Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[xixxvmcm85]

We seem to be discussing the actual change in policy.

In that case, I can’t see what all the hubbub is about.

The BSA hasn’t suddenly morphed into a hypersexualized organization simply because they’re letting gay scouts in. And I mean just that! They’re letting gay scouts into the organization. They aren’t providing them with a soapbox to propagate the gay agenda.

I don’t know how many people participating in this thread have actually been scouts, but I have, and I’ve witnessed three fine scouts in my own troop dismissed simply because they were gay. Not because they were having sex with men (all three to my knowledge were virgins, as were most of us 14 year old boys), not because they were trying to recruit us straight scouts (believe me, with all the inappropriate conversations we’d have about girls that would’ve been impossible), and not because they were in any way trying to undermine the Scout Oath. These boys were excused from their membership for no other reason than their same-sex attraction became known to other scouts and/or troop leaders. This is the very definition of systematic discrimination. Many of you seem to not understand. It’s not that the old policy forbade “active” homosexuals, or “advocates of the gay lifestyle”, rather any and all boys who in any way admit that they are attracted to other boys were summarily dismissed.

I can’t help but think how the loss of fraternal camaraderie that these fine boys experienced may have further facilitated other questionable lifestyle choices later on. We wan’t same-sex attracted boys to forgo that urge and live a life reconcilable with Christian virtue? Then we need to stop alienating them and stop giving them no other choice than to label themselves as “other”.

 

[St_Francis]

In that case, I can’t see what all the hubbub is about.

The BSA hasn’t suddenly morphed into a hypersexualized organization simply because they’re letting gay scouts in. And I mean just that! They’re letting gay scouts into the organization. They aren’t providing them with a soapbox to propagate the gay agenda.

I don’t know how many people participating in this thread have actually been scouts, but I have, and I’ve witnessed three fine scouts in my own troop dismissed simply because they were gay. Not because they were having sex with men (all three to my knowledge were virgins, as were most of us 14 year old boys), not because they were trying to recruit us straight scouts (believe me, with all the inappropriate conversations we’d have about girls that would’ve been impossible), and not because they were in any way trying to undermine the Scout Oath. These boys were excused from their membership for no other reason than their same-sex attraction became known to other scouts and/or troop leaders. This is the very definition of systematic discrimination. Many of you seem to not understand. It’s not that the old policy forbade “active” homosexuals, or “advocates of the gay lifestyle”, rather any and all boys who in any way admit that they are attracted to other boys were summarily dismissed.

I can’t help but think how the loss of fraternal camaraderie that these fine boys experienced may have further facilitated other questionable lifestyle choices later on. We wan’t same-sex attracted boys to forgo that urge and live a life reconcilable with Christian virtue? Then we need to stop alienating them and stop giving them no other choice than to label themselves as “other”.

How is it that the sexual orientation of 3 14-year-old boys became known?

 

[xixxvmcm85]

How is it that the sexual orientation of 3 14-year-old boys became known?

In one case it involved wide assumption on the part of the scouts in the troop (haha! Timmy walks like a f@g! haha!!! Look at him! He’s so womanly! hahahahaha!!!) , followed by the Scout Leader’s inquiring of Timmy’s Father. Timmy’s Father admits that Timmy was recently found watching homosexual porn. Timmy was then “politely excused” from our troop.

In another case, Johnny admitted during a snipe hunt (while us other scouts were talking about sexual dreams) that he has had dreams about men. Presumably one or a few scouts informed our Scout Leader, and within two weeks Johnny was no longer coming to our weekly Scout meeting, or to any of our camp outs or visits to the gun range.

In the most memorable case, a boy was being picked on for “talking like a f@g”, when the largest of all us Scouts stood up, helped the boy out and said “Yeah, I’m a f@g too. Dare you say that to my face? Come on! Fight me punk!”. He was questioned a couple times about these comments, and he gave some beat-around-the-bush answers to placate authority. Ultimately he admitted that he has same-sex attraction. He too was kicked out of our troop. This guy I know intimately as my little brother.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

Good grief. Why is this always the first place this conversation goes? “You’re not really Catholic!” There’s no point in feeding this kind of charge – I’m sorry for you that you think those who believe in loyal dissent are an evil element bent on the Church’s destruction. I can’t offer anything more than to say that I’ll continue to pray for you.

How condescending and arrogant of you.

The Cathecism and TRUTH of Holy Mother Church is non-negotiable.

I can also say I will pray for YOU.

 

[St_Francis]

In one case it involved wide assumption on the part of the scouts in the troop (haha! Timmy walks like a f@g! haha!!! Look at him! He’s so womanly! hahahahaha!!!) , followed by the Scout Leader’s inquiring of Timmy’s Father. Timmy’s Father admits that Timmy was recently found watching homosexual porn. Timmy was then “politely excused” from our troop.

