Breastfeeding and the breast

[OraLabora]

Given that the Catholic Church is universal, and that standards of modesty vary somewhat around the world, I don’t think the Church has ever gone beyond requiring “modesty” in Church.

The Pope has said that women should be able to breastfeed in church. There’s nothing immodest about feeding a child, it can be done in a very discreet manner. It’s a natural… and necessary… act.

 

[SusanneT]

Breastfeeding is a beautiful and natural part of motherhood. But it can and should be done within the bounds of modesty.

 

[Anicette]

We found a lot of references in the Bible to breastfeeding. Whereas at a litteral sense (nutrition) or at a symbolical sense.

Search “mystical lactation”. St Bernard de Clairvaux had received some milk from the breast of the Virgin Mary during a prayer…

During the most of prehistory and history, humans have no choice: they are breastfeed by their mother, or by another woman. If it wasn’t it was death almost sure for the child. So, these questions about morality about breastfeeding in public was completely out of context: mothers breastfeed, and a lot of have others activities to achieve to survive, so they didn’st stop to nurse. They do it in the middle of others activities.

European sociey seems to had more difficulties with breastfeeding than some others, because of the higly use of wet nurse.
It is only since the late XIXth that artificial milk and bottle began an alternative to breasts.

Seriously, if an exceptant mother worry more of exposing her breasts than breastfeeding, great chances are that she will stop very soon. It happened all time.

Just to conclude: as others said: nothing wrong to breastfeed in public. And it is not immoral if sometimes a breast is seen while breastfeeding.

 

[Anicette]

I have to use one consultant (for long term) for my second…
I have a lot of experience and knwoledge, but as my consultant said, when mothers had a child that does not take enough weight gain, it is often not the first… because we can multiply love, but not time.

Sorry to made an out of topic!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

People have been breastfeeding at Mass my whole life. They’re generally discreet about it. Some go out to the vestibule, some go in the cry room, some stay in the pew. It’s not a big deal and obviously everyone is modest.

 

[Lormar]

I deleted my post

 

[JulianN]

How would you define that?

 

[babochka]

Breastfeeding is a beautiful and natural part of motherhood. But it can and should be done within the bounds of modesty.

But those bounds of modesty vary from culture to culture. In some cultures, bringing out the entire breast to feed your baby is not immodest. In the United States, it seems to vary widely. We don’t have a monolithic cultural standard on this or any modesty issue.

I nursed all my babies in church, in the pew, without a nursing cover. Some people will be offended at this, but my breast was never exposed, except perhaps for a brief moment during the time when the baby latched on, but I made sure to do that part discretely. I consider that modest, but in my circles, a nursing cover seems to be de rigueur. I always felt just a little scandalous, but my babies could breathe and we were both more comfortable. One of the nicest things about nursing a baby is the eye contact and interaction between mother and child. It is actually a part of the design. It isn’t all about the nutrition. It is hard to have that contact with a blanket over your shoulder.

Others disagree that there is any modest way to breastfeed in public at all, even with a blanket or nursing cover. I mean, if woman has a cover over her shoulder, it is kind of obvious that she is nursing and she thus draws attention to herself.

I once had lunch with a (male) friend when one of my babies was really little, just a couple of months old, in a sling. I was nursing my baby In the sling and he could see nothing. This poor guy was so bothered by the very idea that I was nursing in public, even though he admitted that he couldn’t see anything. It was just the idea of it. He wouldn’t have even known if I hadn’t mentioned it. I had no idea he would be so disturbed by the concept.

 

[babochka]

plan ahead by bringing a blanket or some other covering. Plopping out her breast right out in the open is not the best choice.

There is something in-between. If you just pull up your shirt a bit, the baby covers the breast. You really have to be staring to see anything.

 

[dochawk]

I really need stronger glasses . . . I read that name as JimmyToddler . . . and in this thread, of all places . . .:crazy_face:

 

[Pattylt]

I pretty much always nursed my babies in private. First, because this was in the 1970’s and nursing babies was very rare…it was just starting to come back. Second, because my children did NOT like to be covered over and were the noisiest feeders you ever heard!

Today, I’m not sure if I could openly nurse as the problems are still there unless I specifically wanted to make the statement that I was nursing a child. I tend to not like drawing attention to myself so would stick to private areas. At least many places now have private areas! No one did back then.

 

[babochka]

. Remembering, of course, that the Church has taught that there are minimum modesty standarda that apply to all cultures,

What are those modesty standards? I am only aware of principles of modesty that the Church gives, not a list of standards that is meant to apply, as a minimum, to all people in all places.

I am particularly aware of the teaching on modesty found in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which states:

Modesty protects the intimate center of the person. It means refusing to unveil what should remain hidden. It is ordered to chastity to whose sensitivity it bears witness. It guides how one looks at others and behaves toward them in conformity with the dignity of persons and their solidarity.

