Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[fix]

I do think it a bit silly that young teens and even pre-teens are coming out (some before puberty even starts!). At that ages, I think that many of them are more confused than anything. That being said, when someone is sixteen or seventeen, they can generally figure out which way they lean.

They can be influenced, badly, through many avenues. Having the affirmation that it is good to self identify in such a way by an organization only gives more harmful support.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Wait and see. If I had to bet, I will bet the boy scouts will become an increasingly gay organization, then die out completely.

Why, by the way, do you think it helps the emotional health of a normal teen to associate with overt homosexuals? They don’t normally do that. Nor is there any compelling reason to force them to do it.

Normal teens associate with homosexuals all the time. They are just in the closet.

Also, I was referring to the fact that kicking the gay teen out after coming out would probably be bad for his emotional health, while allowing him to remain in the organization and maintain the friendships that he has established would likely be good for it. Disinterested friendship and all.

 

[ringil]

Homosexuality is closer to pedophilia than it is to heterosexuality. All three are different, but the first two are unnatural deviations of the last. The first two when acted on is always objective mortal sin. The first two destroy societies.

I’m a bit surprised by this post pnewton- I wouldn’t have though you went this far.

But anyway. Homosexuality is sinful it is not a mental disorder as it does not manifest the features of psychological dysfunction.

Things can be wrong but still not be destructive in a psychological sense- masturbation is a classic example of this. It does not harm to the person- if the person carries no guilt- in fact masturbation has been shown to increase self-easteem and a sense of self-effecacy.

And yet masturbation is still sinful.

THere is nothing dysfunctional (in a psychological sense) about consensual homosexual activity.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m a college-aged male who is an Eagle Scout, has many conservative Catholic friends who are also Eagle Scouts. I work at a Scout camp, and have volunteered with middle school kids. Homophobia is on the wane in the younger generations, and this is a good thing according to Church teaching.

As someone who supports the Church’s teaching on marriage, I am afraid that you are wrong and that we will lose this fight. The younger generations honestly don’t care about this issue, or if they do care, they are on the side opposed to traditional marriage. This makes me sad, but we are currently loosing the war.

I don’t think not kicking out a 16-year-old who has been in the troop for five years because he decides to come out will scandalize the little ones.

It would be a good thing if people stopped using the epithet “homophobia”. It is a pejorative word meaning “bigot”. One can be adamantly opposed to the promotion of homosexuality out of a sense of morality or even aversion to the perverse. That does not mean one is a “bigot”. Many years ago when I was in school, there were boys suspected of being homosexual, but others simply left them to their own preferences. There were teachers reasonably believed to be homosexual, and as long as they did not mess with the kids, people left them alone.

The difference now is the insistence that everyone give lip service to its “normalcy”, which few really believe and which most will never really accept. It’s like those totalitarian societies in which one is obliged to stand up and cheer for some “dear leader”, who they know in their hearts is a monster.

As to the homosexual 16 year old, I think you’re right. Nobody will care when he “comes out” because all of his troop mates will also be homosexual; normal boys having long decided not to join.

 

[Lochias]

Welp, the Boy Scouts turned out to be a bunch of shills. Go figure.

Guess it’s only convenient to “honor God” until those that don’t start tugging the ol’ purse-strings, eh?

The leaders of the BSA should be ashamed to their graves.

 

[fix]

We could argue about gay Scout Leaders (which I’d agree I’d rather not see), but little boys that just so happen to find themselves experiencing same sex attraction should not be alienated from their troop. If anything, its during their affliction that they need their troop the most.

Do we really think that troubled children need BSA most at such a time? Is not the family important? Authentic medical care and authentic psychological and spiritual care should be more important.

The Church does not encourage “coming out” and self identifying as “gay”. That is a modern secular dogma.

 

[Lochias]

As to the homosexual 16 year old, I think you’re right. Nobody will care when he “comes out” because all of his troop mates will also be homosexual; normal boys having long decided not to join.

This is true! In 5 years, when it’s nothing but a glorified drag show, it will be irrelevant and shown as the joke it’s starting to become now.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

This is true! In 5 years, when it’s nothing but a glorified drag show, it will be irrelevant and shown as the joke it’s starting to become now.

This is called homphobia. It is the stereotyping of an entire class of people based on the actions of a subset of those people. It goes against the Church’s call for unjust discrimination.

Also, why are people assuming that the all the boys will be or want to be active homosexuals? Seems rather reductionistic and against Church teaching to me.

 

[wynnejj]

THere is nothing dysfunctional (in a psychological sense) about consensual homosexual activity.

Well, except maybe when given that square peg and round hole test or, that round peg and a square hole. Other than that, we do just fine … thank you very much.

 

[mwic]

People who reject this change in the Boy Scouts’ policy are basing it on their mistaken notion that gay sexual orientation immediately translates to gay sexual behavior, and further, gay sexual abuse which gay boys will likely inflict on straight boys. It’s as though the mere presence of gay boy scouts will somehow contaminate the rest of the troop. Their judgment is based on fear of what they think will probably happen. They evidently have an underlying prejudice (pre-judgment) toward people who have same-sex attraction, whether or not they want to admit it. The other fear these people have is that this is really all part of a conspiratorial gay agenda

The gay agenda was laid out on the table for everyone to see. Not in 1972 … last year!

dallasvoice.com/potts%E2%80%99-agenda-show-boring-reality-lgbt-life-1096330.html

blog.chron.com/believeitornot/2012/01/televangelist-oral-roberts%E2%80%99-grandson-launches-%E2%80%98gay-agenda%E2%80%99-tour/

 

[irishpatrick]

A couple simple questions:

Should girls be allowed into the Boy Scouts and at the same time be allowed to sleep in tents with the boys?

