British "Cardinal Celebrates Ramadan at Home"

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I know we’re all supposed to be outraged, but I suspect there’s more to this story. Was he actually practicing an Islamic ritual, or just having a Muslim friend over for dinner?
 
" Iftar is one of the religious observances of Ramadan, and is often done as a community, with Muslim people gathering to break their fast together. The meal is taken just after the call to prayer Maghrib , which is around sunset. Traditionally three dates are eaten to break the fast, in emulation of the Islamic prophet, Muhammad, who broke his fast in this manner, but this is not mandatory. Many Muslims believe that feeding someone iftar as a form of charity is very rewarding and that such was practised by Muhammad.

en.wikipedia.org

Iftar - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

P.S. The Lockdown and Social Distancing forced him to celebrate it on line:
(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)
 
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I’m failing to see how this “denies Christ,” but hey, whatever floats CM’s boat.
 
Perhaps they feel that the Islamic denial of the doctrine of The Holy Trinity might have something to do with it?
 
IanM said:
Perhaps they feel that the Islamic denial of the doctrine of The Holy Trinity might have something to do with it?
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The question is whether the Cardinal was actually practicing Islam. We all agree that Islam itself is not Christian. That’s obvious and almost a tautology.

Engaging in a meal doesn’t sound like practicing Islam to me. If a non-Christian attends an Easter brunch, I don’t think anyone would say they’ve thereby converted to Christianity. Or if I tell my Jewish friend “happy Hanukkah!” I think we’d all agree i haven’t renounced Christ and converted to Judaism.
 
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Not being an Islamic scholar I have quickly researched this topic and found the following at https://www.al-islam.org/fast-month...-ahkam-yasin-t-al-jibouri/breaking-fast-iftar

Breaking the Fast (Iftar)​

The Glorified and Praised One has said,

"… and eat and drink until the whiteness of the day becomes distinct from the blackness of the night at dawn, then complete the fast till nighttime" (Holy Qur’an, Surah Baqarah 2:187).

The Exalted and Omniscient has clarified in this glorious verse the time to start the fast which is when the white thread can be distinguished from the black one at the time of daybreak, and the time of breaking the fast, at the end of the fast during the entire daytime till the approach of the night.

Since fast in Islam is not merely abstention from eating and drinking, but rather a transformation from a physical state to a spiritual height whereby the Muslim pleases his Maker, Islam has set certain rules for breaking the fast which are derived from the Sunnah of His greatest Prophet and his Progeny, peace and blessings be upon them, which may be enUmarated thus:
  1. the invocations related to the breaking of the fast which take us from the physical state, through our fast, to a spiritual height;
  2. sharing our food with the poor and the indigent, and Muslims breaking their fast with one another; and
  3. foods recommended for breaking the fast.
 
I’m not sure what the rites surrounding this celebration are, but even supposing there’s nothing intrinsically contrary to the truth in it, participating in non-Christian religious observances can give the impression that one religion is as good as another. Acts which present a danger to scandal or indifferentism are forbidden by divine law. Participating in rites that are directly contrary to the truth are also of course forbidden by the same.
 
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IanM said:
Perhaps they feel that the Islamic denial of the doctrine of The Holy Trinity might have something to do with it?
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Eating with someone, whether in person or virtually, is hardly a statement that you accept their theological views.
 
If this man participated in the following procedure, which involves invocations derived from the Sunnah of Mohamed in the breaking of his fast, I do not regard this as a religiously neutral action

"Since fast in Islam is not merely abstention from eating and drinking, but rather a transformation from a physical state to a spiritual height whereby the Muslim pleases his Maker, Islam has set certain rules for breaking the fast which are derived from the Sunnah of His greatest Prophet and his Progeny, peace and blessings be upon them, which may be enUmarated thus:
Code: 
the invocations related to the breaking of the fast which take us from the physical state, through our fast, to a spiritual height;

sharing our food with the poor and the indigent, and Muslims breaking their fast with one another; and

foods recommended for breaking the fast."
(cf my post above)
 
IanM said:
Perhaps they feel that the Islamic denial of the doctrine of The Holy Trinity might have something to do with it?
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I attend a Seder every Passover (via Zoom this year). Have I denied Christ?
 
Is there some sort of problem here? Methinks not. I live in the Middle East and attend iftar meals at the invitation of Muslim friends every year. So do most Christians with Muslim friends or acquaintances.

Articles like this make me smile (mockingly) as it’s obvious that the author intended to incite some sort of outraged backlash but quite clearly did not take the time to research the issue and see whether it was a novel thing that’s never ever been done before.
 
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Are you a Muslim or Christian? And, when you attend, do you follow the prescribed rules listed in post number 7 above concerning the breaking of the fast ?
 
IanM said:
Are you a Muslim or Christian?
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I’m a Catholic.
IanM said:
And, when you attend, do you follow the prescribed rules listed in post number 7 above concerning the breaking of the fast
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No, and actually some of them are new to me. The date eating part is rather common and well-known, and quite logical as it’s best to start slow with eating after fasting for a whole day. Usually when I attend I eat normally and not in stages like Muslim attendees, as I wasn’t fasting and so don’t need to take it slow or else throw up. Sometimes my Muslim friend warns me not to eat as they are preparing something particularly heavy for iftar so I skip lunch. Sharing food with the poor is part and parcel of Ramadan and mosques have free meals or buffets most days. Sometimes when I’m driving through Muslim-majority neighbourhoods during iftar time, charitable Muslims would be standing at traffic lights handing out boxes of sweets.

I’m not sure about the invocations part, as I’ve never witnessed it. I presume it’s done before guests’ arrival, since I believe there is a set of prayers to be said directly at sunset (which is when the fasting period ends). Some Muslims may do optional prayers and delay eating as an extra penance.

Generally iftar airs vary depending on the group you’re with. If the attendees are deeply religious iftars are very serious affairs accompanied by prayer and Koran reading. If you’re having an iftar with cafeteria Muslim friends who only practice during Ramadan or people who aren’t religious it’s practically indistinguishable from a dinner party.
 
IanM said:
Leaving aside whether he took part in the Invocations relating to the breaking of the fast (cf my post above) which if he did not may leave him open to an accusation of blasphemy against the Islamic faith, this man has accrued a lot of baggage during his tenure as President of the Catholic Bishops` Conference of England and Wales. This has led to much disquiet within the ranks of the clergy here
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This stuff is all off topic to the subject of your thread. Furthermore, I am not seeing clergy complaining about the Ramadan business in your original article, except for Nick Donnelly who research indicates may be a deacon although the article doesn’t present him as such.
 
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IanM said:
Leaving aside whether he took part in the Invocations relating to the breaking of the fast (cf my post above) which if he did not may leave him open to an accusation of blasphemy against the Islamic faith, this man has accrued a lot of baggage during his tenure as President of the Catholic Bishops` Conference of England and Wales.
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I’m still curious about what you think of my attendance at Seders. Does it create scandal and confusion to attend any non-Catholic service, or is this just another poorly disguised anti-Islam thread?
 
billsherman said:
Does it create scandal and confusion to attend any non-Catholic service, or is this just another poorly disguised anti-Islam thread?
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Well I cannot speak for others, but I would be scandalised if a Catholic attended a non-Catholic service held by a faith that denied The doctrine of The Holy Trinity.
 
IanM said:
non-Catholic service
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I think you’re misunderstanding what an iftar is. It’s not a “service”. It’s just a meal eaten after a fast. Iftar means “break-fast” in Arabic. Arabic-speaking Christians like myself eat iftars during Lent.

Hope this clears up the issue.
 
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