Boys will be boys—and should be, to become true men

[Pattylt]

I realize that when medication was first used for ADHD treatment it was over prescribed and dosages were too large but haven’t they improved immensly? I really hope so as we are looking into medication for my granddaughter.

She was a micropremie and is at grade level in math but way behind in her reading skills as well as any fine motor skill…her handwriting is barely legible.

My daughter was determined to not use medication but now the reality of her poor reading…and plenty of tutoring…it’s just scary how far behind she it! And she can concentrate like crazy on something she enjoys but she hates reading because she’s not good at it and not good at it because she hates it…a viscous cycle that we are hoping to break.

 

[StarMapp]

Catholic child development must always include firstly, a good teaching of what God expects of every individual while they live in this temporal world. As children we were taught the meaning of scripture, to memorize prayers, and to understand the consequences of sin. In basic form we were taught the liturgy, which we can see in the numerous miniature missals we can only find at flea markets and sales. These still have the child’s name on the inside cover, a reminder of those happy days where a child became a true soldier of Christ, and godparents took seriously their part in their lives. My family during my upbringing, as it was in other Catholic families, was the micro world that set the context of this teaching environment for me while I was going to Catholic school. There are two crucial entities that are necessary for the development of children. Together, the family and Catholic school became the traditional means to teach Christian principles. This has worked through the ages. It is the breakup of this dual teaching body in many ways that we begin to see the beginnings of empathy and it’s effects such has assisted death, abortion, and cruelty to animals. The remedy is rooted in the practice and teaching of charity. The development of Catholic children has lost the cooperation of this bond which we owe them through tradition. As well, I feel the advent of the dual working spouse found it’s own chinks in the structure of family. I think the solution can be found in the repair of the basic structures of our tradition.

Fr. Ripperger has an e-article that speaks of timetables of this underpinning of tradition. He sees even earlier beginnings of this break in tradition.

 

[Jim-Eustachius]

Yeah I don’t agree with that, Jesus himself was a masculine man who was the son of a carpenter (step son?) and wasn’t afraid to flip over tables at the local synagogue when people were trying to profit there so what are you talking about?

 

[CRV]

There is a new book out on this topic Esto Vir written by a priest. I have not read it, but the Description says it all.

For those interested in this book, I’ve found this article which gives more details. Rediscovering the masculine genius

 

[Michael_Anthony]

Further, I believe it was a priest, or a Saint who said that any job (or thing really) a man can do, is inherently masculine, and vise versa, there are some things unique (like being a Father/Mother) and some not (like playing musical instruments), and in those cases the masculinity/feminity is derived from the person and their approach, not the act itself.

 

[PJH_74]

Perhaps I had in mind more the ADHD variant. I have seen boys at my son’s former school medicated into zombies. That can’t be good.

I have reason to believe that medications were used to make the boys more docile. And that can’t be good either, unless the boys were absolutely off the chain, which not all of them were. A good friend of mine taught in Catholic schools for 14 years and she recommended against the use of ADD/ADHD medications unless it were truly, truly necessary.

It’s understandable you may have had ADHD in mind, that’s mainly what I responded. The other thing about my son is that he has been diagnosed with what’s called sensory processing disorder. I can see people rolling their eyes saying, look another justification for the way a child acts. It’s not just a parent saying this, my son is truly a very thoughtful and affectionate kid, well beyond his years. He’s also a very intelligent one, which is apparent to all who meet him, and he is well aware of himself.

However, the sensory processing part is about how he acts a times. It means that he either seeks intense physical (name removed by moderator)ut or is stressed by certain (name removed by moderator)uts that are too much. For example our sink food grinder easily overwhelms him, but getting him to settle down for bed tonight required things like us rolling over him with our bodies and being bopped on the head with pillows maybe 20 times.

But here’s the thing, I tell him frequently these diagnoses are not an excuse. They are something that allows us to raise him with resources to help him cope, but in the end he will ultimately be responsible for himself. I have a strong sense that the sort of up bring advocated be the author here would harm my child because it frequently involves little exception for his situation. I hope that people can see that personal responsibility is at the core of his upbringing, it just doesn’t look traditional.

 

[Michael_Anthony]

empathy is good, so I must conclude you intended a different word. While sometimes (perhaps normally not the ideal, the dual working parents dates back to before the medieval era where both shared the farm work though often in different ways.

 

[twf]

old Hollywood musicals, jazz

By the “John Wayne” standards of masculinity expressed by some conservative Americans on CAF, this alone makes you a bonafide queer, communist, feminist, good for nothing…

I exaggerate slightly…

Of course, these same guys probably struggle to understand that traditionally Catholic priests tended to use a LOT of lace (look at the ICRSS priests…) and yet were very masculine. Or that prior to the early 20th century, little boys were decked up in pink and little girls in blue…

 

[twf]

As well, I feel the advent of the dual working spouse found it’s own chinks in the structure of family. I think the solution can be found in the repair of the basic structures of our tradition.

Dual working spouses, as you put it, is very traditional… many would point to Medieval Europe as the pinnacle of Christian society. Both the husband and wife worked…they both worked in and around the home…tending the fields around the home, brewing beer, etc… from the perspective of a Catholic medieval peasant, even the idea of the father going off to a distant factory to work, while the mother stays home, is novel. I don’t know why the norms of 1950 America are suddenly “traditional” Catholic values.

 

[ewohdrol]

You sound like my husband!

He is not stereotypically ‘masculine’. That is probably why these threads derail. The extreme ‘alpha male’ types make these sweeping statements of what a man is. And in the process loses the support of many of their audience.

