Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[wynnejj]

(1) Well, of course, I said it’s wrong. But I’d punish the violators.

(2) Yes. I would still support the original decision to expel (or at least sanction) the violators.
I don’t understand why the national council would overrule the decision.

Personal social advocacy meets religious group’s social advocacy. If the church organization must show “reverence” to other church’s in their belief systems, must it show “reverence” to individuals within its own ranks who do not subscribe to the church’s position and draw others away from its purpose. There is a requirement to speak up against homosexual acts and unions wherever it shows itself in the context of parish and, for that matter, public life.

 

[Ridgerunner]

So how do you propose dealing with gay boys in school or on the play field? I guess they were born into “perversity”? My God does not make a person gay to be treated as perverse. What kind of Father would do that to their child?

You are assuming, of course, that people are “born gay”. That has not been proved despite numerous attempts to identify “gay genes” “homone floods”, etc, etc, etc. There are other schools of thought about that. It’s discouraged, of course, to think otherwise, but we’re still free to think it for now.

What kind of father would encourage his child to declare his sexual proclivities to the world?

 

[Luigi_Daniele]

Withering away of the Boy Scouts as an organization ( ) in 5,4,3,2…

 

[signit]

Personal social advocacy meets religious group’s social advocacy. If the church organization must show “reverence” to other church’s in their belief systems, must it show “reverence” to individuals within its own ranks who do not subscribe to the church’s position and draw others away from its purpose. There is a requirement to speak up against homosexual acts and unions wherever it shows itself in the context of parish and, for that matter, public life.

It is my understanding that a Catholic-based group could still require members to be Catholic, and, by extension, expel those who violate Catholic doctrine.

 

[Joe_5859]

“our ire”? What ire? IF A PARENT wants to remove his boy from the scouts, he’s free to do so, Catholic or not. My opinion is not a comment against anything the Church may do.

You apparently do not believe that the normalization of homosexual behavior from school kids all the way up to adults has not been growing worse and worse every year, and yes, this is all part of the same fabric. The evidence is crystal clear.

Who’s teaching the wider culture, Joe? The mass media? Face it, the agenda has vilified the Church. The Church is wrong, especially about gay sex. If you missed that, I don’t know what else to say.

You want Indifference? If little Billy is told it’s OK he’s gay AND wants to look forward to marrying another young man as he gets older, what are young people, in particular, being taught? Yes, the Church is telling us the correct way to treat homosexual persons, but go to any “gay marriage” site - list on request - and see what they are saying about the Church when the subject is brought up.

First, it was “leave us alone,” now this.

Peace,
Ed

Ed, you seem to be reading into my comments more than I actually said. I never said parents were not free to pull their kids out of scouting. Of course they are. That’s sort of obvious. But I can certainly encourage them to think it through before acting. I didn’t realize such advice would be controversial. It seems like common sense to me.

And I never said that the normalization of homosexuality isn’t growing year by year. It’s obvious that it is.

But I don’t think we should allow such inroads being made to put us constantly on the defensive. We need to recognize and affirm actions taken that are in conformity with Catholic teaching. If we fail to do so, then we risk encouraging an atmosphere where those with a homosexual orientation do not feel welcome in the Church. That leaves them with the “gay community” as the only place to go.

 

[gilliam]

Boy Scouts’ policy change is being used as a ‘teachable moment’

The Archdiocese of St. Louis News

A recent policy change by the Boy Scouts of America, which removed a restriction denying membership to youth on the basis of sexual orientation, will serve as a teachable moment for those involved in Catholic Boy Scouting here in the Archdiocese of St. Louis and around the nation.

Approximately 1,400 members of the Boy Scouts of America’s National Council voted on the resolution May 23 after a review of the organization’s membership policy and extensive feedback from those involved in Scouting and the general public.

The resolution, which is set to go in effect Jan. 1, 2014, also noted that Scouting “is a youth program, and any sexual conduct, whether heterosexual or homosexual, by youth of Scouting age is contrary to the virtues of Scouting,” according to a statement by the Boy Scouts of America. The policy change had no effect on adult leaders who serve in Scouting.

