as a child.
Now, I never lived in the ghetto, etc; but I’ve had Italian family who did.
But I still stand by the following: American isn’t a racist country. We are a CLASSIST & ETHNICIST country.
Example: in MANY rural areas, there appears to be far more interracial marriages, communities, etc than in the urban/suburban areas. WHY? Because in the rural areas, it’s far easier for African Americans to live a middle class lifestyle.
If your ethnic group is considered poor, people (not just white Americans) are going to discriminate against your group. It was that way for the Italians & Irish, and it’s that way for the blacks & hispanics today. But if your ethnic group is considered smart, middle class, etc; your ethnic group will be considered a positive.
In my opinion, racism will never end. People will always judge people by superficial characteristics. However, I think the focus on racism instead of classism will keep people poor.
The best way to eliminate the negative effects of racism is to combat classism and lift people of color out of the lower class.
God Bless
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StudentMI
Guest
I have to agree with Phil that that is kind of a redefinition. I suggest reading the USCCB statement on racism.
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lagerald24
Guest
Yes, racism is a severely unjust act and it is indeed gravely sinful. I agree with those who say that implicit racial bias still exists, just as blatant racism still exists in many places and in many groups. However, accusing good, honest people of racism without any actual evidence of the charge only serves, in my opinion, to pit groups against each other, promoting new segregation, rather than grounding our identity in Christ and in the natural law which we all share as rational human beings made in God’s image. All people have shadowy biases and prejudices which they have accrued from illogical thinking and skewed judgment. If one maintains a narrow-minded view of reality, they are susceptible to many fallacies in their reasoning and can often foster some irrational, unjust biases. However, being rational creatures, we have the ability to overcome whatever biases we have lurking in our heart and can learn to think more clearly and according to truth and reality. We should question all our implicit biases and submit them to our careful, higher intellect, and not our flighty emotions and hasty perceptions.
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JGD
Guest
I wish I’d read Father’s email right away - unfortunately I just went by what some posters here were saying. My bad. But I did finally go back and read it.
First, Father did not go “on and on about the sins of George Floyd”. There are three short sentences in the first paragraph on page 1 of the 3 page email.
I thought Father’s post was good, accurate and insightful - the kind of guidance I would expect a Catholic priest to give to Catholic students in this current situation. He sent it in an email to the Catholic students — not to the world at large on the internet. As he mentioned, at this time he was unable to give it in a sermon (“preach”).
First, Father did not go “on and on about the sins of George Floyd”. There are three short sentences in the first paragraph on page 1 of the 3 page email.
I thought Father’s post was good, accurate and insightful - the kind of guidance I would expect a Catholic priest to give to Catholic students in this current situation. He sent it in an email to the Catholic students — not to the world at large on the internet. As he mentioned, at this time he was unable to give it in a sermon (“preach”).
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JoeFreedom
New member
All I have to say to anyone supporting this fascist movement in any way regardless of whether they protest peacefully is that you are only contributing to the people behind the movements ultimate goal of total and absolute power and they will not stop with this and they will come for you next. People need to study history. They are erasing at an exceedingly fast pace.
JoeFreedom
New member
Recall the verse about always being prepared? Maybe like a thief in the night?That chance has been stolen from him when he was murdered.
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StudentMI
Guest
I think that’s a bit cold to cite in the midst of his death. Let’s just entrust him to the mercy of God.Recall the verse about always being prepared? Maybe like a thief in the night?
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njlisa
Guest
None of us is colorblind, and I say that as a mixed-raced person. Just as much as anyone else, I need look at my biases and try to be a better person.
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