Breitbart...Pope Francis: Pandemic Has Taught ‘the Greatness of Science, but also Its Limits’

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phil3 said:
So having the lowest mortality death rate of the Western civilization world isnt enough?
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Not even close actually… America is great, not ordinary.

Having the highest number of infections by far, having the a high number of hospitalizations, have many, many, many deaths is not good enough… not by a long shot especially when simple leadership would have averted many of the challenges… and deaths.

A low mortality rate when you have a high death count doesn’t count for much… compare the mortality rate to China and let me know what you find… we have the most deaths by far

Our response in the US has been deplorable

Try the facts on for size yourself
 
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phil3 said:
Science will ultimately provide the solution to COVID-19. As we get more knowledge about the virus, there will be better treatment and sooner or later a vaccine.
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As I pointed out in my previous post containing the views of professors, science may already have provided a cure but politics and greed by Big Pharma and corporate media are squashing it.

There is still no vaccine for HIV. They use a combo or “cocktail” of treatments.

COVID may end up with something similar except they will approve a vaccine even if it does not meet typical safety and efficacy requirements. The vax is too big to fail, even if it in reality is a failure. Hopefully they will come up with a helpful and reasonably safe vaccine for high risk folks.

Has there ever been a successful vaccine for a coronavirus? I’m not aware of one.

“After suckering us into ruinous lockdown awaiting rescue by vaccine… FDA is now willing to license COVID vaccines with a dismal 50%–and as low as 30%–efficacy, a humiliating retreat from the Gates/Fauci promise of a vaccine they intend to give to seven billion people in order for society to get back to “normal”. Equally deflating, NIH’s Tony Fauci conceded that vaccine immunity may only last a few months…”


The Well-Known Hazards of Coronavirus Vaccines with Robert Kennedy Jr
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/...05/10/is-there-a-vaccine-for-coronavirus.aspx
 
Joegrane said:
The Well-Known Hazards of Coronavirus Vaccines with Robert Kennedy Jr
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I listened to this. Thank you! This is very interesting. Robert Kennedy didn’t make any wild claims. Yes…he’s suspicious of some things, but this is a sane man. He’s right. We’ve never had a Covid vaccine that was safe.

Especially like what Robert Kennedy said here
Marks’s justified FDA’s willingness to license jabs with a pathetic 30-50% efficacy citing industry convenience. “Can we show you some calculation of how we got there? No,” he confessed, adding “If you go much lower than 50% then the lower bounds of things start to get to a place where vaccines may have very little efficacy…On the other hand, if we held that number at 70% to 80% … we may not have a vaccine until there’s herd immunity that’s occurred naturally.”
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Looking at Sweden’s numbers it’s not rocket science to understand herd immunity is coming quickly, and it’s going to take a while to get a safe an effective vaccine. This is a real problem. I wasn’t aware of what Robert Kennedy was saying, and I was concerned about the same thing.
 
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jack63 said:
Christian values of simply finding the truth aren’t being used as most of the scientific community researches Covid. Perhaps the truth is getting stopped by the major news outlets too.
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Oh, it is absolutely true that corporate media it filtering “news” to suit their sociopolitical agenda and to favor Big Pharma and other advertisers.

For example compare the reporting about Vitamin D and COVID risk at CNN with comments by a Harvard prof and Dr Joseph Mercola.
https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/06/08/cnn-coronavirus-vitamin-d.aspx

Dr Chris Martenson rips CNN for deceptive coverage of hydroxychloroquine studies. Unfortunately it is a 5-10 minute clip as he exposes serious problems with two studies.

This gets to the heart of our discussion. People were doing studies designed to fail, then mainstream media spins the conclusions further for political or other reasons.

Yesterday Covexit.com reported that Facebook shut down their discussion group. Covexit.com interviews COVID researchers!
 
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godisgood77 said:
I think we need an adult in the White House … Down playing the threat was a mistake…
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It seems G’isGood77 is quite good at posting deceptive propaganda for the Left.

