Bruce Jenner's Début as "Caitlyn"

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“Vile”. “Disgusting”. Those are two words I keep coming across here. How very charitable 🤷

We can sit here and try an excuse our use those words all day long, but it was used to describe gender, not the “mental illness” we can sit here and try an excuse our use of those words all day long, but it was used to describe the person at hand, not the “mental illness”.

Trying to sugarcoat it with “love” doesn’t make it any better.
 
gracepoole said:
It sounds like the problem is with your use of language. “Glamour” doesn’t equal “delicate” or “pretty,” nor does the cover of Vanity Fair equate with these terms. The fact that he has done it at the age of 65 seems to be further indication that his concept of “feminine” isn’t simply about female trappings.
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Isn’t about female trappings. Really? Did you not see the picture in Vanity Fair? He was in a sexy outfit and the man has cleavage!! You really need to think before you post. You make no sense.
 
bibcat said:
To paraphrase John Donne, beware “for whom the belle trolls, she trolls for thee.” 😉
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I’d watch my step, bibcat. Calling someone a troll here is against forum rules. (And describing me this way indicates that you have no knowledge of my 4 years around these parts.)
 
gracepoole said:
I’d watch my step, bibcat. Calling someone a troll here is against forum rules. (And describing me this way indicates that you have no knowledge of my 4 years around these parts.)
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Did I call you a troll? You’re being oversensitive, I think.
 
Patti_M said:
Isn’t about female trappings. Really? Did you not see the picture in Vanity Fair? He was in a sexy outfit and the man has cleavage!! You really need to think before you post. You make no sense.
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You’re really becoming quite ugly when there’s no need to be. Again, you’re demonstrating that you believe Jenner made this change to secure a position on the cover of a magazine (even as you claim this isn’t what you mean). And I’ve noted why that’s a problematic assumption. Step back and take a deep breath. Being transgendered is about far more than wanting to wear pretty clothes and make-up. Read up on the subject. I don’t pretend to fully understand it but it does no one any good to make faulty assumptions about it rather than listening to those who experience it or treat those experiencing it.
 
gracepoole said:
You’re really becoming quite ugly when there’s no need to be. Again, you’re demonstrating that you believe Jenner made this change to secure a position on the cover of a magazine (even as you claim this isn’t what you mean). And I’ve noted why that’s a problematic assumption. Step back and take a deep breath. Being transgendered is about far more than wanting to wear pretty clothes and make-up. Read up on the subject. I don’t pretend to fully understand it but it does no one any good to make faulty assumptions about it rather than listening to those who experience it or treat those experiencing it.
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Wow, I really have nothing more to say to you. You are consumed with feelings and emotions and it is clouding your judgement.
 
gracepoole said:
Actually, the Church has not made any definitive, doctrinal pronouncements about those who are transgendered.
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Mainly because it doesn’t recognize ther is any such thing as transgenderism other than as a mental illness As I said they have explicitly said the only time such surgeries are licit is if a person is born with both sets of genitalia .There is no need for the CHurch to make doctrinal pronouncements about a specific form of mental illness
 
Sometimes I can’t help but feel that evil far outweighs the good in our world. Bruce Jenner is a prime example self-abuse. Without God’s guidance, Satan has placed him under his spell.
 
I am happy to hear this conversation happening among Catholics. I’m just not sure how to articulate my feelings about the Bruce Jenner transgender & gay marriage issue without being painted as intolerant or bigoted. I look forward to hearing more from the EWTN Apologists so that they can help us effectively articulate a response. I’ll admit “disgust” probably describes how I feel inside on both issues, but I recognize that using that word with others who support these “causes” will accomplish nothing. I too have been shocked by how many of my Catholic friends have publicly expressed support of both gay marriage and gender re-assignment. I feel like the Bible and the Church are very clear on both issues. I also feel like we shouldn’t be silent with people within the Church on these issues. People come to the Church for Truth and Salvation and shouldn’t be lulled into a false comfort about these sins. Yes, this may mean becoming very unpopular, but Christ needs his faithful to be honest about His teachings. I’m hoping to find a kind way to be honest. It’s not easy.
 
estesbob said:
Mainly because it doesn’t recognize ther is any such thing as transgenderism other than as a mental illness As I said they have explicitly said the only time such surgeries are licit is if a person is born with both sets of genitalia .There is no need for the CHurch to make doctrinal pronouncements about a specific form of mental illness
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It actually hasn’t even said this.
 
jaxster99 said:
I am happy to hear this conversation happening among Catholics. I’m just not sure how to articulate my feelings about the Bruce Jenner transgender & gay marriage issue without being painted as intolerant or bigoted. I look forward to hearing more from the EWTN Apologists so that they can help us effectively articulate a response. I’ll admit “disgust” probably describes how I feel inside on both issues, but I recognize that using that word with others who support these “causes” will accomplish nothing. I too have been shocked by how many of my Catholic friends have publicly expressed support of both gay marriage and gender re-assignment. I feel like the Bible and the Church are very clear on both issues. I also feel like we shouldn’t be silent with people within the Church on these issues. People come to the Church for Truth and Salvation and shouldn’t be lulled into a false comfort about these sins. Yes, this may mean becoming very unpopular, but Christ needs his faithful to be honest about His teachings. I’m hoping to find a kind way to be honest. It’s not easy.
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I agree with everything you wrote here.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Sometimes I can’t help but feel that evil far outweighs the good in our world. Bruce Jenner is a prime example self-abuse. Without God’s guidance, Satan has placed him under his spell.
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He has described himself as a Christian.
 
Finite said:
“Vile”. “Disgusting”. Those are two words I keep coming across here. How very charitable 🤷

We can sit here and try an excuse our use those words all day long, but it was used to describe gender, not the “mental illness” we can sit here and try an excuse our use of those words all day long, but it was used to describe the person at hand, not the “mental illness”.

Trying to sugarcoat it with “love” doesn’t make it any better.
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I think that conservatives lost the gay marriage fight so quickly in large part because of the rhetoric chosen. I’ve noticed an attempt by activists and politicians to soften it in recent years, but it’s too little too late.
 
DaddyGirl said:
Who’s “they”?

It’s interesting that when people present views that are the opposite of many on this forum, people here say they are “pushing” something or that they have an “agenda”.

And yet,when people here try to promote or publicize or voice their views and beliefs to society, they are “evangelizing” or “speaking the truth”.

.
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👍 Absolutely. As Catholics, that is our agenda! Matthew 28
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h Go, therefore,* and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit,
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i teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you.* And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”
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I was having a discussion with my sister about this and for once we both agree on something (she has left the Catholic Church and generally disagrees with everything the Church teaches).

I thought she would be in support of Jenner, but surprisingly we agreed.
I refuse to refer to Jenner as “her”; HE will never be a HER, no matter what. God made him a man. End of story.
He is making big bucks off of this. He’s already very wealthy. Maybe he could donate the new money to help secure counseling for young people who think they need to change genders. Maybe he already is.
It’s a total mess, but he could help them. I would applaud him if he would.
 
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