Boy Scouts to allow gay youths to join

[Elzee]

So where are our Catholic Bishops on this? I see the joint religoius statement below but do not see any Catholic Bishops (Cardinal Dolan - President of the USCCB???) signatures on it?

There was a time when our Bishops led the way on issues like this. And,given many parishes host Scout troops you would think they would have been speaking out.

Did I miss something?

touchstonemag.com/merecomments/2013/05/statement-religious-leaders-boy-scouts/

 

[ringil]

I could forgive if I was the only casualty. But our culture is a casualty. How many wounds are you going to allow before you fight back? Man up!

It seems that you have lost some perspective on this issue.

Maybe describe what you mean by “man up” and “fight back”?

 

[rlg94086]

I think the point is that most of these boys that think they are gay are not the enemy. They are victims. If they can be salvaged, they should be. In a Catholic setting, one can use truth. It is not necessary to accept the idea of okey-dokey-gay’s-okay. Just the opposite. I prefer to make such people uncomfortable in a Catholic setting with such a position, but comfortable in repentance.

As far as my own son, I know how to protect my own. If I ever think he is vulnerable, I will reconsider. For now, I have utmost confidence in him.

Absolutely!

 

[zab]

I just learned from my daughter that their Cub Scout Troop is planning to disban. My son-in-law, who has been a Cub Scout leader for several years (he is also a convert to the Catholic Faith) is going to head up the Blue Knightsfor boys K-5. It will go well with the Fraternus for teens that we already have in place in our parish. We also have Fidelis in place for the girls. Plans are already in the works to have a crossover ceremony in June for the boys to turn in their Cub Scout uniforms for a Blue Knight or Fraternus uniform.

 

[Brendan]

I know the difference with race all I am saying is I get tired of people looking down on people that are diffarant.** I do not have the right to judge the way anyone lives thats all I am saying**. I really can care less if somone is gay or not. People can live the way they want to.

We do not have the right to judge the state of someone’s immortal soul. That is reserved to God alone.

But we do have the right to judge actions and stated beliefs. Actions are objectively right or wrong, beliefs are either true or untrue.

Note the Spiritual Works of Mercy

The spiritual works of mercy are:
• To instruct the ignorant ;
• To counsel the doubtful ;
• To admonish sinners ;
• To bear wrongs patiently;
• To forgive offences willingly;
• To comfort the afflicted;
• To pray for the living and the dead.

catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7903

If someone is ignorant of the moral truths that the Church teaches, it is an act of Mercy to instruct them

If someone sins, it is an act of Mercy to admonish them.

If we accept what you say is true, and that you cannot judge how others live their lives, then to you there is no difference between the lives of Saddam Hussein and Mother Theresa, as you can make no judgment on their lives. Is that what you are REALLY trying to claim?

 

[holyrood]

If we accept what you say is true, and that you cannot judge how others live their lives, then to you there is no difference between the lives of Saddam Hussein and Mother Theresa, as you can make no judgment on their lives. Is that what you are REALLY trying to claim?

Exactly.

I have found it interesting lately that those who talk the most about not judging are often the quickest to do so. I have a friend who’s all into ‘not judging’ her (supposedly) lesbian daughters and so on, who posts one hateful thing after another on her facebook page about Christians, conservatives, and Republicans. Then I told her about someone I know who’s a swinger in an open marriage…she was very judgmental of swinging and open marriages.

My point being: everyone has opinions about how others live. It’s just funny how it’s only certain demographics who are supposed to be above anyone having an opinion about their behavior. (I stress, BEHAVIOR.)

 

[wynnejj]

This policy change is about nothing less than trying to tell these boys (n.b. - the language specifies “avowed” homosexuals) that their desire to act on their same-sex attraction is a good thing, when both history and the Church teach us otherwise.

To those who have good motivations for wanting this change, it is to correct abuse by scout leaders and local councils that expel an immature boy who unwisely discloses his sexual orientation among friends from being drummed out of a wholesome environment that might help the boy where society (and maybe his immediate family) is failing him.

To those who oppose this proposal, it represents the burning of the flag of traditional marriage and family values, something that the BSA seemed to be one of the last bastions of hope in a free sex society whose management is governed by an electorate largely of broken homes and families. We have no “Daddies” to teach us right from wrong. All we have is “Mama” to give us our entitlements and tell us we’re all good little boys from the hood who don’t need a daddy.

Actually the BSA in its policy decision is true to its calling as self-described to some extent. It is non-sectarian but reverent / respectful of the various faith-based denominations. What has changed is the aggregate nature of the collection of the faith-based communities, many whose constituents are leaning toward same-sex marriage and gay adoption legalization.