In the early weeks of the pandemic in the US Trump closed the borders to visitors from China then Europe. He was criticized by some on the Left.

Around the same time Nancy Pelosi was gathering with groups of people in Chinatown to encourage people to visit.

CBS in San Fran reported about the Chinatown events, “Pelosi easing outbreak fears.”

Since they now know the virus was spreading in California earlier than previously thought, Pelosi’s actions may have cost lives. Trump’s actions very likely saved lives.
 
Joegrane said:
It seems G’isGood77 is quite good at posting deceptive propaganda for the Left
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Deceptive propaganda? Please do explain that comment. Considering I’m not a leftist, nor am I trying to trick anyone … help me understand your accusation, please?
 
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Ideally this thread would be Trump vs. Biden neutral. Politics is no fun anyways. Ideally, the thread would be a discussion and analysis of facts. Let’s forget about politics and talking about politics on CAF. I’m certainly guilty of this too. However, leaving politics out of this thread will make it helpful to people.
 
I read this article recently in the WashingtonPost about thousands people with dementia dying during these Covid lockdowns. They are not dying of Covid, but rather they are dying of isolation. To me this shows the limits of our “coldly” scientific approach to these lockdowns and our response this Covid virus. Where is the love?!

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/2020/09/16/coronavirus-dementia-alzheimers-deaths/?arc404=true
Beyond the staggering U.S. deaths caused directly by the novel coronavirus, more than 134,200 people have died from Alzheimer’s and other forms of dementia since March. That is 13,200 more U.S. deaths caused by dementia than expected, compared with previous years, according to an analysis of federal data by The Washington Post.
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Overlooked amid America’s war against the coronavirus is this reality: People with dementia are dying not just from the virus but from the very strategy of isolation that’s supposed to protect them. In recent months, doctors have reported increased falls, pulmonary infections, depression and sudden frailty in patients who had been stable for years.
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godisgood77 said:
Had we done those things…and had leadership at the national level, we wouldn’t have one of the worst responses on the planet.
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The data from around the world does not support your statement.

The US response seems to have been fairly average based on death rate.

Think about how much better it would have been if the governor of NY and others–mostly on the Left–did not force poorly prepared nursing homes to accept Covid-positive patients. In the early weeks of the pandemic roughly half of the deaths were residents of retirement communities.

The following is a comparison of death rates by the amount of hydroxychloroquine used by the country–None (red), Mixed (yellow), Heavy (green).

You’ll see that the US is NOT among the worst in the world. It is fairly average, similar to Japan, Germany and Switzerland.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Dr Chris Martenson explains the bar graph here.

Of course Pres Trump mentioned hydroxychloroquine at one of his regular press conferences and got criticized. He mentioned it after an infectious disease expert in the NYC area told Trump he thought HCQ would be a game changer.

Apparently HCQ could have been a game-changer along with zinc and antibiotic if there were not so many fake studies–eg, Lancet scandal–or deceptive studies designed to fail.

Yale prof H. Risch thinks tens of thousands of lives were lost due to the corruption related to HCQ. This is an interview of Risch by Laura Ingram, a Catholic convert.

 
Dan123 said:
Some places effectively wiped it out but they responded earlier, more strongly, and they had better compliance with the guidelines issued.
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I’m not convinced of this. Below is an article about Vietnam. They shut down early, were very strict, nearly eliminated Covid, and now Covid is back. It shows the limits of science.
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I think it is less a lack of science and more of a lack of respect for the data from science plus blind, power-hungry, egotistical Left-wing Ideology.

Australia is a good example as explained with a graph by Martenson.

They had a spike in cases and issued a draconian, Left-wing lock-down. The cases went down for quite some time. When they opened up, they got their spike, even bigger than the first one!

This virus is SO infectious that you are not going to be able to avoid it. It binds the ACE2 receptor 1000x more tightly than its closest known relative, a bat virus, says Martenson. This is one reason why some microbiologists think this was manipulated in a lab, not directly from the wild.

It is reasonable to have local lockdowns to avoid over-running your emergency rooms, but once a metropolis is past its spike, you gradually open up, not keep everything shut down for political reasons or to make the public more willing to accept an experimental vaccine.