Happens in threads of what makes a female also.

 

[Thorolfr]

Perhaps I had in mind more the ADHD variant. I have seen boys at my son’s former school medicated into zombies. That can’t be good.

I have reason to believe that medications were used to make the boys more docile. And that can’t be good either, unless the boys were absolutely off the chain, which not all of them were. A good friend of mine taught in Catholic schools for 14 years and she recommended against the use of ADD/ADHD medications unless it were truly, truly necessary.

ADHD is not a variant of ADD. Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) is an old term. Now, the only term used in the DSM is Attention-Deficit/Hyperactivity Disorder (ADHD), but there are three subtypes. There is ADHD-Combined Presentation which has both the inattentive and hyperactive-impulsive symptoms; ADHD-Predominantly Inattentive Presentation which mostly has the inattentive symptoms; and ADHD-Hyperactive-Impulsive Presentation which mostly has the hyperactive and impulsive symptoms without much of the inattentive symptoms. Most people are either Combined Presentation or Predominantly Inattentive Presentation.

And personally, I think it’s a mistake not to use the medication, and preferably a stimulant medication, if someone really has ADHD. I have a young relative who was diagnosed with ADHD as a child and his parents decided against medication. But he didn’t do well in school and now has a low paying, deadend job as a young adult.

I have ADHD but am from an older generation when children were less likely to be diagnosed, especially those who had the Predominantly Inattentive Presentation. And when I was a young adult in college, most doctors still mistakenly believed that ADHD was something that only children had. It wasn’t until later that I finally got diagnosed, and taking a stimulant medication has greatly improved my life. Unfortunately, my career had been seriously damaged by then because it took me so long to get diagnosed and get treatment for my ADHD. I think that it can really ruin someone’s life if they have ADHD and don’t get effective treatment for it when they’re younger and later as an adult, too.

 

[Socrates92]

A much more effective option would be to send the hyperactive boys out to participate in some high-intensity sport for at least 1-2hrs per day. Once you’re physically exhausted, there’s much less need to medicate for fidgetyness.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

So only because of the “post-industrial world” not requiring hard labor, women are now somehow able to achieve some equality?

Actually I agree with this statement, let me explain.

People can be aware of an injustice but literally not have enough time to address it, if their waking hours are filled with the tasks of bodily survival.
It takes time to get the word out, to organize, to do the things necessary to make change happen.
That’s why the American Revolution was led by rich people who had enough time to do it.
It has nothing to do with the rightness or wrongness of the cause.

 

[Lifeisbeautiful3]

OP shared: “How can we bring back the masculine ideal, which has become a casualty of today’s cultural confusion?” This article goes on to describe historical masculine behaviors: “… [to] drive herds of large animals, fight enemies, dredge harbors, dig canals, clear fields, hew stone from the earth, lay roads…”

The article wants boys to be raised differently - to be masculine. Presumably, the author would hope for girls to be more feminine.

The risk I point out is that this construct could be dangerous if/when a person raised to be masculine must also exhibit feminine behaviors (e.g. to raise children if his spouse could not). What then?

 

[Irishmom2]

Irishmom2:

No, that’s not how it works. edwest made a comment which I questioned.

Well how about we both want to know why the statement in question is true or not?

I really think you need to ask your own question then. You obviously are after something else. I asked another poster to defend their assertion that something was not true.

 

[on_the_hill]

but getting him to settle down for bed tonight required things like us rolling over him with our bodies and being bopped on the head with pillows maybe 20 times.

I can understand this. My older daughter is 20 and I think she still needs that sort of roughhousing to get herself settled sometimes.

 

[on_the_hill]

A much more effective option would be to send the hyperactive boys out to participate in some high-intensity sport for at least 1-2hrs per day. Once you’re physically exhausted, there’s much less need to medicate for fidgetyness.

It can help, and it helps me, but it’s not consistent. It’s not the body that’s hyperactive, it’s the brain. The brain can still go haywire.

 

[on_the_hill]

I’m inattentive. In a big way.

 

[Lea101]

The risk I point out is that this construct could be dangerous if/when a person raised to be masculine must also exhibit feminine behaviors (e.g. to raise children if his spouse could not). What then?

I can throw in a somewhat personal example:

my dad never really learnt to be a nurturer. My mother wasn’t that much of a nurturer but she was relatively better than my father. When my mother passed away, my dad tried to pick up some of her responsibilities (eg cleaning and cooking) which he enjoyed. But he really really sucked at the nurturing department. He honestly did not know how to handle us when any of us were upset or hurt.

When asked about this, he simply claimed it was always my mother’s job and that as a man, it’s inherently impossible for him to care as much. Which is ridiculous, of course.

When you only strictly emphasise stereotypical masculinity or femininity in a child, you miss encouraging the development of certain traits. Even when you try to define masculinity and femininity through a Christian lens, you can’t help but admit both women and men need to live up to these ideals.

And when life hits them…good luck, honestly. It reminds me about how helpless many women were when they were divorced or widowed, back in the days.

 

[0Scarlett_nidiyilii]

I’m a substitute school nurse and I can assure you ADHD is a real thing.
The difference between a high-energy kid and ADHD is like this.

High energy kid come into the office and is told to take a seat. They sit and wiggle and swing their legs and talk out of turn and sometimes forget to sit and have to be reminded.

ADHD kiddo comes into the office, rushes right up to the desk, needs to be told several times to take a seat, proceeds to bounce from chair to chair, to the floor, to the chair across the room, either chattering or touching stuff the whole time.
It’s kind of like watching a popcorn in a popper.
They’re often really sweet kids, but paying attention is a real challenge for them.