Here in the Archdiocese of St. Louis, Scouting units that are part of Catholic parishes will continue to operate as they always have in accordance with the values, traditions and teachings of the Church, said Ann Lederman, director of the archdiocesan Office of Catholic Scouting.

While the BSA’s decision has generated much heated discussion on topic of homosexuality, “we see this as an opportunity to uphold the Church’s teaching on homosexuality while at the same time minister to these young people, who are still in their formative years,” said Lederman. “That is the mission of all baptized Christians.”

 

[gilliam]

A statement from the National Catholic Committee on Scouting, a Church committee that fosters the relationship between the Church and BSA, said that it will spend the months leading up to the implementation of the policy change to study its effects. “The NCCS will determine how it may impact Catholic-chartered Scout units and activities. In doing so, we will work within the teachings of our Catholic faith and with the various local bishops and their diocesan Scouting committees,” according to the statement.

The committee also previously noted that it will use the Church’s teaching on same-sex attraction as found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (Nos. 2357-59) and the U.S. bishops’ 2006 document, “Ministry to Persons with a Homosexual Inclination: Guidelines for Pastoral Care,” as “a fundamental reference point.”

The catechism states that homosexual persons are called to chastity. They must be accepted with respect, compassion and sensitivity, the catechism adds.
The Archdiocese also issued a statement, which noted:

"The Archdiocese of St. Louis takes Catholic faith and formation of young people very seriously. The decision of BSA regarding youth and same-sex attraction does not change our responsibility to uphold the truths of our faith and to offer faith-formation programs based on those truths, which we will continue to do. As Catholics, we believe that a proper understanding of Theology of the Body, as taught by Pope John Paul II, offers truth about the beauty and sanctity of human sexuality. We welcome opportunities to proclaim the Gospel call to conversion. We agree with Pope Emeritus Benedict when he said, “Every human being is loved by God the Father. No one need feel forgotten, for every name is written in the Lord’s loving heart.”

“We encourage Catholics and all people of faith to treat one another with respect, dignity and love and to pray for our culture.”

At the end of 2012, there were 1,158 Boy Scout units in the Greater St. Louis Area Council. The majority of its membership participates in Cub Scouts — which are Scouts primarily in first through fifth grades. Midway through fifth grade, Cub Scouts generally transition into Boy Scouts. Traditionally, the number of members starts to decline as they get into middle and high school, said Lederman. The Office of Catholic Scouting works with units to provide services including faith formation programs, retreats and other programs, as well as adult Scouter development, lay apostolate training program.
Another question that has come up in light of the resolution is what kind of effect it could have on Catholic Scouting units that participate in larger-scale Scouting programs. Lederman said that again can be used as a positive, teachable moment.

“These are the kinds of things that Scouts are already being exposed to in our current culture,” said Lederman. “But with the help of our caring Scout leaders, along with the parents, we can help them to respond in love, but with the solid foundation of what we teach as a Church. We talk about fighting for religious liberty — we don’t want to lose what we stand for — but in this situation, we have to remember that we are talking about children. So we must respond in love — just like we would with those who have had an abortion, or committed adultery.”

Several faith-formation programs offered through the Catholic Scouting Office delve into the topic of sexuality and chastity. The Ad Altare Dei program, for those who have completed the sixth grade and older, touches on the seven sacraments and helps Scouts “develop a fully Christian way of life in a faith community.” The Pope Pius XII program, for individuals in high school and college, explores the concept of vocations and making life choices. Lederman noted that some faith-formation programs are offered to all youths.

“These are such formative years, and that’s why we feel Catholic Scouting is so beneficial,” said Lederman. “We’re helping these young Scouts with their faith. We need to remember that we must treat others with love, respect and dignity. Let’s help them be young people and grow up in this world with a rock-solid foundation of their faith. It’s the greatest gift we can give them.”

stlouisreview.com/print/25466

 

[Fairwinds]

…
Yes, boy scouts are expected to be morally upright. So are members of the armed forces…

hey… we in the Navy were pure of heart in thought, word and deed. can’t say anything about Other Ranks or those people who walked around on the ground lot. wore funny uniforms.

 

[wynnejj]

hey… we in the Navy were pure of heart in thought, word and deed. can’t say anything about Other Ranks or those people who walked around on the ground lot. wore funny uniforms.