The good news is that if you wear a mask you will likely receive a smaller viral load leading to a more mild case of Covid.

Also if you avoid low vitamin D numerous studies suggest that your odds are much better. Dr Joseph Mercola and a Harvard professor explain more here–unlike CNN.
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
Joegrane said:
Yale prof H. Risch thinks tens of thousands of lives were lost due to the corruption related to HCQ. This is an interview of Risch by Laura Ingram, a Catholic convert.
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Professor Risch is overstepping his field of expertise and Yale has had to issue it’s own detachment from his opinion.

"We write with grave concern that too many are being distracted by the ardent advocacy of our Yale colleague, Dr. Harvey Risch, to promote the assertion that hydroxychloroquine (HCQ) when given with antibiotics is effective in treating COVID-19, in particular as an early therapeutic intervention for the disease. As his colleagues, we defend the right of Dr. Risch, a respected cancer epidemiologist, to voice his opinions. But he is not an expert in infectious disease epidemiology and he has not been swayed by the body of scientific evidence from rigorously conducted clinical trials, which refute the plausibility of his belief and arguments. Over the last few weeks, all of us have spent considerable time explaining the evidence behind HCQ research, as it applies to early and late stage COVID-19 patients to the scientific community and general public, and now are compelled to detail the evidence in this open letter.

We are seriously alarmed for the safety of patients and the coherence and effectiveness of our national COVID-19 emergency response when misinformation about HCQ is spread and when rigorous scientific evidence and consensus produced by the community of expert researchers in infectious diseases, federal agencies and national and global health organizations are not heeded."

 
The dispute among Yale professors about the value of hydroxycloroquine (HCQ) deserves its own discussion.

The amount of deception about HCQ and similar COVID medicines is staggering. Sadly the statement by the group of Yale professors is pseudo-science intended to deceive-- I’ll explain.

This may be difficult to believe–that large numbers of university professors and government officials would knowingly deceive the public–but I will show the pile of evidence. It is not difficult for average folks to understand.

What is the motive for the deception?

The biggest motive is the sale of vaccines forced on billions of people, but also the additional sales from treatment of side effects from the hastily tested vaccines. Finally by forcing the vaccines on everyone Pharma can avoid studies showing that vaccinated people are sicker than unvaccinated.

The secondary motives are political. Godless socialists on the political Left in the US, Europe, China and elsewhere are fighting against Trump and freedom everywhere. The socialists know that free and economically independent people won’t give up their freedom to power-hungry Leftists unless they are desperate.

Corruption in medical studies is not new. You just don’t hear about it if you listen to “news” funded by Big Pharma advertising. Remember also the large majority of people working in corporate media self-identify as liberal.

A 20-year editor of the New England Journal of Medicine wrote in her book on Big Pharma corruption:

“It is simply no longer possible to believe much of the clinical research that is published."


During World War II it was difficult for people in the Western nations to believe anecdotal reports about Hitler’s atrocities.

Similarly it will be difficult for Christians today to believe that many people in universities and government agencies are so evil that they would knowingly allow tens of thousands of people die by deceiving the public about safe, and readily available treatments.
 
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Joegrane said:
Also if you avoid low vitamin D numerous studies suggest that your odds are much better. Dr Joseph Mercola and a Harvard professor explain more here–unlike CNN.
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BTW…I have no doubt better nutrition (e.g. higher vitamin D levels) will improve a person’s ability to fight disease generally as well as Covid. Why anybody would argue against this is beyond me. CNN actually wrote an article warning people of taking too much vitamin D. Of course you don’t overdose on the stuff, but what is CNN doing?! 🤦‍♂️
 
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CNN is protecting Big Pharma advertisers who want to sell expensive Remdesivir that only is given via IV in the hospital. Big Pharma wants desperate people to accept forced vaccination with poorly tested vaccines.

CNN also wants to protect Obamacare for its friends on the Left. Obamacare provides Big Pharma medical interventions. Unless you have very low vitamin D, you’ll have to pay for vitamin D supplements yourself.