In another case, Johnny admitted during a snipe hunt (while us other scouts were talking about sexual dreams) that he has had dreams about men. Presumably one or a few scouts informed our Scout Leader, and within two weeks Johnny was no longer coming to our weekly Scout meeting, or to any of our camp outs or visits to the gun range.

In the most memorable case, a boy was being picked on for “talking like a f@g”, when the largest of all us Scouts stood up, helped the boy out and said “Yeah, I’m a f@g too. Dare you say that to my face? Come on! Fight me punk!”. He was questioned a couple times about these comments, and he gave some beat-around-the-bush answers to placate authority. Ultimately he admitted that he has same-sex attraction. He too was kicked out of our troop. This guy I know intimately as my little brother.

Well, I do think that is a shame that that happened… I don’t think that would have happened in my son’s troop, mostly because our Troop leader wouldn’t let that sort of harsh teasing go on to begin with. I do think that allowances should be made and a firmer policy wrt understanding that teens are, after all, in a state of change; however, I think that what they have done with this current policy change has a lot more ramifications than it seems on the face of it.

One major thing is I do not think that the scouts should be [should have been] questioned about it at all. I would be livid if that happened to my son! This is wrong on so many levels… and the more I think about it, the more I see wrong with it!

Anyway, this is by the Assemblies of God, bit points out some of the problems I see with this decision: As the landmark 2000 Supreme Court decision stated, BSA is a private organization with freedom of association to determine its own membership standards, upholding BSA’s policy not to allow homosexual leaders or members. **BSA stated at the time that a departure from that longstanding policy would undermine its purpose of guiding boys to keep themselves “morally straight,” which is part of the Boy Scout Oath. **

While we are disappointed by BSA’s recent membership decision, we are pleased that the organization will retain its policy regarding adult leaders, and applaud the organization for standing firm on that issue. However, today’s vote to allow homosexual youth members negates BSA’s ability to legally defend its position regarding leadership and opens the door to more efforts by lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender (LGBT) lobbies to make further policy changes.

(I want to note that I do not consider the “morally straight” part of the oath to refer to heterosexual.)

This quote is from an organization started by the AoG which is similar to the Boy Scouts; I do not want the fact that I quoted this to indicate any support for them.

 

[markomalley]

Should the Church have a sign, “Boys who are Gay, Do not come to Religious Ed, Youth Group, Mass?”

Interesting you mention this.

Having had a few years of experience as a 7th grade CCD teacher, I’ve had to confront some interesting situations.

When I teach my kids that marriage is for life and that those who divorce and remarry are committing adultery against their first spouse…unless that first marriage was declared invalid by the Church…I have, on multiple occasions, had angry parents excoriate me because I just told Johnny or Susie that his/her parents were living in sin.

My response to them: well? are you? (It goes into a little more detail…but that is the bottom line)

When I teach my kids about homosexuality, again, I have, on more than one occasion, had parents yell at me. I teach EXACTLY what the Church teaches (read the 1975, 1986, 1992, and 2003 issuances from the CDF to understand Church teaching…btw)

If a lesbian mother come up to me and scream (shrilly, gave me a headache) at me because, in teaching what the Church teaches about homosexuality, I have told her daughter that she is living in an immoral situation…“how dare you, you misogynist homophobe”

(I handed her a copy of my detailed lesson plan and told her if she could find where an item mentioned in my lesson plan was not in strict accord with Church teaching, I would quit teaching. I’m still there.)

The tendency is to soft-pedal the tough moral issues because we don’t want to offend those who are living at variance with Church teachings. The trouble with this approach is that we then end up with people who think they are good Catholics but who are either ignorant of Church teachings on moral issues or think that those moral teachings are optional.

And this, primarily, is my concern with the Boy Scout decision: I’m not concerned that one 12 year old is going to be a predator with an 8 year old. Please.

I am concerned that they will be required to positively reinforce homosexuality as being morally good and desirable.

As the CDF said back in 1986:
There is an effort in some countries to manipulate the Church by gaining the often well-intentioned support of her pastors with a view to changing civil-statutes and laws. This is done in order to conform to these pressure groups’ concept that homosexuality is at least a completely harmless, if not an entirely good, thing. Even when the practice of homosexuality may seriously threaten the lives and well-being of a large number of people, its advocates remain undeterred and refuse to consider the magnitude of the risks involved.