[2522] Modesty protects the mystery of persons and their love. It encourages patience and moderation in loving relationships; it requires that the conditions for the definitive giving and commitment of man and woman to one another be fulfilled. Modesty is decency. It inspires one’s choice of clothing. It keeps silence or reserve where there is evident risk of unhealthy curiosity. It is discreet.

[2523]There is a modesty of the feelings as well as of the body. It protests, for example, against the voyeuristic explorations of the human body in certain advertisements, or against the solicitations of certain media that go too far in the exhibition of intimate things. Modesty inspires a way of life which makes it possible to resist the allurements of fashion and the pressures of prevailing ideologies.

Particularly relevant to this discussion is the following (emphasis mine):

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another. Everywhere, however, modesty exists as an intuition of the spiritual dignity proper to man. It is born with the awakening consciousness of being a subject. Teaching modesty to children and adolescents means awakening in them respect for the human person.

Considering the large number of exposed breasts in sacred images of the Virgin Mary breastfeeding our Lord, it is clear that the Church does not consider the exposed breast to be immodest in every context.

 

[whatistrue]

standards which are objectively superior

Every time I see something like this I am reminded of the quote in “Caesar and Cleopatra” by George Bernard Shaw:

“Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.”

 

[blackforest]

2524 The forms taken by modesty vary from one culture to another

I worked with a refugee family from the Congo and took them to a public park. A young mom in the extended family, about eighteen years old, matter-of-factly removed her entire shirt and started breastfeeding - right there at the picnic table on a sunny day. Mind you, this was in Portland, where it’s hard to shock anybody. If anyone noticed or got huffy about it, none of us were aware.

 

[Anicette]

your post make me smile.

Obviousely you have not the experience of a baby that would not accept a blanket or anything!
And when they become toddler they are less and less tolerent, and some don’t even accept a tee shirt standing abovetheir head. They serves themselves and keep everything away!

I don’t understand how a baby can breathe easily outside a blacket.

And obviously not to mentionned to have two babies at the breasts!

And for the planning, sorry but… not the best advise here!

 

[Anicette]

I agree that we need more private areas. Not only to hide babies, but to isolated babies that perfered or don’t want to nurse in public!

 

[babochka]

https://www.google.com/url?q=http:/...FjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw2983iPiMH04-rkvFhpWUEH

-A PDF of what constitutes “Christian modesty” in dress of women.

The specific standards of modesty listed in this document, the “Marylike” standards, were given to a particular audience in a particular time and place. They do not have universal scope or authority.

Http://pamphlets.org.au/docs/cts/oregon/html/ctsormor057.html

-where he talks about there “always (being) an absolute norm to be preserved”

I have asked what those absolutes are and do not find them in this document. Instead, I find this:

It is always difficult to indicate with universal norms the border-line between seemliness and shamelessness because the moral evaluation of attire depends on many factors. However, the so-called relativity of fashions with respect to times, places, persons, and education is not a valid reason to renounce a priori a moral judgment on this or that fashion which, for the time being, violates the limits of normal decency.

Yet, no matter how broad and changeable the relative morals of styles may be, there is always an absolute norm to be kept after having heard the admonition of conscience warning against approaching danger: style must never be a proximate occasion of sin.

If my conscience has warned me against a particular style of clothing, that is the absolute norm which I must keep. It does not necessarily apply to anybody else. And while my conscience would speak out against a style of clothing that deliberately and provocatively exposes my breast, my conscience also recognizes that exposing the breast for the purposes of feeding a child is not a matter of style.

I actually found this document to be very interesting. Thank you for sharing. It is clear that it is about fashion and style. Societies in which it is the norm to bare the breasts for any reason whatsoever, or perhaps because clothing which covers the breasts is unknown, are not concerned with fashion and style.

 

[Jerusha]

Babies who do not like to nurse under a lightweight blanket or with a tee shirt covering the breast are babies who got used no cover when Mom nurses in the privacy of home. Use a cover everywhere and there is no problem. As for toddlers, once they learn to massage one breast while nursing at the other, there is no stopping them! LOL

 

[babochka]

Babies who do not like to nurse under a lightweight blanket or with a tee shirt covering the breast are babies who got used no cover when Mom nurses in the privacy of home. Use a cover everywhere and there is no problem. As for toddlers, once they learn to massage one breast while nursing at the other, there is no stopping them! LOL

Oh, man, I hope you’re joking. It’s hard to tell.

Some babies just like to breathe. Some babies and mothers just like to gaze upon each other lovingly, as God’s design makes possible. Do you know that the distance that newborns can clearly see is approximately the distance from the breast to the mother’s face?

 

[Azaryahtt]

Similar thing happened to me , only my reaction seemed a bit awkward, as I immediately jump out of my seat just seconds after having sit down ,