Bring Your Own Bell/Genl Washing of Feet

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hmmm…
I don’t see the problem with bringing your own bell to mass. We did it to ring in Y2K as well as the first Gloria every Easter season. I never heard anyone say it wasn’t proper…did anyone find this in the GIRM yet?

As for the foot washing, this is my one pet peeve at my parish. One year they started allowing women and within a few years they changed it to washing of hands. I really object to the women thing but I don’t mind the hand washing except that has now been extended to everyone in attendance, and unfortunately (or fortunately) I will be there to “dress” the altar.
 
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frommi:
The statement made is that its noble to maintain ‘12’, but its not necessary.

Liturgical rubrics are not part of the ‘teaching authority of the church’
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Do you mean that these rubrics are not a part of the unchanging and infallible magisterium? You’re correct, they’re not. The competent authority is able to do just that or to delegate the doing of it. We do not, however, have the leisure to disobey the competent authority.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Do you mean that these rubrics are not a part of the unchanging and infallible magisterium? You’re correct, they’re not. The competent authority is able to do just that or to delegate the doing of it. We do not, however, have the leisure to disobey the competent authority.
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I think I agree with you. Probably where we disagree is where exactly that ‘competent authority’ begins and ends…

But let’s thank God for the Lenten miracle of agreeing on at least part of this.
 
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JKirkLVNV:
Do you mean that these rubrics are not a part of the unchanging and infallible magisterium? You’re correct, they’re not. The competent authority is able to do just that or to delegate the doing of it. We do not, however, have the leisure to disobey the competent authority.
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I intended to say “The competent authority has the authority to change a rubric or instruction.” My brain got ahead of my fingers.
 
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bejonama:
Last year at Holy thursday Mass, our new parish priest had the whole congregation process past the holy water font at the back of the church and have their hand washed!!!

I’m seriously thinking about travelling for Mass this Holy Thursday!!
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This is chlling given the symbolism of Pilate washing his hands at a very important time in history…
 
m134e5 said:
Is it in the GIRM? (I haven’t checked- because honestly, to me, reading the GIRM is about as interesting as reading one of Oprah’s Book Club books…ok it’s not that bad, but still it’s pretty boring). And since when do we turn to the USCCB to learn what is and isn’t appropriate in Mass? Every part of the Mass is a big deal. Granted, it is wrong to have a fit when a priest makes an honest mistake, or to be critical when an otherwise good priest is obviously having a bad day, but if we keep letting “little things” slide, then eventually we’ll have a huge mess on our hands- many of us took this attitude for years, and it has become a big problem in many areas.
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Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.

Every part of the Mass is a big deal.
 
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NeelyAnn:
I agree with both ottawork and Tired.

Tired - What you are describing is an innovation. The Holy Father has been really speaking out about these various innovations lately. Cardinal Arinze has also spoke recently on the subject and said that enough is enough.

Rome does get the final say so on the Mass rubrics. We have whacky innovators (perhaps, even well meaning) and even quite a few out right dissidents here in the US. They shun Rome, but this does not mean what they do is okay. There are specific guidelines. Any one who says other wise is incorrect and no amount of them arguing and insisting otherwise will change the truth. We are part of the ROMAN Catholic Church.
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Yes, we do need to follow the guidelines…

No, we are part of the Catholic Church which is comprised of some 20+ churches, by far the largest being the Latin Rite.
 
Nicholas Larkin:
The argument is not a cop-out, but rather, we are Christians, we are Catholics, and we have bigger problems like saving souls, and spreading the Kingdom, which should come before the bell subject. Now if the Mass was doing something terrible, then this would be a problem. I am not sure if you have ever been to any of the Easter Tridium Services at Saint Peter’s Basilica in Rome, but if you have you will recall (I am looking rigt at the paper) it invites each person to bring a bell to be rung during the GLORIA! God bless,& lets save souls! Amen!
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It’s no argument at all – it’s a huge cop-out. In fact, it’s worse than that, it’s an extremely pernicious cop-out! Member “m134e5” hit the nail on the head with:

“…if we keep letting “little things” slide, then eventually we’ll have a huge mess on our hands- many of us took this attitude for years, and it has become a big problem in many areas.”

For what it’s worth, I know of no better resources on Earth than the Mass to spread the Kingdom by bring people to the foot of Calvary.
 
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Chatter163:
Um, the Holy Father may certainly “add to the Mass” if he sees fit. He is above all canon and liturgical law.:o
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You are mistaken. The Pope may not simply add to the Mass as he see fit.
 
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BlestOne:
hmmm…
I don’t see the problem with bringing your own bell to mass. We did it to ring in Y2K as well as the first Gloria every Easter season. I never heard anyone say it wasn’t proper…did anyone find this in the GIRM yet?

As for the foot washing, this is my one pet peeve at my parish. One year they started allowing women and within a few years they changed it to washing of hands. I really object to the women thing but I don’t mind the hand washing except that has now been extended to everyone in attendance, and unfortunately (or fortunately) I will be there to “dress” the altar.
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It’s nothing but an authorized addition to the Mass. An action that is not instructed by the GIRM.
 