COVID exposes the weaknesses of the Pharma-dominated mainstream medical system and therefore the socialist medical system.

In contrast free and economically independent people could choose a high deductible health plan for serious emergencies plus a health savings plan to be used for integrative medical care for their chronic conditions.

Vitamin D deficiency is not the only nutritional deficiency issue fueling COVID severity. This is a perspective from a natural doctor, including references to studies.
https://www.primarydoctor.org/covid-19-is-a-lack-of-nutrients

CNN’s coverage of hydroxychloroquine–mentioned by Trump–was far worse than its coverage of vitamin D.
 
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US has the most deaths and is bottom 10 in death rate. Clearly one of the worst responses in the world. Driven by he most confused and chaotic response to the pandemic by executive leadership.

200K deaths, 62.5 deaths per 100k people , worse than many of the poor countries that Trump has spoken so ‘fondly’ of… not a picture of American greatness at all.

 
@godisgood77 …thank you for posting. I hear what you are saying, and I think the data you posted is most certainly relevant. However, my very major concern is that this data doesn’t consider some major factors. One very major factor is how early this virus was in the US. A recent article from CNN says Covid was in the US in December.
This study, published last Thursday in the Journal of Medical Internet Research, found a statistically significant uptick in clinic and hospital visits by patients who reported respiratory illnesses as early as the week of December 22.
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Well, CNN is the last to know. Is this really a surprise?! I lived in a major hotspot, and I knew people hospitalized with Covid symptoms earlier than Dec. 22nd. Following that I knew people who had this mysterious respiratory illness throughout January and February. Covid was in the US earlier than other countries. This makes the comparison between other countries not really fair.

I even commented about this back in March…FYI…
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CORONAVIRUS on the move Moral Theology
Honestly, my gut is that the coronavirus has already been in the US for months. Even in the US, we don’t always have the equipment to test for this.
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godisgood77 said:
US has the most deaths…
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The Johns Hopkins data you linked to REFUTES what you wrote?! Are you on drugs?

In contrast, this is what can be expected from a godless socialist government.


“The Chinese regime requires all Chinese to use their cellphones to generate a health code. Only with a green health code are Chinese allowed to move in China now. It’s impossible for a person to cancel his cellphone.”

India has done remarkably well according to the JohnsHopkins list.

India also used hydroxychloroquine extensively. For example, India’s largest slum did much better than the US and most of Europe. They used hydroxychloroqine, zinc, vitamin D, homeopathy. They also did social distancing and contact tracing but how effective do you think that was in a large, dense slum?!

 
I read an interesting article about a published study today…

While some health experts warn of a possible second wave in the coronavirus pandemic, a new study is pointing to signs that COVID-19’s severity may be fading. Researchers at Wayne State University say viral loads from patients are continuing to decrease as the pandemic progresses. This is also showing a connection to a lowering death rate. Dr. Said El Zein and his team analyzed viral loads of SARS-CoV-2, the virus causing COVID-19, coming from patient nasal swabs over two months. From April 4 to June 5, a downward trend in the amount of virus detected in patients at Detroit Medical Center was discovered.
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Dr. El Zein admits the team doesn’t know the exact reason why viral loads are dropping over time
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The limits of science again! This Covid madness could be over within months if this is correct…
 
godisgood77 said:
US has the most deaths and is bottom 10 in death rate.
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A few thoughts here. One, if you believe the data coming from Russia and China I have bridge to sell you. Two, if that scale were displayed correctly, you would see that the US is below the knee of the curve - which is around 4/100k, and the overall mortality rate is actually pretty low (.003%). Three, the US probably leads the world in testing asymptomatic people, and also in reporting any death as the result of covid.
 
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There are people will blame trump for every thing that has gone wrong since he became the president. Forget fact just feeling they hate him.

The USA has the lowest percentage mortality rate of the western world. There is also the estimate that as many as 70,000,000 people in the usa have already had it. That puts the death rate well below 1%
 
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