Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[rlg94086]

The point is that the Church persecuted Galileo for discovering that the geocentric (earth-at-the-center) view of the solar system was wrong.

Lol. Galileo didn’t discover heliocentricism and that wasn’t what he was “persecuted” for.

As someone else said, start another thread…but you might want to do some research first.

 

[fix]

We pray for God’s guidance and recognize that the Holy Spirit moves the Body of Christ with understanding and love.

Well there must be several Holy Spirits because one says it is a sin that cries out to Heaven and one says it is to be celebrated.

 

[fix]

Except the issue with the BSA and homosexuality tends to be with older teens. There is a big difference between a boy of ten or twelve, and a teen of seventeen saying “I am gay”.

If a ten or twelve year old tells me “I’m gay” I would be all “That’s nice Johnny, go play basketball now.” and then wait two hours and he will likely have forgotten that he is gay. If a seventeen year old comes out, it is quite a different story.

So, you agree that this policy will provoke problems?

 

[rlg94086]

Ultimately what we are discussing is that human understanding comes from God. Yet the Church has struggled with discernment because we are nothing more than human beings.

If the above is true how do we know that?

We pray for God’s guidance and recognize that the Holy Spirit moves the Body of Christ with understanding and love.

Hey! Lucky for us, He sent us His Son and gave us the Church. Now, what does the Church say about homosexuality… Hmm…

 

[fix]

Hey! Lucky for us, He sent us His Son and gave us the Church. Now, what does the Church say about homosexuality… Hmm…

Wait, hold on here. Apparently He changed his mind.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

So, you are in favor of people identifying themselves by their other disordered feelings? Hi, I’m a masturbater. Hello there, I’m sexually attracted to sheep. Well, hello there, I get sexually excited when I see a 5 year old. Etcetera.

Yes, we do have words to describe all of those things. Just like we have words to describe someone who steals, lies, murders, etc. We also have words that describe people with dispositions towards sins: kleptomaniac, pathological liar, serial killer, alcoholic, etc.

 

[fix]

Yes, we do have words to describe all of those things. Just like we have words to describe someone who steals, lies, murders, etc. We also have words that describe people with dispositions towards sins: kleptomaniac, pathological liar, serial killer, alcoholic, etc.

Some are affirmed and celebrated others not so much.

 

[ringil]

Morality doesn’t follow the mental health community. The desire to have sex with someone of the same gender or with oneself is a disordered desire according to the steadfast teaching of the Catholic Church. The fact that the psychological community changed its mind about it is irrelevant. They also believe masturbation is positive and beneficial. Sexual deviancy is celebrated by the mental health community, but not by the Catholic Church.

I was responding to a thread in comments related to the existence of homosexuality as a mental disorder. It is not a mental disorder.

My post did not relate to Catholic moral teaching. The mental health community is not an arm of the Church and is not related to questions of Catholic morality. For a licensed psychiatrist, psychologist, social worker, marriage and family counselor, licensed counselor to practice using Catholic moral teaching as a guide would be grossly unethical and abusive to clients.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

So, you agree that this policy will provoke problems?

No. There won’t be a problem with the 10-14 y.o. range because those kids haven’t hit puberty or are just starting it, so the issue likely won’t come up.

With the 15-17 y.o. range it will solve problems by not kicking kids who have been in the troop out and not making them live in fear and forced to keep a secret from a friend who they may need to confide in for help.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

Some are affirmed and celebrated others not so much.

I wasn’t claiming that they should be affirmed or celebrated. I was just pointing out that we have words to describe people. Adjectives and nouns are not bad things.

 

[EvangelCatholic]

Hey! Lucky for us, He sent us His Son and gave us the Church. Now, what does the Church say about homosexuality… Hmm…

The Church says that we are God’s children and how we treat others we do so unto Christ. I am a Lutheran who lives in a state that has gay marriage [New York]; my parish performs gay marriages. But my Church also murdered ‘Anabaptists’ centuries ago because we thought that is what God wanted us to do since Baptists don’t believe in the Real Presence.

 

[gus]

The point is that the Church persecuted Galileo for discovering that the geocentric (earth-at-the-center) view of the solar system was wrong.

He was lucky he wasn’t in Lutheran or Calvinist area he would have been executed instead of living in a villa where he did his most enduring scientific work.

 

[buffalo]

Does that mean that women should never be Scout masters because they may have a secret desire for young boys?

They know their struggle better than anyone. And if being a scoutmaster puts them in a near occasion of sin then yes, they should consider quitting.

 

[StJudeprayforme]

They know their struggle better than anyone. And if being a scoutmaster puts them in a near occasion of sin then yes, they should consider quitting.

Yes, people who want to have sexual contact with minors should not be scoutmasters. That really isn’t an issue here.

 

[rlg94086]

So if we don’t identify ourselves by our sexual desires–and I partly agree with you on this–what is the issue in the case of the change that took place regarding the BSA? They themselves use the term “sexual orientation” as no longer justifiably a basis of discrimination. Leaving that aside, why do you believe gay boys should still be barred from the Boy Scouts, if not on the basis of their (perceived) sexual orientation?

It should never be based on “perceived sexual orientation.” Who has advocated that? I think “don’t ask, don’t tell” was the best policy, when it comes to sexual desires. If someone is identifying based on a disordered sexual desire, they are basically rejecting the moral codes of scouting…at least they were.

A person who experiences disordered sexual desires but remains chaste would be imperceptable to others. If they act on those desires, and it becomes known, then it should be treated the same as anyone else who has done something improper. If the organization considers it an act worthy of removal, then the person should be removed.

 

[buffalo]

All I see is one of the most trusted organizations in the United States saying that it will not kick out high school kids who happen to be gay. It even issued a clarification, which I reproduced earlier, saying that scouts were expected not to partake in sexual conduct.

If the “gay identity” as it is often referred to around here, includes promiscuity (something I contest), the scouts sure aren’t promoting it. If they are promoting that people acknowledge that they have homosexual tendencies (I don’t think they are) then there is nothing wrong with this in itself.

The most trusted organization is no longer trustworthy.

 

[buffalo]

Scout leaders are not allowed to be alone with minors. There should never be an opportunity for sexual contact in the scouts. Policies to prevent this are in place and are strictly enforced. Also, let’s not confuse child abuse with homosexuality, please.

They could wish to reveal this for any number of reasons. Emotional support. Having someone they see as a role model know the struggle they are going through. Any sort of angsty teen reason. Regardless of the reason, the Church recognizes that this can be beneficial.

put in the right hands. What happens if the confidant steers the boy into the homosexual lifestyle?

 

[Joe_5859]

The Church has said clearly there is no need to discuss this in public. The BSA is no place for this issue. Frankly, some things should be in the closet. That is how we deal with private matters. At least until about 5 minutes ago. Now every unnatural thought must be said publicly and affirmed.

Okay. But simply because a discussion is not “public” does not mean information never comes out. The new policy does not in any way necessitate speaking about these things in public. It simply provides a safeguard for a youth if the information becomes known.

 

[buffalo]

Scout leaders are not allowed to be alone with minors.

And that is never ever broken? I have some land to sell you… What if it happens only 1 time? Are you OK with it?

 

[StJudeprayforme]

The most trusted organization is no longer trustworthy.

We don’t trust their explanation of how the implementation of a decision they have made will take place, based off of our own reading of the decision? Okay. That’s charitable.