One can choose to work within the BSA to push for traditional values, or one can opt to leave and form other organizations that refuse to go to the neutral corner on traditional values. The bottom line is that the first responsibility to train kids belongs to the parents, not the church, not society, not group-think. And I would caution too, it is not the kids. Too many have said that they would support their kids … that’s the tail wagging the dog … if what we are talking about is safeguarding their moral values. It is all well and good to listen to take into account the kid’s interests, but it is important for parents to set the boundaries within their prudential judgement of risk factors that would destroy their kid’s morals.

 

[buffalo]

I know the difference with race all I am saying is I get tired of people looking down on people that are diffarant. I do not have the right to judge the way anyone lives thats all I am saying. I really can care less if somone is gay or not. People can live the way they want to.

How about if you neighbor is a convicted child molester? Not even the least amount of concern?

 

[buffalo]

We absolutely have the right to judge the actions of another person. What we must not judge is the state of their soul, or condemn them for things which are not objectively bad. Every person has control of their actions. This policy change is about nothing less than trying to tell these boys (n.b. - the language specifies “avowed” homosexuals) that their desire to act on their same-sex attraction is a good thing, when both history and the Church teach us otherwise.

Those with same-sex attractions have the same two choices that every one of us sinners has when any one of us is faced with the temptation to sin: Obey God or not. “Gay rights” activists act like the temptations faced by those with SSA are somehow different that what the rest of us face. If there is one thing Satan is not, it is creative. Temptation is temptation, and sin is sin. Would you support the Scouts allowing those who are “Avowed masturbators” or “Avowed thieves” to join?

God has made His teaching regarding homosexual acts very clear, despite what revisionist “scholars” would have you believe. “Avowed homosexuals” are those who have chosen not only to ignore what God has revealed - through both the Church and through history - but who have chosen to reduce their entire dignity and identity to what they like to do with their genitals.

I’m seriously considering returning my Eagle award over this betrayal of the Scout Oath and Law. They have failed in their duty to God, and they have failed to be Trustworthy, Loyal, Obedient, Clean, or Reverent.

What you posted seems to be so hard for many to grasp. Good post.

 

[buffalo]

Wow never mind if you don’t get forget it about it. The church does not say you have the ruight to judge anyone. All I am saying is I think that its a good they are allowing these boys to join. I don’t need all your following this following that. If you think its right to judge then go ahead I don’t really care thats up to you. And just because I don’t belive 100% of everything does not mean I am a bad Catholic.

The Bible itself speaks of fraternal correction and judgement. Look it up.

If you join a golf club and the rule is never to wear jeans and you wear jeans because you want to, what is your status within the club?

 

[buffalo]

I do what I can. Don’t get me wrong, I totally respect a decision to distance one’s boys from the BSA, and if my pack decides to cut and run, I will back that decision. However, I personally prefer to stay and hold the line, morally. Who knows? Maybe it will help some unfortunate boy who has fallen for the homosexual lie to get his life and moral compass in order.

How so? The next step will be to affirm them as the laws are already starting to take shape.

Same sex so called marriage and its offshoots and religious liberty cannot coexist. One will fall, guess which one?

 

[buffalo]

I like how so called good Catholics like you make new Catholics like me feel good about being here. Once again it would be nice to meet you peace out

There is no question that sometimes these forums get ugly. It is because of the format. But, please be patient and stick it out. We all can learn a lot by considering what the other side posts. Each has to have a chance to “digest” it.

There is no need to make enemies here.

 

[buffalo]

“If anyone causes one of these little ones–those who believe in me–to stumble, it would be better for them to have a large millstone hung around their neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea.”- Matthew 18:6

Bingo! We as a society have allowed this to happen a little at a time over the last 50 years.

 

[fix]

Fix, by emphasizing the following portion of the article I shared, are you claiming that slippery slope claims are justified?

"Perry acknowledged that this policy change will not satisfy the homosexual-rights lobby, pointing out that, ‘while some people wish the proposed resolution would go further, it was clear from our listening phase that changing adult standards would have conflicted with the majority of our partners, 70% of which are religious organizations, and would have disrupted our ability to deliver scouting.’

Indeed, homosexual-rights activists were quick to say this was only the beginning for them."

There is a slippery slope and more will follow. I pointed out the Bishop correctly said that first the BSA said nothing will change and then they changed. That is perfect evidence that they cannot be trusted. Anything goes and will go.