Thay, Thailor. Looking for any port in a storm?

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Who has called anyone evil? No one in this thread. Your questions are loaded, wrong, and intended to deflect the actual point.

To answer your question one merely need read your posts starting with # 55:
“Yes Truth is a person and He has said homosexual acts are evil. We agree”

Also # 337, 355, 438.

So a kid masturbating with other boys is “evil”?

 

[fix]

I think you watch too much cable news. I know plenty of people who use the term homophobia without it being a political tool to further gay marriage (myself included). This is an empirical claim, but when tested against experience it turns out not to be true. You shouldn’t let the extremes define words.

That people are uninformed does not make the terms any better. It just shows the propaganda works.

The fact that someone has attractions to the same-sex furthers the propaganda that homosexual persons exist? Okay.

No, that adults use children to further the agenda exists. 10 year olds are not “gay” unless they have someone affirming that. Joining the Scouts and claiming one is “gay” must have some adult in their life that is affirming this nonsense. The Scouts simply have bowed to the pressure.

If someone was going to be used because of his orientation he would be used anyway, regardless of whether or not he was in the scouts.

So the Scouts should go along for the ride?

I never claimed they would be using Catholic moral theology: I was claiming that the Scouts themselves clarified that all the resolution did was allow people who admit to having homosexual tendencies into the scouts, and that it still expects scouts not to be sexually active. I think this is in line with Catholic moral theology.

Not being sexually active is not the only concern.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

To answer your question one merely need read your posts starting with # 55:
“Yes Truth is a person and He has said homosexual acts are evil. We agree”

Also # 337, 355, 438.

So a kid masturbating with other boys is “evil”?

Catholic teaching is that homosexual acts and masturbation are intrinsically evil. This is to be distinguished from homosexual attraction, which is not sinful in itself.

 

[fix]

Sure, there are political motives and outside pressure at play. That’s why this all is happening now

But I prefer to look at the rule as written rather than the editorializing on either side about what it might mean symbolically.

And the rule as written is not objectionable. AIt also presents the perfect opportunity for us to articulate the Catholic teaching that we welcome and accept those with a homosexual inclination even while calling them to live a life of virtue by not acting on those inclinations.

The Archdiocese of St. Louis calls this a “teachable moment”. I agree.

Sure, we can turn it into lemonade but that seems like spitting into the ocean. This portends a much larger problem and it is not if but when.

 

[fix]

What kind of father would encourage his child to declare his sexual proclivities to the world?

The same ones who wanted the policy change.

 

[Fairwinds]

Thay, Thailor. Looking for any port in a storm?

I’m not saying that’s a Marine mating call.

 

[fix]

To answer your question one merely need read your posts starting with # 55:
“Yes Truth is a person and He has said homosexual acts are evil. We agree”

Also # 337, 355, 438.

So a kid masturbating with other boys is “evil”?

Can you read? The acts are evil not the person. Please stop the calumny.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

You are assuming, of course, that people are “born gay”. That has not been proved despite numerous attempts to identify “gay genes” “homone floods”, etc, etc, etc. There are other schools of thought about that. It’s discouraged, of course, to think otherwise, but we’re still free to think it for now.

What kind of father would encourage his child to declare his sexual proclivities to the world?

Oh so, a 10 yr old boy who fantasizes about his favorite male athlete has made a decision to be gay? What kids even have insight into their budding sexuality? And then decides he wants to be gay. Are you not aware of how many gay youth commit suicide because they are rejected for loving another human being?

 

[Brendan_64]

Not being sexually active is not the only concern.

Yes it is. It is sexual activity outside of marriage that is sinful. A celibate homosexual is committing no more sin that a celibate, unmarried, heterosexual. Having homosexual tendencies is not in itself sinful.

 

[buffalo]

. 10 year olds are not “gay” unless they have someone affirming that. Joining the Scouts and claiming one is “gay” must have some adult in their life that is affirming this nonsense. The Scouts simply have bowed to the pressure.

There you have it. I couldn’t think of the words.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Can you read? The acts are evil not the person. Please stop the calumny.

So a boy who, for no fault of his own, kisses another boy makes him evil? Do you even know a gay person?