Why yes or why no?

 

[wynnejj]

This is true! In 5 years, when it’s nothing but a glorified drag show, it will be irrelevant and shown as the joke it’s starting to become now.

Hi. My name is Billy and you all know me, I’m a homosexual. In fact, I come from a long line of scouts. My dads were scouts, their dads were scouts, and their dads were scouts. We can trace our lineage back to our founding fathers at the time of the sexual revolution. It is with sadness that I must tell you that the local council has decided to expel Jimmy who came out with “same-sex repulsion” although not preaching or practicing his homophobe nature. Unfortunately he appealed it to national, and we will be participating in a two year fact-finding survey to see if we should allow SSR kids in our ranks. I appeal to you to remember our timeless scouting values when answering those questions.

 

[Lochias]

This is called homphobia.

There aren’t enough roll-eyes smilies in the world to respond to this, but I’ll try:

It is the stereotyping of an entire class of people based on the actions of a subset of those people. It goes against the Church’s call for unjust discrimination.

No. No, no, no. Let’s actually look at the word, instead of the mush you’ve apparently been fed:

"A phobia is an irrational fear, a kind of anxiety disorder in which the sufferer has a relentless dread of a situation, living creature, place or thing."

• from Medical News Today.

I do not have a relentless fear, anxiety disorder or relentless dread of those with same-sex attraction. Please stop throwing words around like an enraged bonobo with a built-in targeting system.

Also, why are people assuming that the all the boys will be or want to be active homosexuals? Seems rather reductionistic and against Church teaching to me.

They’re already being taught to identify as “gay”. If it’s not a big deal, why are people MAKING such a big deal about it? “w00t! Now we can have GAY BOYS in the BSA!!!”

Seems to me you ought to be angry at those who are promoting an agenda of sexualizing our youth. But hey, that might be too -reasonable- for some, and therefore make them the target of real and actual bigotry, so I understand if you’d rather just be safe and keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

 

[BroomWagon]

I have heard spokespeople for the LGBT community with that same pitch as the Oral Roberts grandson articles actually for anyone who read that link. It is a compelling argument.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

A couple simple questions:

Should girls be allowed into the Boy Scouts and at the same time be allowed to sleep in tents with the boys?

Why yes or why no?

Boy Scouts has a program for this. It is called Venturing. I do not believe co-ed tents are allowed.

The solution is a fairly simple one: don’t put two boys who are both gay in the same tent. Problem solved.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wait and see. If I had to bet, I will bet the boy scouts will become an increasingly gay organization, then die out completely.

Why, by the way, do you think it helps the emotional health of a normal teen to associate with overt homosexuals? They don’t normally do that. Nor is there any compelling reason to force them to do it.

You’re kidding, right? You don’t think that heterosexual teenage boys hang out with gay ones on purpose? I’m less than 10 years removed from high school and I can assure you that the openly gay teens had plenty of friends of both genders.

My fiance went to high school in a different state than I did, though we are both from the Midwest. His very best friend was gay. They were inseparable and after finally getting to know the guy I understand why. He’s a great guy and even after all these years is still a great friend to both of us.

 

[irishpatrick]

Boy Scouts has a program for this. It is called Venturing. I do not believe co-ed tents are allowed.

The solution is a fairly simple one: don’t put two boys who are both gay in the same tent. Problem solved.

You did not answer my questions.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

No. No, no, no. Let’s actually look at the word, instead of the mush you’ve apparently been fed:

"A phobia is an irrational fear, a kind of anxiety disorder in which the sufferer has a relentless dread of a situation, living creature, place or thing."

• from Medical News Today.

I do not have a relentless fear, anxiety disorder or relentless dread of those with same-sex attraction. Please stop throwing words around like an enraged bonobo with a built-in targeting system.

Homophobia can also mean antipathy towards homosexuals, and like xenophobia has come to mean bigotry directed towards a given group. Words don’t have to mean what their constituant parts mean. English is a living language. It evolves.

I maintain that your comment about the BSA turning into a drag show was homophobic, meaning bigoted, because it is an unfair stereotype of an entire class of people. Unjust discrimination is to be avoid and we are to treat people with respect and compassion. That is what the Catechism says, at least.

They’re already being taught to identify as “gay”. If it’s not a big deal, why are people MAKING such a big deal about it? “w00t! Now we can have GAY BOYS in the BSA!!!”

Seems to me you ought to be angry at those who are promoting an agenda of sexualizing our youth. But hey, that might be too -reasonable- for some, and therefore make them the target of real and actual bigotry, so I understand if you’d rather just be safe and keep drinking the Kool-Aid.

Again, this policy change will mainly affect high school aged boys. By this time, they already probably have some idea of what is going on with their sexuality. I don’t think they are sexualizing our youth anymore than previously existed. Fun fact: sixteen-year-olds have already hit puberty.

 

[hadulzo]

I have been watching this discussion and EVERYONE is failing to touch on the key point. The Boy Scouts is a unique organization. Though adults are called leaders, they are really only there in an advisory capacity and to drive the van. The boys are the leaders. As parents how to you feel having a17 year old openly gay boy being your 10 1/2 year old son’s roll model and leader. That is what it comes down to.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

You did not answer my questions.

The question isn’t really relevant since girls are already allowed in a Boy Scout program: Venturing.

If you are interested to see how it works you can Google it.