The Church can never be so callous. It is true that her clear position cannot be revised by pressure from civil legislation or the trend of the moment. But she is really concerned about the many who are not represented by the pro-homosexual movement and about those who may have been tempted to believe its deceitful propaganda. She is also aware that the view that homosexual activity is equivalent to, or as acceptable as, the sexual expression of conjugal love has a direct impact on society’s understanding of the nature and rights of the family and puts them in jeopardy.
No, I know they don’t do that now. But give it a few years. The camel has his nose under the tent now. It’s only a matter of time.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

In one case it involved wide assumption on the part of the scouts in the troop (haha! Timmy walks like a f@g! haha!!! Look at him! He’s so womanly! hahahahaha!!!) , followed by the Scout Leader’s inquiring of Timmy’s Father. Timmy’s Father admits that Timmy was recently found watching homosexual porn. Timmy was then “politely excused” from our troop.

In another case, Johnny admitted during a snipe hunt (while us other scouts were talking about sexual dreams) that he has had dreams about men. Presumably one or a few scouts informed our Scout Leader, and within two weeks Johnny was no longer coming to our weekly Scout meeting, or to any of our camp outs or visits to the gun range.

In the most memorable case, a boy was being picked on for “talking like a f@g”, when the largest of all us Scouts stood up, helped the boy out and said “Yeah, I’m a f@g too. Dare you say that to my face? Come on! Fight me punk!”. He was questioned a couple times about these comments, and he gave some beat-around-the-bush answers to placate authority. Ultimately he admitted that he has same-sex attraction. He too was kicked out of our troop. This guy I know intimately as my little brother.

That was tragic. I agree that was wrong of the BSA to allow that kind of behavior.

As long as the “openly gay” (whatever the heck that means) scouts do not try to convert people to their sexuality or spread ideologies that go against the common morality of the Scouts and society (Truth), then I have no problem with them joining the troop. It’s the acts that are sinful, not the SSA itself.
OTOH, this DOES “open the door,” as the poster above has said.

Sad. More sliding down the proverbial bad chute.

 

[xixxvmcm85]

Well, I do think that is a shame that that happened… I don’t think that would have happened in my son’s troop, mostly because our Troop leader wouldn’t let that sort of harsh teasing go on to begin with. I do think that allowances should be made and a firmer policy wrt understanding that teens are, after all, in a state of change; however, I think that what they have done with this current policy change has a lot more ramifications than it seems on the face of it.

And yet it happens. And it happens by virtue of the original policy against any and all gay boy scouts. I’m sure there must’ve been more compassionate troops; especially so in the secular troops at public schools, but that doesn’t in any way address the fact that the BSA had an official policy against anyone who had any form of same sex attraction.

We could argue about gay Scout Leaders (which I’d agree I’d rather not see), but little boys that just so happen to find themselves experiencing same sex attraction should not be alienated from their troop. If anything, its during their affliction that they need their troop the most.

We should not be casting off gay children, from whence they feel like they have no recourse but the gay lifestyle, rather we should be integrating them into the Scouts.

 

[LarryOrtega]

The issue here is not accepting or not accepting boys that believe they are gay, it is understanding if Boy Scouts of America and the gay community will accept us telling the gay boy scouts that a gay lifestyle is immoral and should never be followed.

How will Boy Scouts of America react to those teachings?

 

[St_Francis]

And yet it happens. And it happens by virtue of the original policy against any and all gay boy scouts. I’m sure there must’ve been more compassionate troops; especially so in the secular troops at public schools, but that doesn’t in any way address the fact that the BSA had an official policy against anyone who had any form of same sex attraction.

We could argue about gay Scout Leaders (which I’d agree I’d rather not see), but little boys that just so happen to find themselves experiencing same sex attraction should not be alienated from their troop. If anything, its during their affliction that they need their troop the most.

We should not be casting off gay children, from whence they feel like they have no recourse but the gay lifestyle, rather we should be integrating them into the Scouts.

This is the problem: the Scouts are not set up to help boys/young men sort out this type of issue. So while a young man in this situation should not be kicked out for mere homosexual attraction, it is certainly not something that he should rely on the troop to help him through–nor would I expect the troop to help with other problems.

I can see fixing a policy which can be overly harsh–the old policy was a bit ambiguous as to what constituted grounds for exclusion as in one place they mentioned conduct and in the FAQ, they mentioned “being” homosexual.

 

[lakotak]

Does BSA currently exclude Atheists? Is this true?

 

[Corki]

Good grief. Why is this always the first place this conversation goes? “You’re not really Catholic!” There’s no point in feeding this kind of charge – I’m sorry for you that you think those who believe in loyal dissent are an evil element bent on the Church’s destruction. I can’t offer anything more than to say that I’ll continue to pray for you.

That’ s pretty much what disent is. Dissenters may not have evil intent themselves but they are tools of the evil one, for sure.