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Tired:
You are mistaken. The Pope may not simply add to the Mass as he see fit.
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This depends entirely on what the Pope is proposing and what you’re counting as “the Mass.” He may certainly add prayers (witness HH Pope Leo XIII and the Prayer to Saint Michael, since repressed), or make changes (to language, for example, as long it’s not the actual words of the consecration uttered by Christ).
 
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BlestOne:
hmmm…
I don’t see the problem with bringing your own bell to mass. We did it to ring in Y2K as well as the first Gloria every Easter season. I never heard anyone say it wasn’t proper…did anyone find this in the GIRM yet?

As for the foot washing, this is my one pet peeve at my parish. One year they started allowing women and within a few years they changed it to washing of hands. I really object to the women thing but I don’t mind the hand washing except that has now been extended to everyone in attendance, and unfortunately (or fortunately) I will be there to “dress” the altar.
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I’m confused…you wash feet instead of hands? Do you wash other people’s hands? I’ve never heard of that before.

This is one thing done really well at my parish…well, I guess partly. Our priest washes and kisses the feet of our candidates and catechumens (regardless of gender and age). If women aren’t supposed to be involved then he should stop, but he does this with such humility adn respect that it never crossed my mind he shouldn’t be washing women’s feet until I read it on this forum. It brings tears to my eyes even when I don’t know any of the candidates/catechumens.
 
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Tired:
This is chlling given the symbolism of Pilate washing his hands at a very important time in history…
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this is something I’m worried about this year I will be attending Holy Thursday (out of town) mass and I know that the parish I will have to attend at “washes each others hands” as I 'm visiting relatives I will be with them there that night. I don’t know what to do?
 
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catherine951:
this is something I’m worried about this year I will be attending Holy Thursday (out of town) mass and I know that the parish I will have to attend at “washes each others hands” as I 'm visiting relatives I will be with them there that night. I don’t know what to do?
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If you must attend that Mass, simply don’t allow your hands to be washed. There should be no reason to make a big deal about it, but remain firm.
 
What a great gesture to make, to bless your hands, cleanse them with the water from the baptismal font, made clean to hold the Lord. It gives me goosebumps.
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While I do understand what you are saying and if that is what the washing the hands was about then I would agree that it could be beautifully symbolic. But when it replaces the tradition of washing the apostles feet, it just doesn’t do the same for me.

Besides which I receive on the tongue!!😛

yours in Christ
 
Many of these novelties (such as the ringing of individual bells) are based on what people have seen done in protestant churches, where very often anything goes. Why do we have the non-rubrical unity candle at the sacrament of matrimony? (To mention only one example among many, because I do have to pay attention to my blood pressure.)

Ironically, the seeding works in both directions. In the US, the protestants got the passing of the peace from “us” in its more abusive form. And now a lot of them talk about introducing one of the horrrors of modern Catholic worship, a lone cantor singing into a microphone as the hymn leader, as though it was an idea whose time has come.
 
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jbuck919:
Many of these novelties (such as the ringing of individual bells) are based on what people have seen done in protestant churches, where very often anything goes. Why do we have the non-rubrical unity candle at the sacrament of matrimony? (To mention only one example among many, because I do have to pay attention to my blood pressure.)

Ironically, the seeding works in both directions. In the US, the protestants got the passing of the peace from “us” in its more abusive form. And now a lot of them talk about introducing one of the horrrors of modern Catholic worship, a lone cantor singing into a microphone as the hymn leader, as though it was an idea whose time has come.
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So very true…
 
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jbuck919:
peo
Ironically, the seeding works in both directions. In the US, the protestants got the passing of the peace from “us” in its more abusive form. And now a lot of them talk about introducing one of the horrrors of modern Catholic worship, a lone cantor singing into a microphone as the hymn leader, as though it was an idea whose time has come.
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Cantor ministry is a valid ministry…once again, you are applying your own personal preferences and making it sound like an abuse.
 
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frommi:
Cantor ministry is a valid ministry…once again, you are applying your own personal preferences and making it sound like an abuse.
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And you are looking at something you take for granted because it has been standard for so many years and assuming it is a good thing.

The individual cantor is a matter of convenience in Catholic worship because if you did not have it as an individual “ministry,” there would be no one singing at all, and small wonder considering the ghastly state of vernacular hymnody. No such office existed before we were supposed to sing spontaneously announced “hymns” out of a missalette or now one of the modern Catholic “hymnals” to the tune of a very loud, amplified voice drowning out the fact that nobody is singling along anyway.

Cantors are a cop-out for not having a choir to lead the singing, as is proper. It is common even in parishes with 5000 families of record to have maybe a folk group or contemporary group or whatever they call it these days but no serious choir. That is scandalous.

(I am aware that the term “cantor” is not a new invention and that such a figure, often called a “precentor” is still key in many monastic services, to take one example. That is quite a different story.)
 
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