The article, as written, is almost contradictory. It seems the Catholics accept it was a wrong decision but want to try and accent the positive in hopes they can save what they can. These are not dumb people. They know what is coming,

 

[armyross]

There is no question that sometimes these forums get ugly. It is because of the format. But, please be patient and stick it out. We all can learn a lot by considering what the other side posts. Each has to have a chance to “digest” it.

There is no need to make enemies here.

Ok I want to change my mind you have helped me with that. First I don’t support people being gay and I am working on becoming a better Catholic. What I should have said is that we should be helping these kids out with there problems that’s all. I have to be carful how I say things. I am paid by our government to defend and stand up for all Americans its my job. Does not mean I agree with all that I have to do but I do it. So to clear this up after reading all the posts I have changed my stand I do not agree with allowing gays into BSA the main reason is it says its ok. At that age they should not even be thinking about sex.

 

[armyross]

We do not have the right to judge the state of someone’s immortal soul. That is reserved to God alone.

But we do have the right to judge actions and stated beliefs. Actions are objectively right or wrong, beliefs are either true or untrue.

Note the Spiritual Works of Mercy

catholic.org/encyclopedia/view.php?id=7903

If someone is ignorant of the moral truths that the Church teaches, it is an act of Mercy to instruct them

If someone sins, it is an act of Mercy to admonish them.

If we accept what you say is true, and that you cannot judge how others live their lives, then to you there is no difference between the lives of Saddam Hussein and Mother Theresa, as you can make no judgment on their lives. Is that what you are REALLY trying to claim?

This is what I love about this site I can come in here with a certain way of thinking. And then you guys have some great knowledge. I agree with your post 100%. Like I already said I did a 180% turn around on how I was thinking. Thanks

 

[buffalo]

Ok I want to change my mind you have helped me with that. First I don’t support people being gay and I am working on becoming a better Catholic. What I should have said is that we should be helping these kids out with there problems that’s all. I have to be carful how I say things. I am paid by our government to defend and stand up for all Americans its my job. Does not mean I agree with all that I have to do but I do it. So to clear this up after reading all the posts I have changed my stand I do not agree with allowing gays into BSA the main reason is it says its ok. At that age they should not even be thinking about sex.

I have posted several times we should be looking to raise the bar instead of continually lowering it. The Scouts is all about raising the bar and helping boys become better versions of themselves.

We are in agreement. We should be looking to help strengthen marriage and families (which in turn help society and lower enforcement and litigation costs) not lowering standards of behavior.

This is a great place for every poster to “test” his thinking.

 

[wynnejj]

There is a slippery slope and more will follow. I pointed out the Bishop correctly said that first the BSA said nothing will change and then they changed. That is perfect evidence that they cannot be trusted. Anything goes and will go.

The article, as written, is almost contradictory. It seems the Catholics accept it was a wrong decision but want to try and accent the positive in hopes they can save what they can. These are not dumb people. They know what is coming,

In that the Catholic responses virtually said nothing, one might argue the point of whether they were “dumb” people. You know the old wisecrack … you know they’re lying because their lips are moving … the new one about our Catholic steering committees might be … you know they’re dumb because their lips are moving.

I take exception to the idea that the BSA cannot be trusted. BSA executive board put forward their proposal, but the national council voted on it. Unless we’re arguing chads and dimples here, that’s a fact.

What you are saying is that traditional values have outgrown the BSA because the definition of “morally straight” in the BSA is morally relativistic. The salt has lost its flavour and is useless.

 

[armyross]

I have posted several times we should be looking to raise the bar instead of continually lowering it. The Scouts is all about raising the bar and helping boys become better versions of themselves.

We are in agreement. We should be looking to help strengthen marriage and families (which in turn help society and lower enforcement and litigation costs) not lowering standards of behavior.

This is a great place for every poster to “test” his thinking.

Right on the money. Not to get of the subject but what do you think when it comes to the internet I feel if we controlled what on the internet (porn) do you think we would have a lot of our problems we have today. I just remember growing up have the stuff I hear today I never heard or seen of before.

 

[rlg94086]

Ok I want to change my mind you have helped me with that. First I don’t support people being gay and I am working on becoming a better Catholic. What I should have said is that we should be helping these kids out with there problems that’s all. I have to be carful how I say things. I am paid by our government to defend and stand up for all Americans its my job. Does not mean I agree with all that I have to do but I do it. So to clear this up after reading all the posts I have changed my stand I do not agree with allowing gays into BSA the main reason is it says its ok. At that age they should not even be thinking about sex.