A new oxymoron – “loyal dissent”.

 

[LarryOrtega]

Boy Scouts do not exclude atheists. But, they must accept and recite our Scout Law that states that scouts are “reverent”. They must also accept our Oath that says they “do (their) my duty to God”. Maybe they say it and don’t believe it, but they do have to say it. Also, they must answer questions posed to them about what “reverence” means. I have heard of Eagle Boards of Review that found out that a Boy did not believe in God. They discussed the scout oath with him and when the Boy admitted he was lying when he stated the Scout Oath, they did not award him Eagle Scout.

 

[Lost_Sheep]

There’s no record or evidence that such a convention ever took place, no record of what organizations were allegedly involved, no record of such a document outside of the rare random post on conservative websites, and when challenged no verifying source is ever procured. Its absolutely amazing that this nonsense has persisted for decades isn’t it?

And the Holocaust didn’t happen either.

 

[lakotak]

Boy Scouts do not exclude atheists. But, they must accept and recite our Scout Law that states that scouts are “reverent”. They must also accept our Oath that says they “do (their) my duty to God”. Maybe they say it and don’t believe it, but they do have to say it. Also, they must answer questions posed to them about what “reverence” means. I have heard of Eagle Boards of Review that found out that a Boy did not believe in God. They discussed the scout oath with him and when the Boy admitted he was lying when he stated the Scout Oath, they did not award him Eagle Scout.

Thanks for the information.

 

[brierpatch1974]

Things like this confuse me. Why don’t gays just start their own groups with people who share their own beliefs ? Why must they force others to change to agree with them instead of respecting different opinions and beliefs? And why on earth would they want to be a part of a group who they so strongly disagree with?

Gays accuse others of being filled with hate but in reality it is them who are filled with hate and intolerance. Instead of respecting others they seek to destroy and then try to play the victim card. It is sickening to watch this kind of human behavior. Leave others alone and go do your own thing and others will leave you alone.

I do not have the right to force my beliefs and opinions on you and I would never try. I will share what my views are if you ask but that doesn’t mean I am trying to change you. So stop trying to force your views on me and people like me. You do not have the right to do so. Why are you attacking others just because they don’t share your views? Why do you constantly do what you accuse others of doing?

 

[Megan7]

I have not read the entire thread, but, I was wondering…

What happens in a few years, when these gay youth scouts are adults & want to
become leaders?

I would think it is a natural path for a scout to eventually become a leader once he is
an adult, right?

I think its just a matter of time…

God help us,

Pax

 

[mwic]

As the landmark 2000 Supreme Court decision stated, BSA is a private organization with freedom of association to determine its own membership standards, upholding BSA’s policy not to allow homosexual leaders or members.

Why don’t gays just start their own groups with people who share their own beliefs ? Why must they force others to change to agree with them instead of respecting different opinions and beliefs?

The change in BSA policy was decided by a vote of the BSA National Council. Was anyone “forced” to do anything?

 

[BroomWagon]

The change in BSA policy was decided by a vote of the BSA National Council. Was anyone “forced” to do anything?

Yes, deep pockets, special interests forced it.

 

[gilliam]

**REACTION TO POLICY CHANGE IN
MEMBERSHIP STANDARDS FOR THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA
**National Catholic Committee on Scouting
Thursday, May 23, 2014@ 5:48 PM

For over 100 years, thousands of children in Catholic parishes, schools and fraternal organizations have benefited from chartering Scouting units. The Catholic Church has maintained a strong relationship with the Boy Scouts of America (BSA) through the National Catholic Committee on Scouting (NCCS) for many years and we hope to maintain that relationship.

Today, the voting members of the BSA voted to change the membership standards for its youth members. The BSA proposed in its resolution that “no youth may be denied membership in the Boy Scouts of America on the basis of sexual orientation or preference alone.” Its membership standards for adult leaders remain unchanged.

The Catholic Church teaches that people who experience a homosexual inclination or a same sex attraction are to be treated with respect recognizing the dignity of all persons. The Church’s teaching is clear that engaging in sexual activity outside of marriage is immoral. Individuals who are open and avowed homosexuals promoting and engaging in homosexual conduct are not living lives consistent with Catholic teaching.

Since the change in policy will not take effect until January 1, 2014, the National Catholic Committee on Scouting has adequate time to study its effects. The NCCS will determine how it may impact Catholic chartered Scout units and activities. In doing so, we will work within the teachings of our Catholic Faith and with the various local bishops and their diocesan scouting committees.

Ed Martin- National Chair
Father Michael Hanifin-National Chaplain

nccs-bsa.org/comment/NCCSComment52313.php